Do you think this team is better or worse going into next season?

[notDatsyuk]

I want 3 lines Nylander, Mathews and Marner drive their own lines.

We really have only two line drivers - Matthews and Nylander.

The weird thing is how many posters want to put Nylander on the third line.

 

[Roo]

We really have only two line drivers - Matthews and Nylander.

The weird thing is how many posters want to put Nylander on the third line.

They just want to balance out the scoring, because Marner can 100% drive his own line... he's already proven this.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Analysts expose “major red flags” in Maple Leafs' offseason​

Are the Leafs really any better than last season?

The Toronto Maple Leafs faced another frustrating early exit in the Stanley Cup Playoffs, once again being eliminated by the rival Boston Bruins in the opening round. Since 2004, the Leafs have advanced to Round 2 only once, a surprising statistic given the team's talent.

But how much better are they heading into the 2024-25 season? According to Nick Alberga of Leafs Morning Take, there's really not much difference given the fact that the nucleus of the team is the same.

"Nothing's really changed," he said. "I mean, you could tell me there's been change. There has been, but it's always the same thing. When you have the same nucleus, it's going to be the same results in my world."

Former NHL goaltender Carter Hutton echoed Alberga's sentiments, and also went back to Toronto's 2023 Round 1 series victory over the Tampa Bay Lightning in what was a back-and-forth affair that easily could have ended differently.

"You can't get into the playoffs, it wanes every year. Last year, we looked back on winning a first-round against Tampa where realistically they weren't that great, you know, like they could have easily lost that series just as well as they won it," Hutton said.

"And then just to get whacked by the Panthers this year, just to get whacked by the Bruins. They go to seven, but they can't score, especially when your team is built to score and you can't score. There are a lot of red flags there."

Hutton concluded his comments with stating that the Leafs are essentially practicing insanity by not making any meaningful changes and yet expecting different results.

"So I think as a fan now and as an analyst on the other side, something's got to change," he said. "It obviously hasn't. And again, it's insanity. I agree. I think you're hitting the nail on the head."

So basically the same - the core four are still here so there's been no big change.

I'm not sure why that's a red flag for this offseason - it's been the same for years, and we pretty much knew it wasn't going to change until next year.

 

[Racer88]

At this point, who is moving a C though? There really aren't a surplus of them available in the league. It's going to be Domi/Holmberg/Minten who fills that spot.

Tyler Johnson is still available as a UFA though... he's looking to move to a team that will make the playoffs, and he'd likely take a healthy pay cut. I'd reach out and find out what the ask is.


Design a system that maximizes what you get out of round pegs.

Let’s hope that happens

 

[Racer88]

So basically the same - the core four are still here so there's been no big change.

I'm not sure why that's a red flag for this offseason - it's been the same for years, and we pretty much knew it wasn't going to change until next year.

The only red flag is it’s starting to look like Shanny and the new guy Pelley are full of Sh#t when it comes to their presser awhile ago……everything on the table my a#s. It’s looking like run it again, business as usual. Total joke they are

Buy a sander.

lol. Hopefully Berube is that sander

 

[banks]

The only red flag is it’s starting to look like Shanny and the new guy Pelley are full of Sh#t when it comes to their presser awhile ago……everything on the table my a#s. It’s looking like run it again, business as usual. Total joke they are

I can't help but agree with this. I know it's not easy to trade a superstar, because it's not a move you want to screw up. But they've changed everything you can change except for the core of the team, and the fans have been screaming for it for a while now. It's almost mind boggling that they haven't traded any of the core 4.

I don't even care which one of them it is anymore. I'm a fan of all 4 on their own. But a change unquestionably needs to be made. Replacing Boosh and Bertuzzi with Tavev and OEL isn't enough of a change to make a real difference.

 

[ToneDog]

Maybe but what do you do when you have 11 million dollar round pegs when what you really need are square pegs.

Correct answer is simple, you trade round pegs for square pegs.

 

[Nineteen67]

The JT cap will already be accounted for in the Woll, Knies, and McCabe extensions. Those 3 extensions probably come out, combined, to more than the Tavares contract.

So, really, you have the Marner space (assuming no extension) and the cap going up, to potentially fill out a significant number of holes. That's massively problematic.

I get that, but that would be considered using JTs cap wisely. But I was reminded that McCabe already makes 4 million with 2 million retained so he might price himself off the team.

 

[HolyCrap]

What good is making the playoffs only to lose in round #1? The goal is to win the SC. To win the SC you need to have a strong line #3 and you need to be able to check. As of now, we have neither. I am assuming Woll/Stolarz will give us adequate goaltending which is not a gimme.

Unless Berube can pull a rabbit out of his ass, this team is not close IMO.

I will watch every game with extreme interest if there was a possibility of Berube pulling a rabbit out of his ass. That would be much more entertaining than an another first round exit.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Even if we agree the team has gotten better (I don't think so), it's still not even close to a cup contender.

It's a waste of a year.

And on the edge of becoming a waste of a decade if they re-sign Marner + JT.

 

[Fogelhund]

I can't help but agree with this. I know it's not easy to trade a superstar, because it's not a move you want to screw up. But they've changed everything you can change except for the core of the team, and the fans have been screaming for it for a while now. It's almost mind boggling that they haven't traded any of the core 4.

I don't even care which one of them it is anymore. I'm a fan of all 4 on their own. But a change unquestionably needs to be made. Replacing Boosh and Bertuzzi with Tavev and OEL isn't enough of a change to make a real difference.

The only red flag is it’s starting to look like Shanny and the new guy Pelley are full of Sh#t when it comes to their presser awhile ago……everything on the table my a#s. It’s looking like run it again, business as usual. Total joke they are


lol. Hopefully Berube is that sander

Considering changes to the core 4, and exploring all options available, doesn't guarantee a deal is there that is beneficial to the organization.

That's the thing... us fans have no idea what is happening behind the scenes, what discussions happen, and what conversations are had between other GMs. The Media offered some suggestions of discussions that might have happened, teams that were talked to, but that is partial information, and misses at least half of the conversations that probably happened.

While it's easy in our fantasy world, to propose changes, you need other teams, and often other players to agree to such moves. If a deal couldn't be found to improve the team, then you don't make a trade. Just because nothing ended up happening, doesn't mean it wasn't explored... and the reality is, you don't have a clue... but you have pouted that you didn't get the changes you wanted, and made accusations about something you know little about.

""

 

[ToneDog]

I will watch every game with extreme interest if there was a possibility of Berube pulling a rabbit out of his ass. That would be much more entertaining than an another first round exit.

Honestly I am so bored with the ice capades. Was so happy to watch our foot soldiers battle the Bruins tooth and nail, hitting them at every opportunity and pushing back. Then 3 core stooges looked disinterested in game #7 OT and Pasta sent them to the golf course and cottages.

 

[Nineteen67]

Oh …I totally agree we have too much talent to miss playoffs. I was just throwing it out there that if we do and devils make it….

How will this board and TO media react?

I can’t see NJD missing the playoffs if Ullmark is even half-decent. I wouldn't be surprised if they get the 1 seed in the Metro. In the playoffs, they’ll be ousted early.

 

[Nineteen67]

Considering changes to the core 4, and exploring all options available, doesn't guarantee a deal is there that is beneficial to the organization.

That's the thing... us fans have no idea what is happening behind the scenes, what discussions happen, and what conversations are had between other GMs. The Media offered some suggestions of discussions that might have happened, teams that were talked to, but that is partial information, and misses at least half of the conversations that probably happened.

While it's easy in our fantasy world, to propose changes, you need other teams, and often other players to agree to such moves. If a deal couldn't be found to improve the team, then you don't make a trade. Just because nothing ended up happening, doesn't mean it wasn't explored... and the reality is, you don't have a clue... but you have pouted that you didn't get the changes you wanted, and made accusations about something you know little about.

""

We don’t know the entire situation, however, the Leafs made the mistake of saying there would be changes, in fact they waited until Thursday to have management address the media so Pelley could be available to tell us they weren’t in the business of selling jerseys.

If the Leafs were seriously looking to move one of the core, it would get done, or at the very least the media would catch wind of any conversations, but instead all we heard was Marner is staying.

 

[Fogelhund]

We don’t know the entire situation, however, the Leafs made the mistake of saying there would be changes, in fact they waited until Thursday to have management address the media so Pelley could be available to tell us they weren’t in the business of selling jerseys.

If the Leafs were seriously looking to move one of the core, it would get done, or at the very least the media would catch wind of any conversations, but instead all we heard was Marner is staying.

Coach changed. Coaching staff mostly changed. Scouting changes. Half of the D changed.

Really, those always were going to be the main difference making changes.

But Marner!!!

 

[Racer88]

Correct answer is simple, you trade round pegs for square pegs.

I like the way you think but I’m not at all confident that this is going to happen

 

[Racer88]

Coach changed. Coaching staff mostly changed. Scouting changes. Half of the D changed.

Really, those always were going to be the main difference making changes.

But Marner!!!

I guess we will have to wait and see. If they give Marner an extension for his ridiculous ask then we know they are full of BS and it was all smoke and mirror to calm fans that are sick and tired of losing for decades and especially with this very unlikable core

 

[Donnie740]

I want 3 lines Nylander, Mathews and Marner drive their own lines.

That’s a terrible idea because then you’re just diluting the offensive firepower.

Much better to have two solid scoring lines.

The third line should be a lockdown defensive checking line that can shut down the opposing team’s #1 line.

The fourth line is the crash line with a fighter and a couple of young guys who bring energy for a change of tempo. Ideally, the young guys on the 4th line develop into 1st and 2nd line guys. But in the meantime, while they’re still on the 4th line that’s a huge advantage to have.

 

[seanlinden]

OEL is a 100% an upgrade on Klingberg because OEL can actually step on the ice, that automatically makes him an upgrade

it doesn't matter what Klingberg was expected to be because he didn't exist for 80% of the year, he literally got on a plane and never played again, a plane ended his seas, and probably his career.

I'm not even making fun of it, even though I know it reads that way but that's what happened.

My point is that it's not really "fair" to compare end of last year, to beginning of this year. Every team will have injuries and poor play come up with somebody... replacing the $5m defenceman that grossly underperfomed (Brodie) or $4m defenceman that was injured all year (Klingberg) is an easy way to see improvement; but doesn't really effectively consider that even if Tanev/OEL fit in great, there's a decent chance somebody else is going to have a rough year.

Like another poster mentioned, our group up front is almost certainly worse. Easton Cowan, Bobby McMann and Pontus Holmberg are not Tyler Bertuzzi. Matthew Knies should develop, but Tavares continues to decline.

Our D wasn't "healthy" last year, and if they are "healthy" this year, then they should be better, but they're also older so that may mean they're not healthy.

As for goaltending, going into last season Sammy/Woll seemed to be a stronger tandem than Woll/Stolarz.

 

[ACC1224]

Where does this “Marners ask” stuff come from? As far as we know they haven’t started negotiations yet.

 

[Racer88]

Where does this “Marners ask” stuff come from? As far as we know they haven’t started negotiations yet.

It just follows the natural progression of his contracts he certainly isn’t going to take less then now and I doubt he will take less then Willy so common sense dictates he will want to be in the 12’s.
Not everything has to be spelled out

 

[Fogelhund]

I guess we will have to wait and see. If they give Marner an extension for his ridiculous ask then we know they are full of BS and it was all smoke and mirror to calm fans that are sick and tired of losing for decades and especially with this very unlikable core

We won't know they are full of BS. What we will know, is that given what they know, and what they believe they could have traded Marner for... that it wasn't worth trading him... that they believe extending Marner is better than letting him walk, or making the trades that are available.

I've proposed many trades to move Marner, and I would have liked to do so... but I live in a fantasy world, and don't know if my trades were possible. I'd like change too.. but then, if we make trades that make this team LESS likely to achieve our goals, that doesn't make the team more likable. We all want the same thing... management too.. everyone wants to win. We probably have differing opinions on how to make that happen though. I can suggest trades, you can suggest trades, only management knows if those are possible...

Let's be honest... this has been a very successful regular season franchise... we aren't suffering like Buffalo who hasn't made the playoffs for a decade, or Senators fans... we've had a good regular season team to cheer for. But, the expectations are indeed much higher... we want playoff success...

What would be entirely accurate, without the accusations... is if they fail to achieve success, is that management, coaching and players weren't good enough.... that would be accurate... they've failed to deliver the stated goals...and at some point.... hopefully Shanahan down get replaced to try and achieve those goals. How many years have we said that?

While the core is unlikable.... it's also one of the most talented cores assembled anywhere... they just don't seem to play their best, or try hard enough when it matters.... If somehow, you get them to play right... you've got a winner, and that's probably what Berube is asking for... his chance to mould these guys into winners... that's understandable, even if we are impatient for change.

 

[A1LeafNation]

We really have only two line drivers - Matthews and Nylander.

The weird thing is how many posters want to put Nylander on the third line.

Why not...and make 22m drive their own line

Knies Matthews Jarnkrok
Robertson Tavares Marner
McMann Domi Nylander

 

[DarkKnight]

The blue line is better, but It's not a cup calibre blueline, especially with how our offence dies in the playoffs

we have a solid #1 in Rielly, two top4 dman in McCabe and Tanev, and 3 bottom pairers in OEL, Liljegren, and Benoit.

Liljegren will once again shine against the chicago's and philly's but come Boston or Florida, he will be a morale boost for them. Honestly I have 0 faith in Liljegren to figure playoff hockey out, he is tooooooooooo soft and forgets how to play any semblence of offence

Benoit is limited within his skillset, a bruising bottom pairer but not really a quality top 4 guy and OEL is coming off of playing a sheltered role on the best defensive team in the league, I am a bit skeptical of how he will do with the team

Ideally you'd have gotten a Skjei or Pesche at their respective cap hits (probably a dream) instead of liljegren, and then I'd have more confidence in the team.

Athletic ranked us 8th for most improved this offseason. I'm sure we will add a D man at the deadline as well.

 

[Nineteen67]

Coach changed. Coaching staff mostly changed. Scouting changes. Half of the D changed.

Really, those always were going to be the main difference making changes.

But Marner!!!

That’s not what they said in the press conference when ask specifically about players. They didn’t need Pelley to tell us that they were changing the coaches and scouting staff.

Marner was singled out because of his contract situation and because it was on the heels of another absolutely horrendous playoff performance by him. The days after series, 100% of the people that watched knew he wasn’t good enough.

Another big change, I suppose, is they’re going to run it back , not with 46 or 48% of the cap going to four forwards, but this time with 53%.