Do you think this team is better or worse going into next season?

[thewave]

I want 3 lines Nylander, Mathews and Marner drive their own lines.

Marner cant drive a line. He gets targeted and doesn't have the speed. Once he is in isolation in the PO you can skip the dishes and go straight to flipping burgers over the boards.

 

[Nineteen67]

Going INTO last season we are worse at forward and goaltending and better on D.

Were the same forward group minus Bertuzzi. Not sure how that can even be argued.

Our G going into last year was Woll and a 919 Sammy who won a playoff round. That is definitively better than what we have now. The goalies this year could shake out much worse than they did last year but GOING IN last year was better.

Our D is better but we likely handicapped our future for it.

f***ing team has no chance unless by some divine miracle the fraud 4 decide to play like they’re getting paid 46.5 f***ing million dollars.

Last year was a write off year from the get go, and a show me year for a few guys. One of those guys was Samsonov, who was dreadful. This year Woll and Stolarz are “trying out” and hopefully both are good enough to stick around and can help them go on a run in couple of years.

 

[Tak7]

Last year was a write off year from the get go, and a show me year for a few guys. One of those guys was Samsonov, who was dreadful. This year Woll and Stolarz are “trying out” and hopefully both are good enough to stick around and can help them go on a run in couple of years.

This year is a write-off as well - they'll convince themselves that more cap flexibility is on the way with big money coming off the books & that next summer will be the time to strike (ignoring the fact that much of the money coming off the books has already either been spent on extensions [Woll] or will be spent on guys needing new deals [Knies, McCabe])

It's a punt year. In year 9 of Matthews, and year 1 of the final 4 years you're guaranteed to have him.

What an unbelievably mismanaged situation from start to inevitable end

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Last year was a write off year from the get go, and a show me year for a few guys. One of those guys was Samsonov, who was dreadful. This year Woll and Stolarz are “trying out” and hopefully both are good enough to stick around and can help them go on a run in couple of years.

Hopefully. I don't see how Stolarz is any more hopeful than Sammy was last year though. Imo Woll is the only difference maker of the three. If he's healthy we have a chance (of getting out of the first round)

 

[Peasy]

This year is a write-off as well - they'll convince themselves that more cap flexibility is on the way with big money coming off the books & that next summer will be the time to strike (ignoring the fact that much of the money coming off the books has already either been spent on extensions [Woll] or will be spent on guys needing new deals [Knies, McCabe])

It's a punt year. In year 9 of Matthews, and year 1 of the final 4 years you're guaranteed to have him.

What an unbelievably mismanaged situation from start to inevitable end

People should study and make documentaries about how badly the Leafs have fumbled the ball all the way since drafting Matthews. Most talented core in the franchises history, and they will accomplish nothing. They are next level pathetic with their playoff performances, no team comes close to them.

 

[Canadian Finn]

I've not yet met a single fan who has an ounce of excitement (or hope) for the upcoming season.

 

[Nineteen67]

This year is a write-off as well - they'll convince themselves that more cap flexibility is on the way with big money coming off the books & that next summer will be the time to strike (ignoring the fact that much of the money coming off the books has already either been spent on extensions [Woll] or will be spent on guys needing new deals [Knies, McCabe])

It's a punt year. In year 9 of Matthews, and year 1 of the final 4 years you're guaranteed to have him.

What an unbelievably mismanaged situation from start to inevitable end

Assuming they’re mostly done with the roster, they have to get through this season and then try to take a run the next two years using the Marner and JT cap space wisely. I don’t know if that’s possible with current management group. I anticipate this is Shanahan’s last season, and if it is, hopefully they let him go early enough in the season so they can replace him, and possibly the a GM, so they’re not scrambling next June.

 

[Nineteen67]

Hopefully. I don't see how Stolarz is any more hopeful than Sammy was last year though. Imo Woll is the only difference maker of the three. If he's healthy we have a chance (of getting out of the first round)

They’re both worth taking a chance on and if one becomes a dependable NHL goalie, then they can check that off the list. Woll shows great potential and if he remains healthy that’s a big piece of the puzzle they don’t have to find.

 

[Nineteen67]

People should study and make documentaries about how badly the Leafs have fumbled the ball all the way since drafting Matthews. Most talented core in the franchises history, and they will accomplish nothing. They are next level pathetic with their playoff performances, no team comes close to them.

I hear they’re the most talented, but I don’t see that they’re the most talented.

 

[Stephen]

Berube is the biggest X factor.
I personally don't believe Keefe was getting the most possible out of this group.
I saw what happened to both EDM and VAN last season and it felt like I was watching totally different teams with different work-rates/structure then before.
I would guess that under Berube, we will see a more consistent intensity and commitment to winning then previously.

They might end up in a very similar place after 82 games but I think they get there differently, and I think we have to see more behavioural difference with the Big 4. It’s got to look more urgent, the trap games have to be taken more workmanlike. The now shows can’t happen and the special teams can’t look like a lackadaisical skills practice.

 

[NJG]

Dude quit it with your projection. What about this post is complaining?



Stating an opinion is not complaining no matter how much you wanna try and tone police people. I'm not even saying anything about the core 4 changing or anything Tre can do about it, you're literally just putting these words in my mouth cause you're triggered my opinion is different than yours.

How the hell do people get through everyday life being this sensitive about everything?

You stated an "opinion" which was because 4 players are still here so it's going to be the same results... Which is a stupid opinion when you think about it. Call it an "opinion" all you want you we're complaining... very clearly. I stated my opinion to your "opinion" if you don't like people replying to your "opinion" then don't post an "opinion".

 

[NJG]

Brodie from 3-4 seasons ago was very very good

Still wasn't on Tanev's level.

 

[IPS]

You stated an "opinion" which was because 4 players are still here so it's going to be the same results... Which is a stupid opinion when you think about it.

A stupid opinion?

Are you forgetting that I'm the one who has 8 years of evidence backing me up? Should probably know your place in this argument. The one undeniable constant result of this cap structure is early exits.

I stated my opinion to your "opinion" if you don't like people replying to your "opinion" then don't post an "opinion".

Lol your "opinion" was putting words in my mouth, which you didn't address for an obvious reason.

And why are you trying to project again? YOU are the one who replied to ME, not the other way around.

 

[thusk]

They might end up in a very similar place after 82 games but I think they get there differently, and I think we have to see more behavioural difference with the Big 4. It’s got to look more urgent, the trap games have to be taken more workmanlike. The now shows can’t happen and the special teams can’t look like a lackadaisical skills practice.

Berube is the biggest X factor.
I personally don't believe Keefe was getting the most possible out of this group.
I saw what happened to both EDM and VAN last season and it felt like I was watching totally different teams with different work-rates/structure then before.
I would guess that under Berube, we will see a more consistent intensity and commitment to winning then previously.

1- I think the biggest difference with Berube will be aggressiveness.

2- The add of Tanev and Oel will help to get it done. Tanev is still of bewt defensive D in the entire NHL and easily the best D they had in that part last 20. OEL bring a 2 way top 4 D. We can say what we want but it's the best D leafs ever had in Matthews era.

for me it's 2 huge change

 

[Racer88]

They might end up in a very similar place after 82 games but I think they get there differently, and I think we have to see more behavioural difference with the Big 4. It’s got to look more urgent, the trap games have to be taken more workmanlike. The now shows can’t happen and the special teams can’t look like a lackadaisical skills practice.

I hope you are right that all these things will happen but I’m thinking it is going to take a few healthy scratches of the entitled core to convince them to play Berube’s style of game.
Does anyone really see Marner play the take no prisoners style of game. To be honest the only one is see trying to is Tavares but his skating is just not up to it.
Going to be a very interesting season with lots of tears on the bench

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It's the same team.

The forwards are the same with the exception of a mediocre Bertuzzi. Tanev in for Brodie isn't the massive improvement some fans are hyping/hoping for. A career backup in Stolarz replaces a career backup in Samsonov.

The rest of the guys are interchangeable duds who won't make a difference.

Meet the new Leafs same as the old Leafs. Five studs surrounded by a bunch of duds. I can't see the difference can you see the difference.

On paper the team isn't better.

The forwards and defense are basically the same, maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. But the goaltending... my god... the goaltending is the worst it's been in the Matthews era. This might be the first year we see this team miss the playoffs as a result.

If that happens it could finally be the impetus to change the core.

 

[Da Mash]

I’m not sure .
As most times it depends on our goalies. Tanev is an upgrade for sure if he stays healthy.

I can see Domi on the 3rd line and Berube on his ass for being lazy on D

Berube will love Marner and I hopefully light a fire with Nylander to be more consistent.

I’m more concerned with assistants than the HC now.

Berube act will get old if the playerss don’t respect the scheme
IMHO

I’m not sold on OEL….he will get a pass because he has a ring but soon enough he will be a whipping boy here and their will be threads and threads about how to get rid of him and his contract.

Better? Lots of players will need to improve and Woll has to be healthy

 

[Mess]

Analysts expose “major red flags” in Maple Leafs' offseason​

Are the Leafs really any better than last season?

The Toronto Maple Leafs faced another frustrating early exit in the Stanley Cup Playoffs, once again being eliminated by the rival Boston Bruins in the opening round. Since 2004, the Leafs have advanced to Round 2 only once, a surprising statistic given the team's talent.

But how much better are they heading into the 2024-25 season? According to Nick Alberga of Leafs Morning Take, there's really not much difference given the fact that the nucleus of the team is the same.

"Nothing's really changed," he said. "I mean, you could tell me there's been change. There has been, but it's always the same thing. When you have the same nucleus, it's going to be the same results in my world."

Former NHL goaltender Carter Hutton echoed Alberga's sentiments, and also went back to Toronto's 2023 Round 1 series victory over the Tampa Bay Lightning in what was a back-and-forth affair that easily could have ended differently.

"You can't get into the playoffs, it wanes every year. Last year, we looked back on winning a first-round against Tampa where realistically they weren't that great, you know, like they could have easily lost that series just as well as they won it," Hutton said.

"And then just to get whacked by the Panthers this year, just to get whacked by the Bruins. They go to seven, but they can't score, especially when your team is built to score and you can't score. There are a lot of red flags there."

Hutton concluded his comments with stating that the Leafs are essentially practicing insanity by not making any meaningful changes and yet expecting different results.

"So I think as a fan now and as an analyst on the other side, something's got to change," he said. "It obviously hasn't. And again, it's insanity. I agree. I think you're hitting the nail on the head."

 

[Da Mash]

If the leafs miss the playoffs after several yrs of being a team on 90-100 pts pace then Berube isn’t the coach we thought.

It would be quite funny in all honesty. We wanted more grit and added it and still failed. Now we wanted a hard nosed coach to yell at the players as some thought Keefer is the worst coach the leafs ever had.

The Devils make the playoffs and the leafs miss…..now that would be a media frenzy

 

[Stephen]

I hope you are right that all these things will happen but I’m thinking it is going to take a few healthy scratches of the entitled core to convince them to play Berube’s style of game.
Does anyone really see Marner play the take no prisoners style of game. To be honest the only one is see trying to is Tavares but his skating is just not up to it.
Going to be a very interesting season with lots of tears on the bench

I don’t think you’re going to turn Marner into Brady Tkachuk but can he be just a little more functional and cut down on his OHL super skills version of himself? Can he play with more straight line and quick decision making so it’s baked into his game by the playoffs?

It’s not like Berube made Kyrou a tough guy in St. Louis. There are limits. But can Mitch be less comfortable and just play on edge relative to being in his comfort zone with Keefe?

 

[Tak7]

People should study and make documentaries about how badly the Leafs have fumbled the ball all the way since drafting Matthews. Most talented core in the franchises history, and they will accomplish nothing. They are next level pathetic with their playoff performances, no team comes close to them.

They are a case study or template of mismanagement - and it all stems from the contracts.

Boggles my mind that markets like Florida are able to leverage how great it is to play there, while the Leafs are fundamentally incapable of leveraging playing in Toronto, and everything great that it can entail.

It's nauseating, honestly. The most talented core in our lifetime, and their cup window is already closed.

 

[Stephen]

If the leafs miss the playoffs after several yrs of being a team on 90-100 pts pace then Berube isn’t the coach we thought.

It would be quite funny in all honesty. We wanted more grit and added it and still failed. Now we wanted a hard nosed coach to yell at the players as some thought Keefer is the worst coach the leafs ever had.

The Devils make the playoffs and the leafs miss…..now that would be a media frenzy

If the Devils are more successful than Toronto it won’t be solely because of Keefe. It’s because they’ve built a better program and have multiple paths to being successful with strength in goal and an abundance of quality defense plus the finesse skills Dubas tried to build with.

If the Leafs are less successful with Berube, we still owed it to ourselves to try and get out of a dead end. If the recipe is so unworkable it tells me there are foundational issues once and for all and at that point we can pull the plug on the entire Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Reilly and Nylander era, no hesitation. Some, half, all can go at that point.

 

[Tak7]

Assuming they’re mostly done with the roster, they have to get through this season and then try to take a run the next two years using the Marner and JT cap space wisely. I don’t know if that’s possible with current management group. I anticipate this is Shanahan’s last season, and if it is, hopefully they let him go early enough in the season so they can replace him, and possibly the a GM, so they’re not scrambling next June.

The JT cap will already be accounted for in the Woll, Knies, and McCabe extensions. Those 3 extensions probably come out, combined, to more than the Tavares contract.

So, really, you have the Marner space (assuming no extension) and the cap going up, to potentially fill out a significant number of holes. That's massively problematic.

 

[Zack47]

It depends on the meaning of "better". More regular season points or winning playoff rounds? What is the measure?

The defense will be better, but i am one person who thought the defense last year turned into a plus. Look at the score in game 7 -- it wasn't 5-1. I believe the problem is "in the room", a two-class "us and them" system. The question for me is: exactly where is the cancer? Given that blowup on the bench we all saw, I do think Marner is the pivotal problem. I don't think they will be truly "better" until they break up the core four. Remember what everyone was screaming for after the season? Why is it quiet now?

As I have said before here, let Marner walk at the end of the year, because we will get full value on the free agent market for his 11 million dollars. Or, sure, trade him at the deadline. i don't care. Just think about the room and how it all fits together and think less about the statistics......

 

[thusk]

I hope you are right that all these things will happen but I’m thinking it is going to take a few healthy scratches of the entitled core to convince them to play Berube’s style of game.
Does anyone really see Marner play the take no prisoners style of game. To be honest the only one is see trying to is Tavares but his skating is just not up to it.
Going to be a very interesting season with lots of tears on the bench

Honestly i don't understand people who thinking marner will not fit under Berube, for me it's the guy who will have the biggest positive impact. Berube style is not playing a high physical game, it's about a agressive forechecking and hard work 200 feet of the ice ( not just 100 feet). Personally the guy i have the biggest doubt to fit in this system is Nylander.