Confirmed with Link: DJ Smith fired, Jacques Martin in as interim, Alfie as assistant

[DaveMatthew]

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Good that you have in-depth knowledge of what makes an NHL coach.

I have DJ's record in the NHL, DJ's record in junior, and a general sense of his character.

Great guy. Great junior coach. Bad NHL coach.

 

[coladin]

A day later and still the idea that we will have Jacques Martin backed up by Alfredsson as coaches on the bench still seems fever dream perfect.

these two more than any others embody what the Ottawa Senators should be all about and how they play.

What is it that they embody? Choking in the playoffs? Not winning when favoured?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Did someone expect systems changes?

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Bruce is saying John Gruden is potential frontrunner for the job next season?

Are you serious? Are we really gonna go with another rookie head coach again?

Former Sen who played with Alfredsson under Jacques Martin. Checks out.

 

[coladin]

I suspect they decided to fire Dorion because of the details unearthed in the 70 page report the NHL put together. I don't see how it was a puffed chest, foolish baravdo move to fire him, he quite clearly deserved to be fired.

You may be convinced Dorion would have fired Smith in Nov, assuming Staois would even let him make that move, but I think it's equally likely he'd have tried to make some major trade to "salvage" the season instead. Keeping Dorion around just adds more risk of an incompetent man making consequential decisions. Why would any business keep someone around they know is a liability?

I think we all agree that Staios dragged his feet on firing DJ, but the solution wasn't keep Dorion, it's for Staois to make the call earlier.

Maybe Dorion makes a trade. But for sure there is no way DJ makes it to Sweden.

The report and the hearing was done in late 2022. The new owner/management knew that he was found guilty, but were expecting a fine. That much is established. So they kept him around, and he locked up Sanderson, with only Pinto left to do. They fired him when they lost the 1st rounder, but he was already guilty, and they had no problem keeping him because they thought it was a "non-issue" according to the seller, and a non-issue sounds like a fine of some sort.

I didnt' want Dorion around, and in hindsight, they should have got rid of him before the seaosn started and put in their GM/coach. But the sale was delayed and possibly affected all of those things happening. The end result is, as Staios is the interim GM, he was negligent in dragging his arse over something that everyone saw before Sweden.

Now the season is over again. Before Christmas . Again. Staios and Andlauer have botched this up mighty good

 

[BondraTime]

What is it that they embody? Choking in the playoffs? Not winning when favoured?

I mean, the best player, and best defensive and system forward the team has had, along with the best coach in franchise history, to go along with having a team be a cup contender year in, year out for a decade. The biggest thing the current Sens struggle with is defensive and responsible play. Both Alfredsson and Martin specialize in those aspects of the game, guys should be listening and learning to what they are teaching them. They both absolutely embody what the Sens should be trying to develop in this group.

The team went to the playoffs 8/8 times with Martin, and his system and coaching helped develop some of the best Sens in franchise history.

All of Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Alfredsson, Vermette, Fisher, etc became ridiculously versatile and dependable forwards at both ends of the rink under Martin’s tutelage. We have those kind of players we hope to develop.

They’ve made the playoffs 8/17 times since. And the Sens have been a complete shitshow defensively for close to a decade, of which Martin is known for fostering a defensively sound team from top to bottom.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Please man, don't tell people to move on, that's plain disrespectful.

And yes, they absolutely should have done this at the very least ten games ago. It might have been the difference between saving the season and wasting a second one in a row(as far as expectations go). It's entirely fair to bring this up until the season is over.

Move on

 

[DaveMatthew]

What is it that they embody? Choking in the playoffs? Not winning when favoured?

In Jacques Martin's 8 full years as coach:

Averaged 97 pts/season (6th most points of any NHL team in that span)
8 playoff appearances
4 playoff series wins

All while competing in a non-capped league where the likes of the Leafs, Flyers and Rangers were spending 2x or 3x more on players.

It was a talented, detailed, focused, and consistent team.

Maybe he can get us back to that level of respectability and in 5 years, we can bring Bruce Cassidy home to take us over the top.

But the damage that Dorion and DJ inflicted during their tenure was so massive it was never going to be fixed over night. This team needs to learn to walk before they can think about running.

To use Melnyk's FYOUS terms, that's realistically been pushed back until 25/26.

23/24 - Get rid of bad habits, figure out who's part of the core, hopefully finish around .500
24/25 - Compete for a wildcard
25/26 - Make the playoffs
26/27 - Compete in the playoffs

Your position that Dorion would have "saved" this season is the funniest thing I've read on this forum in a long time.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I suspect they decided to fire Dorion because of the details unearthed in the 70 page report the NHL put together. I don't see how it was a puffed chest, foolish baravdo move to fire him, he quite clearly deserved to be fired.

You may be convinced Dorion would have fired Smith in Nov, assuming Staois would even let him make that move, but I think it's equally likely he'd have tried to make some major trade to "salvage" the season instead. Keeping Dorion around just adds more risk of an incompetent man making consequential decisions. Why would any business keep someone around they know is a liability?

I think we all agree that Staios dragged his feet on firing DJ, but the solution wasn't keep Dorion, it's for Staois to make the call earlier.

They also didn’t fire Dorion, but allowed him to resign. My understanding is that he doesn’t get paid his usual salary in this case,

I suspect that there was enough in the document to fire him with cause, but instead of going that route PD was allowed to resign and avoid the entire situation.

Maybe like how teams and players like to avoid arbitration hearings.

 

[HSF]

Wish him well.

This whole mess began with a puffed chest, foolish baravdo move by the organization to part ways with Dorion for something he did two years ago. I am fully convinced that if they did not do that, DJ would have been fired back in November, before Sweden.

Instead, we have lost another season dithering around and while the hires yesterday are good for short term, and non-committal, I am not impressed at all with the new owner/POHO handling of this season. They tried to win a social media game and torpedoed the season instead

uhhhh ya good luck any GM trusting to make a deal with Dorion after the report

They could have easily fired him with cause

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I have DJ's record in the NHL, DJ's record in junior, and a general sense of his character.

Great guy. Great junior coach. Bad NHL coach.

I have talk to a lot of people who worked with him at an NHL level in Toronto. Not what they say.

He will get another shot in the NHL

 

[LiseL]

Everything Staios and Andeluer have said tells me they did not think this team was good, quite the opposite.

The went out of their way to tell everyone this team had a long way to go before the season started.

I remember that as well. During their presser when SS was hired, they were asked about making the playoffs. Paraphrasing here, but basically said they weren't there yet. I'm glad they made his move. Will allow them to show players how to play away from the puck. Will also identify if any roster changes are needed. I'm now looking forward to watching the games: seeing them develop right in front of our eyes, being held accountable, if the goalies play improves once the defensive structure improves, what line changes he makes. Looking forward to tonight's game.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I have talk to a lot of people who worked with him at an NHL level in Toronto. Not what they say.

He will get another shot in the NHL

Not as a head coach. As an assistant to support a "hardass" (like he did with Babcock), sure.

There are a lot of way more accomplished former coaches who haven't gotten another opportunity yet. Some of them worked for this team pre-DJ. DJ will not be on the list when vacancies come up.

While there are some very loud angry voices on this board and Sens twitter, the perception of the job that's been done here by people in the league, outside the market, is not good.

Hell, even James Duthie who tries to be about as vanilla in his takes as he possible can, said on Overdrive last hour, "Everyone likes DJ... but how things went... it just wasn't good."

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

What is it that they embody? Choking in the playoffs? Not winning when favoured?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I have talk to a lot of people who worked with him at an NHL level in Toronto. Not what they say.

He will get another shot in the NHL

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So why did they keep both Dorion and DJ on to start the season? "This team is quite the opposite of good...hmmmmmmm, let's keep the guys in charge in place!"

How the hell does that thought make any sense to you? And before it gets repeated for the umpteenth time that they took control of the team late in the preseason, they could have still had a plan in place when they took over.

For instance, why didn't Andlauer hire someone with experience to come up with a short list of GM and coaching candidates that the Melnyk daughters could have started the process with? Why didn't the Melnyk daughters hire Staios at the beginning of the summer, on behalf of Andlauer?

"Hey board of directors, have you thought about making some personnel upgrades? *wink wink nudge nudge*"

So, the team is not good, the coach is not good and the GM is not good but they waited for the season to be over before they did anything? It's complete nonsense.

1. They did have a plan in place, but assumed ownership too late to have the “pick of the litter” among potential GMs or Head coaches…. And probably had their preferred replacements already under contract with other teams….. so why not ride out the season with the personnel already under contract in place…. And make the changes in the off-season?

2 The Melnyk Sisters…who were NOT running the franchise, but if they did, would not have known who the eventual new owner would be in September…..DUH!


3 the Board of Directors who were running the team, would have been crazy to make upgrades to management in the selling process….. new ownership was going to come in and more than likely make the changes anyway.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

View attachment 786514
View attachment 786515

Even an HHOFer said "he is the chosen one"

 

[coladin]

I mean, the best player, and best defensive and system forward the team has had, along with the best coach in franchise history, to go along with having a team be a cup contender year in, year out for a decade. The biggest thing the current Sens struggle with is defensive and responsible play. Both Alfredsson and Martin specialize in those aspects of the game, guys should be listening and learning to what they are teaching them. They both absolutely embody what the Sens should be trying to develop in this group.

The team went to the playoffs 8/8 times with Martin, and his system and coaching helped develop some of the best Sens in franchise history.

All of Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Alfredsson, Vermette, Fisher, etc became ridiculously versatile and dependable forwards at both ends of the rink under Martin’s tutelage. We have those kind of players we hope to develop.

They’ve made the playoffs 8/17 times since. And the Sens have been a complete shitshow defensively for close to a decade, of which Martin is known for fostering a defensively sound team from top to bottom.

Don't get me wrong. Love Alfie and Martin. but seriously. I don't know how old you are, but anyone around at that time said he was a good coach to get them into the playoffs, but got badly outcoached in most matchups and even though Ottawa was favoured, he lost the coaching battle way more often than not. No pulse. no fire. We know these things, right?

It's just funny to me that our glory days of guys like Martin and Alfie, Phillips were truly about underachieving in the playoffs, and chokers. Yet we glorify them now

 

[robsenz]

Don't get me wrong. Love Alfie and Martin. but seriously. I don't know how old you are, but anyone around at that time said he was a good coach to get them into the playoffs, but got badly outcoached in most matchups and even though Ottawa was favoured, he lost the coaching battle way more often than not. No pulse. no fire. We know these things, right?

It's just funny to me that our glory days of guys like Martin and Alfie, Phillips were truly about underachieving in the playoffs, and chokers. Yet we glorify them now

Martin eventually won though but you're right.

 

[coladin]

In Jacques Martin's 8 full years as coach:

Averaged 97 pts/season (6th most points of any NHL team in that span)
8 playoff appearances
4 playoff series wins

All while competing in a non-capped league where the likes of the Leafs, Flyers and Rangers were spending 2x or 3x more on players.

It was a talented, detailed, focused, and consistent team.

Maybe he can get us back to that level of respectability and in 5 years, we can bring Bruce Cassidy home to take us over the top.

But the damage that Dorion and DJ inflicted during their tenure was so massive it was never going to be fixed over night. This team needs to learn to walk before they can think about running.

To use Melnyk's FYOUS terms, that's realistically been pushed back until 25/26.

23/24 - Get rid of bad habits, figure out who's part of the core, hopefully finish around .500
24/25 - Compete for a wildcard
25/26 - Make the playoffs
26/27 - Compete in the playoffs

Your position that Dorion would have "saved" this season is the funniest thing I've read on this forum in a long time.

ok

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

It's just funny to me that our glory days of guys like Martin and Alfie, Phillips were truly about underachieving in the playoffs, and chokers. Yet we glorify them now

Well, that's because for the modern version of this franchise, those were the best times.

It's hard to criticize 100+ point seasons in hindsight, even if they were followed by playoff disappointments, when you just went through 6 years of an unmitigated tire fire led by Pierre Dorion and DJ.

Nobody thinks those teams were the Bowman and Yzerman-era Wings, but they were miles and miles and miles better than what we've had for a very long time.

Heck, if you brought back Paul MacLean, people would have been happy because even he brought good moments. DJ brought zero.

 

[Micklebot]

Maybe Dorion makes a trade. But for sure there is no way DJ makes it to Sweden.

The report and the hearing was done in late 2022. The new owner/management knew that he was found guilty, but were expecting a fine. That much is established. So they kept him around, and he locked up Sanderson, with only Pinto left to do. They fired him when they lost the 1st rounder, but he was already guilty, and they had no problem keeping him because they thought it was a "non-issue" according to the seller, and a non-issue sounds like a fine of some sort.

I didnt' want Dorion around, and in hindsight, they should have got rid of him before the seaosn started and put in their GM/coach. But the sale was delayed and possibly affected all of those things happening. The end result is, as Staios is the interim GM, he was negligent in dragging his arse over something that everyone saw before Sweden.

Now the season is over again. Before Christmas . Again. Staios and Andlauer have botched this up mighty good

When the report and hearings were completed isn't relevant, when ownership was given the details of the report and hearing is. If management expected a fine, it's because they didn't understand the extent of how badly Dorion f'd up. He got fired because of his actions, not because the punishment was bigger than expected.

Any way you look at it, Dorion needed to be fired, no smart businessman keeps someone that messed up that bad around longer than they have too. Keeping him wouldn't have made this season go any better, mind boggling to think otherwise.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Maybe Dorion makes a trade. But for sure there is no way DJ makes it to Sweden.

The report and the hearing was done in late 2022. The new owner/management knew that he was found guilty, but were expecting a fine. That much is established. So they kept him around, and he locked up Sanderson, with only Pinto left to do. They fired him when they lost the 1st rounder, but he was already guilty, and they had no problem keeping him because they thought it was a "non-issue" according to the seller, and a non-issue sounds like a fine of some sort.

I didnt' want Dorion around, and in hindsight, they should have got rid of him before the seaosn started and put in their GM/coach. But the sale was delayed and possibly affected all of those things happening. The end result is, as Staios is the interim GM, he was negligent in dragging his arse over something that everyone saw before Sweden.

Now the season is over again. Before Christmas . Again. Staios and Andlauer have botched this up mighty good

I think Andlauer and Staios knew the team wasn't going to go anywhere this season. They weren't expecting playoffs, so they "hoped" that they could get through the year with the current staff in place (with a couple of new babysitters in place to veto any potential terrible decisions), and then could regroup in June.

But the fiasco that Pierre Dorion got himself into made his situation untenable (What other GM was going to deal with him the same way after it was proven he straight up lied to another team during a trade call? And there's no way a new owner could keep a GM who made such a blantant and public f*ck up on staff, especially one who had no track record of winning, without losing the fanbase) and the atmosphere around the coach became so toxic that it would have just been unfair to keep him on longer. Making him coach on Saturday at home would've been a gongshow.

Personally, I would've fired DJ way earlier, but my expectations (or hopes) for this year were probably higher than the new ownerships'.

Judging by their public comments, they're getting set for a much bigger reset than some fans were hoping for.

Jacques is here to settle things down, instill some better habits, give Staios some intel on who to keep and who to trade, and hopefully finish out the year without getting as embarrassed as they have been so far.

But he's a stopgap.

 

[coladin]

When the report and hearings were completed isn't relevant, when ownership was given the details of the report and hearing is. If management expected a fine, it's because they didn't understand the extent of how badly Dorion f'd up. He got fired because of his actions, not because the punishment was bigger than expected.

Any way you look at it, Dorion needed to be fired, no smart businessman keeps someone that messed up that bad around longer than they have too. Keeping him wouldn't have made this season go any better, mind boggling to think otherwise.

The severity of the punishment doesbn't change the fact that they already knew he was guilty and kept him on. For this reason, this falls on management as well. I agree he needed to be fired, but they should have had a better plan to make sure that Staios could do the GM job with the ability to fire DJ when the season required it. In hindsight, they had enough to go by to not bring Dorion/DJ back, and i guess the late sale and delays possibly slowed that aspect.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

The severity of the punishment doesbn't change the fact that they already knew he was guilty and kept him on. For this reason, this falls on management as well. I agree he needed to be fired, but they should have had a better plan to make sure that Staios could do the GM job with the ability to fire DJ when the season required it. In hindsight, they had enough to go by to not bring Dorion/DJ back, and i guess the late sale and delays possibly slowed that aspect.

I don't think that's what's been reported.

What's been reported is that they knew there was an investigation taking place, but were told by the former owners that it was "not an issue." For all they knew, it was a minor miscommunication that would be cleared up rather than intentional misconduct that would cost the team a 1st rounder.

Andlauer didn't know whether Dorion was guilty until he received that 70-page report from the NHL.

He fired Dorion later that week.