Does dubas remain GM if the leafs get bounced by Florida?

[francis246]

Personally I think he should. He's given the core every chance to win. He brought the horse to the water. He lowered the horses head to the water. He gave the horse a swift kick in the ass to get it closer to the water. The horse is just deciding to die of thirst.

This is why ultimately I see Dubas leaving, because there really isn’t much more he can do. He’s given these guys everything they could ask for. I think he’s too attached to the core and won’t be able to move any of them. So I think he’ll chalk it up to, he gave it a good 7 year run here in Toronto, time to try his luck elsewhere. Let’s be honest he has his pick between PIT and CGY. There’s a reason we haven’t heard squat from those two clubs, not even short listed candidates. That’s because Dubas is the guy they want.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think if Dubas is gone than Laurence Gilman is the logical successor. If they also fire Keefe would Gerard Gallant be a good choice?

As someone else pointed out... Gallant, despite success doesn't last long in organizations. Seems like a person to avoid.

 

[BallardEra]

This is why ultimately I see Dubas leaving, because there really isn’t much more he can do. He’s given these guys everything they could ask for. I think he’s too attached to the core and won’t be able to move any of them. So I think he’ll chalk it up to, he gave it a good 7 year run here in Toronto, time to try his luck elsewhere. Let’s be honest he has his pick between PIT and CGY. There’s a reason we haven’t heard squat from those two clubs, not even short listed candidates. That’s because Dubas is the guy they want.

Maybe the Sens too and if Dubas isn’t brought back it’s not like he got fired as he in the last year of his deal.

 

[LeafEgo]

I think it's funny when people he say he got everything handed to him on a platter but then blame those same players for no showing when it matters. He got handed a flawed core, no GM was going to make these guys win in the playoffs.

Sure they would. Matty will never be a Mack but throw him on the Canes and he'd be running rails with the rest of them consistently potting goals in the post season. Although not sure how much damage has been done by now.

Anderson looking to cruise into the ECF with a .930+, not bad.

 

[Antropovsky]

This is why ultimately I see Dubas leaving, because there really isn’t much more he can do. He’s given these guys everything they could ask for. I think he’s too attached to the core and won’t be able to move any of them. So I think he’ll chalk it up to, he gave it a good 7 year run here in Toronto, time to try his luck elsewhere. Let’s be honest he has his pick between PIT and CGY. There’s a reason we haven’t heard squat from those two clubs, not even short listed candidates. That’s because Dubas is the guy they want.

This team's failures fall squarely on his shoulders. He could've fired his coach, he could've shook up the core... He did nothing. Team's fire coaches for much much less than what Keefe has done here.

Gallant coached the Rangers for two seasons. The first season they reached round 3, the second tossed in the first round. His winning percentage those two years was .671% and .652% and he was still fired by rookie GM Chris drury.

 

[HolyCrap]

Didn’t one poster leave to become an Islanders fan when Lou left?

Lol. You would be correct.

 

[LeafEgo]

In his defense, it would have been hard for any GM not bet on all that physical talent maturing into a Cup-winner or at the very least some deep playoff runs.

Sure, but something like a Lou/Babs combo would have done it with a modicum of seriousness.

And probably have an extra 15M to spread without JT and the bloated contracts.

 

[LeafEgo]

Who cares where RoR ends up, he is no longer a game changer as seen from the Blues fall from contenders. You guys need to stop over rating the idea of him. Those days are gone.

It's weird this place wrote off Tavares but worship a guy who is worse than Tavares and looks even slower at this point of his career. He reminds me of the Jason Allison shootout highlight on TSN where the guys like "and in comes jason allison....slow as bread".

Provided there's an appropriate ask next year, hes no longer meant to be a game changer either. He's at the bottom of the list to burn and hopefully he sticks around to help the new management because there's a lot of work to do.

 

[Amadeus]

Mathieu Darche, Chris MacFarlane are some other candidates. Someone like Doug Wilson could also look for a challenge.

 

[Bomber0104]

My guess is the conflict started like this:

Shanahan: Build a winner
Dubas: My spreadsheet says I already did

And then Shanahan started forcing his hand during deadline week with the ROR, Schenn, McCabe trades. Dubas got upset and that's where the Pittsburgh smoke is coming from

Extremely similar to what I think as well, great post.

When Dubas was first being introduced to the suits of MLSE, Shanahan was on record coaching Dubas to never use the word luck around them.

I guess he didn't heed the advice but after all these years of disgraceful playoff failures, that's pretty much the go-to excuse for anyone defending Dubas at this point.

"Puck luck"

"Expected goals"

"High danger chances"

These are all just snake-oil catch-phrases designed to distract people from losing, and to try make you feel better about it.

Unfortunately for the snake-oil salespeople, Bell and Rogers happen to be run by a lot smarter people than you think (as in better than a Brock University sports management "degree") and when they set performance targets, there really isn't much grey area for luck and superstition.

 

[Ports]

He backed up the truck to pay five skilled but soft players 58% of the teams salary cap and built a great regular season team that can’t win in the playoffs especially when it counts. An experienced GM would have recognized that it wasn’t going to work 2-3 years ago and made the necessary adjustments. Any organization that expects to win a championship moves on from him. The next GM will have a huge challenge in righting the ship.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think if Dubas is gone than Laurence Gilman is the logical successor. If they also fire Keefe would Gerard Gallant be a good choice?

When Burke was turfed, we gave his understudy a couple years...

Maybe there's someone under Dubas that we can employ until the right person comes along. Prindham seems to understand the lay of the land here....

You don't need to find an immediate replacement right away and if Shanahan survives we know he has a network that he can create in an instant here.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Sure, but something like a Lou/Babs combo would have done it with a modicum of seriousness.

And probably have an extra 15M to spread without JT and the bloated contracts.

I think Lou would have also gone after JT. Shanahan and Babcock were reportedly fully supportive of signing him.

Maybe the other three would have signed for less, but I'm not convinced it would have been a lot less.

 

[LeafEgo]

I think Lou would have also gone after JT. Shanahan and Babcock were reportedly fully supportive of signing him.

Maybe the other three would have signed for less, but I'm not convinced it would have been a lot less.

Fair counter to the second point.

If that crew really would have been in on JT, and rushed the contender window, I suspect there would have been a realistic plan in place to compete in the first half of JT's contract.

They would have saved on the others no question, but you would also have to consider that they may not have all been kept. They were already being pressure tested.

 

[Da Mash]

Who cares where RoR ends up, he is no longer a game changer as seen from the Blues fall from contenders. You guys need to stop over rating the idea of him. Those days are gone.

It's weird this place wrote off Tavares but worship a guy who is worse than Tavares and looks even slower at this point of his career. He reminds me of the Jason Allison shootout highlight on TSN where the guys like "and in comes jason allison....slow as bread".

I agree…but I would take him back at a hometown discount

We did get slower

 

[The Masters]

This is why ultimately I see Dubas leaving, because there really isn’t much more he can do. He’s given these guys everything they could ask for. I think he’s too attached to the core and won’t be able to move any of them. So I think he’ll chalk it up to, he gave it a good 7 year run here in Toronto, time to try his luck elsewhere. Let’s be honest he has his pick between PIT and CGY. There’s a reason we haven’t heard squat from those two clubs, not even short listed candidates. That’s because Dubas is the guy they want.

bingo.

 

[rocketman588]

What are you talking about, Alex Anthopolous made amazing moves down the stretch to win his World Series. He parlayed prospects and picks into players that could help him win now. AA was a really good GM and has always been a great negotiator. Sucks that we lost him.



No no no, the Carolina AGM is who you have to try and get tbh

AA was significantly better at his job then Dubas was and people are forgetting that even he had to leave to become an AGM instead of going straight to Atlanta.

Dude built the last core and most of this one. Along with kinda ruining baseball for me because there will be nothing that matches how exciting those playoff runs were

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Conversely the Leafs had the Ballard years which showed the darker side of single ownership

For sure and I'm not saying it's always good; meddling ownership has pros and cons. I'm merely saying Dolan and co. canned Gallant after only 2 years where they had great regular season success due to this year's terrible RD1.

Philly ownership is a disastrous conglomerate scenario, as another example, and they clearly don't know what the hell they're doing either.

 

[ACC1224]

For sure and I'm not saying it's always good; meddling ownership has pros and cons. I'm merely saying Dolan and co. canned Gallant after only 2 years where they had great regular season success due to this year's terrible RD1.

Philly ownership is a disastrous conglomerate scenario, as another example, and they clearly don't know what the hell they're doing either.

Ed Snider owns the Flyers through his company but yes a disaster. The Knicks and Rangers are own by a publically traded company, MSG which Dolan is the Chairman.

MLSE has never shown a reluctance to allow moves if necessary for any of their teams.

IMO, single owners are worse than corporate for the most part.

 

[NMacrules]

I hope he does. You can't build a team giving most of your cap to 4 players. And Keefe needs to go too.

 

[Trapper]

Ed Snider owns the Flyers through his company but yes a disaster. The Knicks and Rangers are own by a publically traded company, MSG which Dolan is the Chairman.

MLSE has never shown a reluctance to allow moves if necessary for any of their teams.

IMO, single owners are worse than corporate for the most part.

Owners are like the core. You need the right ones. Some are cheap and all the talent leaves. Some bud in to much and make things worse. It’s a fine line. The right management, the right core, if it was an exact science I’d teach it and be a billionaire.

 

[ACC1224]

Owners are like the core. You need the right ones. Some are cheap and all the talent leaves. Some bud in to much and make things worse. It’s a fine line. The right management, the right core, if it was an exact science I’d teach it and be a billionaire.

IMO, the smart ones just let the hockey people run things and just sit back and pay the bills.

 

[rocketman588]

Extremely similar to what I think as well, great post.

When Dubas was first being introduced to the suits of MLSE, Shanahan was on record coaching Dubas to never use the word luck around them.

I guess he didn't heed the advice but after all these years of disgraceful playoff failures, that's pretty much the go-to excuse for anyone defending Dubas at this point.

"Puck luck"

"Expected goals"

"High danger chances"

These are all just snake-oil catch-phrases designed to distract people from losing, and to try make you feel better about it.

Unfortunately for the snake-oil salespeople, Bell and Rogers happen to be run by a lot smarter people than you think (as in better than a Brock University sports management "degree") and when they set performance targets, there really isn't much grey area for luck and superstition.

The only real rumor I heard was that a knies and picks for Hagel and flower deal got axed. Which doesn't seem that bad to me.

Maybe having to get rid of Sandin for a 1 also who knows. Not like Keefe would have played him anyways however

I think Dubas has a lot more power then is let on. His entire front office are people that he has hand picked some of it is his boys in the media trying to make excuses for him

 

[thewave]

IMO, the smart ones just let the hockey people run things and just sit back and pay the bills.

Ownership needs to know when guys like Shanny are messing up. I would have intervened on Dubas in the first place. Too much risk.

 

[IPS]

If Dubas does get another job immediately after Toronto boots him - then good for him. I'll never hate on another man trying to make a living.

The funny and ironic thing in all of that was back in 2019 people were insistent that Babcock would be immediately hired somewhere after being fired and Dubas would never get another job in the big leagues. Might turn out to be the exact opposite.

Who cares where RoR ends up, he is no longer a game changer as seen from the Blues fall from contenders. You guys need to stop over rating the idea of him. Those days are gone.

It's weird this place wrote off Tavares but worship a guy who is worse than Tavares and looks even slower at this point of his career. He reminds me of the Jason Allison shootout highlight on TSN where the guys like "and in comes jason allison....slow as bread".

I think you're off the mark here - ROR - although not every impressive this round, still looks to make way more of an impact shift to shift than Tavares.

I've slammed Marner a lot but Tavares has probably been worst TBH.