Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[diceman934]

So youre clinging to a fictional number that has no impact what so ever on the amount Nylander is paid or the cap hit against the team.

The fictional number is the one you are presenting as he is paid 7.5 for every year except for this year as his pay was prorated for the time he missed for this season. Same as if I had a job that paid me $100,000 a year but I started 3 months into the year. I still make $100,000. Just not in the first year as I missed 3 months.

 

[Dreakmur]

I get it, but if thats not the amount that he is being paid, nor is it his cap hit, why would that number matter?

It does amount to being paid. He is being paid 7.5 million per season. It is only due to odd contract rules that his cap hit does not reflect his salary.

 

[Trapper]

It does amount to being paid. He is being paid 7.5 million per season. It is only due to odd contract rules that his cap hit does not reflect his salary.

It’s the manipulation of the signing bonus.
Yes if you take 6.9 x 6 you get the 41.
However, with bonuses, Nylander is being paid 10.21 this year. So 10.21 + 5x(6.97), you get 45.
If you broke 45 down over 6 years, you get 7.5.
If I’m the agent for Marner, I’m not looking at cap, I’m looking at salary + bonus money to start. My client is never getting anything less than 7.5. Although that doesn’t matter anymore. The price just keeps going up.

 

[The Podium]

The fictional number is the one you are presenting as he is paid 7.5 for every year except for this year as his pay was prorated for the time he missed for this season. Same as if I had a job that paid me $100,000 a year but I started 3 months into the year. I still make $100,000. Just not in the first year as I missed 3 months.

If your salary was 100k but you missed 3 months and only made 75k you would make 75k and your employer would claim that they paid you 75k to the CRA.

If you employer wanted to pay you 500k per year over 5 years, but you were only able to work for 4 years and 9 months, then your salary would be 105k (with 25k forfeited due to time missed) over that time to reflect the time missed.

It does amount to being paid. He is being paid 7.5 million per season. It is only due to odd contract rules that his cap hit does not reflect his salary.

The Leafs number was 6.9 million. It wasnt 7.5 million. They used the odd contract rule to adjust for the time missed. It is really not a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Dreakmur]

The Leafs number was 6.9 million. It wasnt 7.5 million. They used the odd contract rule to adjust for the time missed. It is really not a hard concept to grasp.

You're looking at his hit against the salary cap, which is 6,962,366.

I'm looking at his actual salary, which is 7,500,000.

I agree that it shouldn't be hard to understand....

 

[The Podium]

You're looking at his hit against the salary cap, which is 6,962,366.

I'm looking at his actual salary, which is 7,500,000.

I agree that it shouldn't be hard to understand....

His salary is 7.5 million, he is paid 6.9 million, his cap hit is 6.9 million

Thus 7.5 is insignificant

 

[Dreakmur]

His salary is 7.5 million, he is paid 6.9 million, his cap hit is 6.9 million

He is paid 7.5 per season. He just ends up working like 5.5 seasons instead of the full 6 in the contract.

Thus 7.5 is insignificant

It's insignificant for the cap, yes. It is not insignificant when Marner and Matthews and Kapanen look at his actual salary... which is 7.5

 

[The Podium]

He is paid 7.5 per season. He just ends up working like 5.5 seasons instead of the full 6 in the contract.



It's insignificant for the cap, yes. It is not insignificant when Marner and Matthews and Kapanen look at his actual salary... which is 7.5

As soon as he signed there was a quote from an agent saying something along the lines of “we all know it’s not really a 7.5 million contract”. However, I don’t feel like digging through hundreds of TSN articles on the subject to find it so well agree to disagree.

 

[Dreakmur]

As soon as he signed there was a quote from an agent saying something along the lines of “we all know it’s not really a 7.5 million contract”. However, I don’t feel like digging through hundreds of TSN articles on the subject to find it so well agree to disagree.

The agent can say what he likes. The actual numbers are irrefutable.

 

[The Podium]

The agent can say what he likes. The actual numbers are irrefutable.

Well Dubas can just speak in total dollars payable, and those actual numbers are irrefutable.

“We are paying Nyalander 41.4 million over 6 years so Marner you deserve 68 million over 8 years”

 

[Dreakmur]

Well Dubas can just speak in total dollars payable, and those actual numbers are irrefutable.

“We are paying Nyalander 41.4 million over 6 years so Marner you deserve 68 million over 8 years”

And Marner's agent will say, Nylander didn't play a full 6 years.... let's get back together on December 1st.....

 

[hector morrison]

How anyone can call what happened with Willy a win for Dubas is laughable. He couldn't get that done at the beginning of the season at that price? Under his watch, Nylander broke a record for holdout in the cap era. And we overpaid him (debatable part of this) But the damage that has done with the 2 more important negotiations around the corner?

Dubas folded. And allowed a player to disrespect the team in the process. AM and Marners agent smell blood. He's gonna get pressed sooo hard. Cause he's already showed he'll fold.

It's bad imho

Interesting...i view it completely different than you. Sounds like you don't like Kyle or something. It takes two to tango and you weren't at the dance!

 

[Buds17]

That's exactly how I see it as well.

Dubas was stuck between a rock and a hard place with the Nylander negotiation.

No other team would have traded a premium to deal with a difficult negotiation in Nylander. The same fans complaining about the contract would also be upset if Nylander brought back a crappy trade return or sat out all season.

So instead Dubas simply got a deal done and front loaded the heck out of it. That way after Nylander collects his 8.3M bonus he will have a lot of trade value and despite Nylander's comments he will be moved.

I can see how the contract structure gives Nylander a lot of trade value, but I'm not necessarily convinced he'll be the one moved. Of course, I don't know how tight the team's cap situation will be, or how much of a roster shakeup Dubas might look to make. There are probably about a handful of Leafs I'd put ahead of him in the "least likely to be traded" category.

I'm not concerned with the comment, only the quality of any trade that is potentially made.

 

[The Podium]

And Marner's agent will say, Nylander didn't play a full 6 years.... let's get back together on December 1st.....

To which Dubas will say we are still offering 68 million over 8 years. However, now that it’s Dec 1st, we can offer you 68 million over 8 years but your recorded salary will be 73.4 despite that not being reflected in your pay or cap hit.

 

[Dreakmur]

To which Dubas will say we are still offering 68 million over 8 years. However, now that it’s Dec 1st, we can offer you 68 million over 8 years but your recorded salary will be 73.4 despite that not being reflected in your pay or cap hit.

He caved on Nylander. You really think he'll hold firm on a real core player?

 

[The Podium]

He caved on Nylander. You really think he'll hold firm on a real core player?

That’s a different argument.

Nylanders contract is 6.9x6

 

[Dreakmur]

That’s a different argument

I guess we'll revisit the other argument once you learn how fractions work.

 

[drewjenks]

I don’t have faith in Dubas, in any aspect of being a GM. Tavares wanted to come to Toronto. Anyone could’ve brought him in. He has had a poor draft, did nothing in FA period besides Tavares, got rid of the perfect backup goalie for trash, got bent over in Nylander deal, looks like a clown in the media.

This team needs a lot of work to get over the top IE: deadline deals. He will probably get worked over in trades next. The best thing that could happen to the organization is broom Shanny and Dubas and hand the keys to Stevie Y. This is year 5 for Shanny. 5 years without a playoff win really should be enough to get him fired.

I lost interest after reading "he had a poor draft".

It's impossible to judge the 2018 draft at this point. What you should have said is "I would have drafted different players & I think I'm a better scout than everyone working for the Leafs".

 

[LeafingTheWay]

It's insignificant for the cap, yes. It is not insignificant when Marner and Matthews and Kapanen look at his actual salary... which is 7.5

Marner apparently asked for 9M in the offseason before any of this nonsense began. They wanted to do tbe contract in 2019 summer, but still. Take that in. If Marner wanted 9M after a 69 pt season with no PK time and a very hot PP, why wouldn't 6.9 be fair for Willy? I would've been pissed if I was Willy at anything less than what he signed for too.

Btw guys, his caphit for first year is 10.2ish and the remaining 5 years is 6.9ish.

 

[The Podium]

I guess we'll revisit the other argument once you learn how fractions work.

You had no response to my last post, I proved to you that a 6.9x6 contract at the start of the season is equal to a 6.9x6 contract on December 1st despite the fictional 7.5 mill salary that isn’t reflected in pay or cap hit.

 

[drewjenks]

Marner on't get a cap hit higher than 10 million imo.

My opinion agrees with your opinion.

 

[Dreakmur]

You had no response to my last post, I proved to you that a 6.9x6 contract at the start of the season is equal to a 6.9x6 contract on December 1st despite the fictional 7.5 mill salary that isn’t reflected in pay or cap hit.

You still don’t seem to understand that his salary and his cap hit are different. Until you figure that out, I may as well have this conversation with a house plant.

Do you have a job where you receive a pay check? I really think that would help move this along.

 

[Dreakmur]

Btw guys, his caphit for first year is 10.2ish and the remaining 5 years is 6.9ish.

We’re not talking salary cap, we’re talking take home pay, of which Nylander gets 7.5.

 

[The Podium]

You still don’t seem to understand that his salary and his cap hit are different. Until you figure that out, I may as well have this conversation with a house plant.

Do you have a job where you receive a pay check? I really think that would help move this along.

I understand salary, I also understand that salary is a concept and pay is tangible which you seem to be missing.

His salary is 7.5 million. Agreed. That equals 45 million over the course of 6 years. Agreed.

Now, what I’m arguing, and what players actually care about, is he is being paid 6.9 million per year, or 41.4 million over the course of 6 years.

His cap hit, after this season , is 6.9 million per season.

So from the players perspective he is getting 6.9 million in real dollars per year.

From the team’s perspective, they’re on the hook for 6.9 million per year (after this season).

From the record keeping perspective, which matters to literally no one, his salary is 7.5 million.

And 3.6 million of forfeited money is never exchanged.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Marner apparently asked for 9M in the offseason before any of this nonsense began. They wanted to do tbe contract in 2019 summer, but still. Take that in. If Marner wanted 9M after a 69 pt season with no PK time and a very hot PP, why wouldn't 6.9 be fair for Willy? I would've been pissed if I was Willy at anything less than what he signed for too.

Btw guys, his caphit for first year is 10.2ish and the remaining 5 years is 6.9ish.

What if Marner scores 100 points and signs for $9.5 million? That's what Nikita Kucherov got from Tampa Bay after he had 100 points last season and I think it would be the best comparable Dubas can use.