Does dubas remain GM if the leafs get bounced by Florida?

[ToneDog]

It's time for some fresh blood. Who takes over?

I'm thinking Treliving and Gallant or Laviolette.

 

[thewave]

I would expect a decision to be coming within a week max 2. They have 10 ufas and more importantly Marner and Mathews full NMC coming into effect in 6 weeks.

Should be done in the next 3 days.

This organization focused too much on being this "disney on ice', consultant, NGO firm
Say nice things, look good instead of being good

Absolutely, you're spot on about that. mlsE - That's a big E, Entertainment is there focus for sure.

 

[ToneDog]

I would expect a decision to be coming within a week max 2. They have 10 ufas and more importantly Marner and Mathews full NMC coming into effect in 6 weeks.

Matthews and Nylander's NMC in 6 weeks. Marner's in a year. Great work Kyle.

 

[A1LeafNation]

The good thing about Dubas is if he figures out a guy is not part of the solution, he gets rid of him. Most GMs double down on their mistakes.

Martin, Marleau, Zaitsev, Ritchie, Mrazek.

Walking away from Campbell, Andersen, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner at the correct times.

If hes not interested in changing the core 4, ok maybe time for a change, but history suggests he's not afraid to do it.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think the series win and his deadline moves give him enough rope for the brass to sit down and talk about what his vision is if he signs a new deal.

If he can lay out a proper course to retool I think he gets a chance. If he wants to run it back with the core, I think they’ll agree to part ways.

 

[fahad203]

But how do you change this team?

Do you fire Keefe? I would

Do you try to package Samsonov to Winnipeg and try to bring in Hellebyuck if he's available? That would be a BIG change.

What else can you do? I can't see them blowing up a team that's put up 225 points combined over the last 2 years.

Start with the coach. Right coach can do wonders for a team.

You can't say we got the most out of our players. That's what bothers everyone. Not that we lost. That our players didn't give it all, didn't lay everything on ice

You are going to have to get rid of one of top 4. They have been handicapping this team for last 5 years. Get some asset in return

I can bet you anything Auston isn't resigning here. He's already checkedout. This is going to be another Tavares case for us. Where he leaves with retaining any assets for Islanders

We are goign to have to make some difficult decisions.

This city lost Wendal Clark once. We lived through that and moved on. We got Mats Sundin in return. He became our face of the franchise

We need to make a similar trade with one of big 4. Get the next face of franchise

 

[ShaneFalco]

Maybe keep Dubas in the organization but turn over the reigns to someone else

 

[Lemontree]

The good thing about Dubas is if he figures out a guy is not part of the solution, he gets rid of him. Most GMs double down on their mistakes.

Martin, Marleau, Zaitsev, Ritchie, Mrazek.

Walking away from Campbell, Andersen, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner at the correct times.

If hes not interested in changing the core 4, ok maybe time for a change, but history suggests he's not afraid to do it.

KEEFE, KERFOOT & HOLL.

 

[ToneDog]

The good thing about Dubas is if he figures out a guy is not part of the solution, he gets rid of him. Most GMs double down on their mistakes.

Martin, Marleau, Zaitsev, Ritchie, Mrazek.

Walking away from Campbell, Andersen, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner at the correct times.

If hes not interested in changing the core 4, ok maybe time for a change, but history suggests he's not afraid to do it.

His mistake is betting everything on this core and sticking to it, even through a flat cap. All individually good but not greater than the sum of their parts. Fooled by regular season success 5 years straight. He's gotta go so we can get a fresh set of eyes in here with somebody who has no loyalty with any of the players and can make the hard decisions.

Maybe keep Dubas in the organization but turn over the reigns to someone else

I think he walks on his own. The rumours the Pens want him are too strong IMO.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

The good thing about Dubas is if he figures out a guy is not part of the solution, he gets rid of him. Most GMs double down on their mistakes.

Martin, Marleau, Zaitsev, Ritchie, Mrazek.

Walking away from Campbell, Andersen, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner at the correct times.

If hes not interested in changing the core 4, ok maybe time for a change, but history suggests he's not afraid to do it.

And it cost a lot to correct some of the mistakes. Marleau was a good addition but if he wanted to play for the Leafs he should have taken 3.5 - 4 mil. He was not worth 6 at that point. Tavares should have receive a max contract or a NTC not both.
He couldn't have predicted the flat cap so giving out 11 mil contracts was not terrible. But you can't give 3 of them.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The good thing about Dubas is if he figures out a guy is not part of the solution, he gets rid of him. Most GMs double down on their mistakes.

Martin, Marleau, Zaitsev, Ritchie, Mrazek.

Walking away from Campbell, Andersen, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner at the correct times.

If hes not interested in changing the core 4, ok maybe time for a change, but history suggests he's not afraid to do it.

I think he's too loyal and has more or less said he'd stake his career on them
The presser will be telling I think

 

[A1LeafNation]

KEEFE, KERFOOT & HOLL.

For 2m Holl is fine. Either Keefe felt he had no other options or overplayed him.

Out of Kapanen, Johnston, Kerfoot, Kerfoot was the only one who looks like a positive. Again, was it lack of options, or was Keefe over playing.

It all comes back to Keefe.

2021, 2022, 2023. Two years is too short. It's been 3 years, Keefe hasn't gotten us over the hump. The time to move on from Keefe is now, was premature last year imo.

His mistake is betting everything on this core and sticking to it, even through a flat cap. All individually good but not greater than the sum of their parts. Fooled by regular season success 5 years straight. He's gotta go so we can get a fresh set of eyes in here with somebody who has no loyalty with any of the players and can make the hard decisions.


I think he walks on his own. The rumours the Pens want him are too strong IMO.

It's been 5 years now so yeah. I like that he doubled down on the core. Most winning teams do that after years of failure. The time for change is now. If Dubas is not up for that, then yes we may need a new GM.

His mistake is betting everything on this core and sticking to it, even through a flat cap. All individually good but not greater than the sum of their parts. Fooled by regular season success 5 years straight. He's gotta go so we can get a fresh set of eyes in here with somebody who has no loyalty with any of the players and can make the hard decisions.


I think he walks on his own. The rumours the Pens want him are too strong IMO.

It's been 5 years now so yeah. I like that he doubled down on the core. Most winning teams do that after years of failure. The time for change is now. If Dubas is not up for that, then yes we may need a new GM.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The good thing about Dubas is if he figures out a guy is not part of the solution, he gets rid of him. Most GMs double down on their mistakes.

Martin, Marleau, Zaitsev, Ritchie, Mrazek.

Walking away from Campbell, Andersen, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner at the correct times.

If hes not interested in changing the core 4, ok maybe time for a change, but history suggests he's not afraid to do it.

Yes he's afraid and he's more than doubled down on mistakes. Don't forget what KD paid to move on from Marleau, Zait, Mrazek, etc. I don't mean to be hyper critical, but look where we are: 1 series win in 7 tries (combined with Lou).

 

[Metroid]

KEEFE, KERFOOT & HOLL.

Don't want any of those 3 coming back at all.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Yes he's afraid and he's more than doubled down on mistakes. Don't forget what KD paid to move on from Marleau, Zait, Mrazek, etc. I don't mean to be hyper critical, but look where we are: 1 series win in 7 tries (combined with Lou).

He's backed his core 4 guys. He overhauled pretty much everyone else amd changed the mix and bought them time.

I think Leafs lose trading the best player in the deal so I can understand not moving those 4 before.

One goal in the series tells you alot about 3 of those 4. I'll judge him if he can't move on now after seeing what we have all seen.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He may fix mistakes but let's not forget he wanted Foligno back. He signed Murray, he signed Simmonds for 2 years like he was some prize out there. The whole Holl thing. Mrazek - I think everyone knew Muzzin was on a huge decline.
To be fair he's done a lot of good things but it's just the wrong mix of core players and he doesn't seem willing to adjust

 

[Lemontree]

For 2m Holl is fine. Either Keefe felt he had no other options or overplayed him.

Out of Kapanen, Johnston, Kerfoot, Kerfoot was the only one who looks like a positive. Again, was it lack of options, or was Keefe over playing.

It all comes back to Keefe.

2021, 2022, 2023. Two years is too short. It's been 3 years, Keefe hasn't gotten us over the hump. The time to move on from Keefe is now, was premature last year imo.


It's been 5 years now so yeah. I like that he doubled down on the core. Most winning teams do that after years of failure. The time for change is now. If Dubas is not up for that, then yes we may need a new GM.


It's been 5 years now so yeah. I like that he doubled down on the core. Most winning teams do that after years of failure. The time for change is now. If Dubas is not up for that, then yes we may need a new GM.

No, Holl is not fine at $2M a year. He is a replacement level 7th Dman that should be paid league minimum. You are a cap strapped team.

Kerfoot is not a positive, he brings nothing to the hockey team that supports the core. Can't generate any offense himself, hardly converts any scoring opportunities that he is setup for and has no grit or forechecking abilities at a cap hit of $3.5M. You are a cap strapped team.

Murray, Holl and Kerfoot combine for $10.2M cap hit.

Woll, Schenn and Acciari combine for $2.25M cap hit. Acciari was available this past off-season and he mentioned that he was interested in signing with the Leafs but they didn't have room for him.

The edge work of the team needs to be identified and addressed in the off-season, Dubas doesn't do it and ships assets (draft picks) at the TDL to pickup the players that were available each off-season at reasonably cheap contracts.

 

[A1LeafNation]

No, Holl is not fine at $2M a year. He is a replacement level 7th Dman that should be paid league minimum. You are a cap strapped team.

Kerfoot is not a positive, he brings nothing to the hockey team that supports the core. Can't generate any offense himself, hardly converts any scoring opportunities that he is setup for and has no grit or forechecking abilities at a cap hit of $3.5M. You are a cap strapped team.

Murray, Holl and Kerfoot combine for $10.2M cap hit.

Woll, Schenn and Acciari combine for $2.25M cap hit. Acciari was available this past off-season and he mentioned that he was interested in signing with the Leafs but they didn't have room for him.

The edge work of the team needs to be identified and addressed in the off-season, Dubas doesn't do it and ships assets (draft picks) at the TDL to pickup the players that were available each off-season at reasonably cheap contracts.

Kerfoot overpaid yes, but still helps a team win. Holl at 2m is a 3rd pair RD and most of them cost that or more.

Regardless it's more the core 4 that are the problem not the rest of the roster.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I’ve criticized him in the past, this one isn’t on Dubas, this is on the team. I’d actually keep him, I think he’s finally starting to figure it out. His stars let him down, the pieces he added were mostly good.

But, he has to tell Shanny how he fundamentally changes this team, running it back isn’t an option.

Why keep him then? If he has to fundamentally change the team he built to appease his boss, why not get someone in who wouldn't have built the team that needs to be fundamentally changed?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

He's backed his core 4 guys. He overhauled pretty much everyone else amd changed the mix and bought them time.

I think Leafs lose trading the best player in the deal so I can understand not moving those 4 before.

One goal in the series tells you alot about 3 of those 4. I'll judge him if he can't move on now after seeing what we have all seen.

I see the reality much different, but I respect your opinion.

I see an inexperienced GM think he can re-invent managing an NHL team, and think that there's a new way to do things. He signed 4 forwards and allocated 50% of the cap to them. He thought opposing teams would be spending time in the penalty box while his team scored at will in the playoffs. He thought that skill and soft stick checking would be the way of the future in the playoffs. He felt he didn't need any toughness. He and Lou signed off on having 2 terrible mentors (Thornton and Marleu) for TOR's young talent. Finally when it was all not working so great he changed last deadline: Acciari, McCabe, Schenn, etc.

I did like a couple of things he did: Giordano, ROR, Schenn, Acciari, and Samsonov. Sadly none of these character players are our core. Who knows whether Dubas will be around to see what might become of keeping ROR, etc.

You can't blame Dubas for not trying, but his philosophy was completely off the mark.

 

[justashadowof]

This organization focused too much on being this "disney on ice', consultant, NGO firm
Say nice things, look good instead of being good

I'm going tread on touchy subjects here but you'd have thought that with all "doing the right things" that MLSE signals within the corporate community that is completely simpatico with the NHL's own social signalling in these regards, we would get a little bit of a fairer shake with the league. The league still seems to hate us.

On an unrelated topic, if someone suggests that some part-time inexperienced Leafs' executive should be our next GM, that's an insta-block.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I think the series win and his deadline moves give him enough rope for the brass to sit down and talk about what his vision is if he signs a new deal.

If he can lay out a proper course to retool I think he gets a chance. If he wants to run it back with the core, I think they’ll agree to part ways.

He repeatedly "bet his career" on the core 4. But we are so reluctant to take his word for it. We're trying to tell him that we didn't believe him and knew he was joking. He made a bet, but we're just giving him his money back. It's insulting to Kyle to be honest.

 

[Mess]

He gutted this team so he could pay the petit 4.

Looking at the goal scoring #'s of the Core 4

Those results indicate you were fortunate to win 1 of the 5 games when the other team only has to focus on 4 forwards, and your team can only manufacture 2 GF a game.

Tooooo much Cap $$$ in tooooo few players the #1 reason for Leafs demise again.

"We can and we will" should now be changed to "We tried and we failed" and lets move on from cap heavy strategy and build a more balanced team.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I see the reality much different, but I respect your opinion.

I see an inexperienced GM think he can re-invent managing an NHL team, and think that there's a new way to do things. He signed 4 forwards and allocated 50% of the cap to them. He thought opposing teams would be spending time in the penalty box while his team scored at will in the playoffs. He thought that skill and soft stick checking would be the way of the future in the playoffs. He felt he didn't need any toughness. He and Lou signed off on having 2 terrible mentors (Thornton and Marleu) for TOR's young talent. Finally when it was all not working so great he changed last deadline: Acciari, McCabe, Schenn, etc.

I did like a couple of things he did: Giordano, ROR, Schenn, Acciari, and Samsonov. Sadly none of these character players are our core. Who knows whether Dubas will be around to see what might become of keeping ROR, etc.

You can't blame Dubas for not trying, but his philosophy was completely off the mark.

And the infuriating thing is we had a bunch of fans here in HF that could see that 3 years ago. They could see the philosophy was deeply flawed. They could see that useful players were being let go.

Shame we had people here that could've saved ua

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Matthews and Nylander's NMC in 6 weeks. Marner's in a year. Great work Kyle.

Marner's nmc is in 6 weeks as well.

Kyle Dubas is the worst thing to happen to Toronto in the entire history of the city.