WC: Divisions I, II, III

[kabidjan18]

Nobody in Italy expected any solidity. Brand new team, young and not so experienced. Good plays mixed with weird black outs, that is what it was expected, for sure not solidity.
Not goin to complain, though, if the team keeps on being this hard to crack then the promotion (which would be a great upset since according to the plan the team is expected to be a serious contender for promotion not before 3-4 more years) can be reached.
When I say that the gap is smaller then ever is mostly because Slovenia and Austria (and of course Italy) are no longer the teams that will "automatically" get promoted, Austria specially has lost quite some quality.
This year, and most likely the next ones as well, they will actually have to fight to get promoted, it is no longer a "we only have one real match and it will determine whether we get promoted as first or second". Of course Austria and Slovenia are the favourites, but the chanches for an upset this year are concrete.


...but yeah, the polish goalie had some weird journeys around the ice and the second goal was quite a soft one. On the other side Andreas Bernard has been great, but that is expected since he is probably the best player in the roster.

No, the polish goalie is their superstar. The other players are...

Austria has lost quality in the sense that Vanek and Grabner aren't available, both the Raffl brothers moved overseas and are thus occupied, Dominique Heinrich is working out with his new SHL team, Matthias Lange is feuding with Alpo Suhonen, and Dan Ratushny is both likely on his way out and playing a makeshift test roster to feature a lot of rookies and new players...the WC roster (only 20 so far) is an exact 50/50 of A teamers and rookies/minute-eaters...but yes I guess in that sense Austria has lost quality, because like other programs that have exports we also have absentees.

 

[Ris]

Slovenia 3:1 Italy

 

[Urbanskog]

Swift with a hat trick... I hope they'll scrap these Canadians after the Olympics and start to focus on developing talent on their own.

 

[Jon Riley]

Wow I check his eliteprospects page..he has quite some impressive stats in the Asian league.. 90 points in 36 games in his first season?

 

[kabidjan18]

Swift with a hat trick... I hope they'll scrap these Canadians after the Olympics and start to focus on developing talent on their own.

Korea has never played with more than 3 imports before, playing with 6 now, smite Poland, and I recall saying that beating Hungary didn't signify a whole lot before...

 

[jonas2244]

Matt Dalton is probably the key for the success today (and yesterday). In the last years they missed a good goalie, now they have one.

 

[kaiser matias]

There goes Poland's hopes of getting promoted. A long shot even before the tournament started, but not the way the host country probably wanted to start. Good for the Koreans, gives them a good chance now to stay in this division for next year, while Poland suddenly is fighting against relegation.

 

[legionista]

There goes Poland's hopes of getting promoted. A long shot even before the tournament started, but not the way the host country probably wanted to start. Good for the Koreans, gives them a good chance now to stay in this division for next year, while Poland suddenly is fighting against relegation.

Technically it was POL-KOR 1-1. Three goals scored by one of the many Canadians on the Korean team.

 

[HungryFrank]

Technically it was POL-KOR 1-1. Three goals scored by one of the many Canadians on the Korean team.

teams like Korea are a shame for international hockey, if player has ancestry somewhere else, that should be only way for a player to get immediate eligibility, otherwise, wait for at least 5 years.

if there is justice on this world, they won't get promoted to elite division, but money rules the world, right...

 

[PanniniClaus]

teams like Korea are a shame for international hockey, if player has ancestry somewhere else, that should be only way for a player to get immediate eligibility, otherwise, wait for at least 5 years.

if there is justice on this world, they won't get promoted to elite division, but money rules the world, right...

Not the first country to take this approach. I am not against it for a short term boost to raise the profile of the game. Once that is done you want to grow your own. Korea won't be able to sustain these mercenaries so they will need to use the Olympics as the springboard to further development.

The Olympics did little for Japan though (so far) so it may or may not work. The IIHF also gave the top Asian team an auto birth to raise the profile as well.

 

[kabidjan18]

teams like Korea are a shame for international hockey, if player has ancestry somewhere else, that should be only way for a player to get immediate eligibility, otherwise, wait for at least 5 years.

if there is justice on this world, they won't get promoted to elite division, but money rules the world, right...

They would need to beat Slovenia to be promoted

 

[SoundAndFury]

So many teams have done it, it's not that big of a deal. Korea doesn't even play THAT many foreigners and their chances to get promoted or even get enough Canadian players to be good enough to get promoted ever are extremely slim. Also seems kinda hypocritical to hear the whining from Poles when they themselves have North Americans playing for them.

I would absolutely enjoy seeing Swift and Dalton getting trashed by the likes of Crosby and Malkin.

 

[kabidjan18]

So many teams have done it, it's not that big of a deal. Korea doesn't even play THAT many foreigners and their chances to get promoted or even get enough Canadian players to be good enough to get promoted ever are extremely slim. Also seems kinda hypocritical to hear the whining from Poles when they themselves have North Americans playing for them.

I would absolutely enjoy seeing Swift and Dalton getting trashed by the likes of Crosby and Malkin.

Nothing drives me crazier than a commenter who's done zero homework. The Poles don't have any Canadians on their team. In case you missed it there's been this massive movement away from using imports in the last few years, it's trendy I guess you could say. Poland uses zero Canadians, Italy, Britain and other countries are steering away from it as well. There was a commenter a while back who didn't know that Austria had stopped using imports, and that has been a long while. Right now it's trendy not to use imports, so most countries don't.

Six imports is a lot in this day and age. Of course there have been some teams that featured way more, but in the present time 6 is quite a few.

 

[HungryFrank]

So many teams have done it, it's not that big of a deal. Korea doesn't even play THAT many foreigners and their chances to get promoted or even get enough Canadian players to be good enough to get promoted ever are extremely slim.

if it has been done before that doesn't make it right. Most of what Korean team has done (in match vs Poland) was done by NA players.

It's a shame when honest teams that work hard with their youth players fall behind NT like that, it really sends a message to everyone they should rather invest in professional hockey, not to build steadily.

 

[legionista]

So many teams have done it, it's not that big of a deal. Korea doesn't even play THAT many foreigners and their chances to get promoted or even get enough Canadian players to be good enough to get promoted ever are extremely slim. Also seems kinda hypocritical to hear the whining from Poles when they themselves have North Americans playing for them.

I would absolutely enjoy seeing Swift and Dalton getting trashed by the likes of Crosby and Malkin.

You should check your facts first. Name a player on the Polish roster who is North American. Yea, didn't think so.

 

[Siamese Dream]

teams like Korea are a shame for international hockey, if player has ancestry somewhere else, that should be only way for a player to get immediate eligibility, otherwise, wait for at least 5 years.

if there is justice on this world, they won't get promoted to elite division, but money rules the world, right...

You don't get immediate eligibility when you're a dual national. You still have to play the 2 years. Where the unfairness starts is when different countries have different rules for getting citizenship.

If you already held the nationality, fine, you only have to play 2 years, that's the same for everyone. However, countries like Great Britain for example require 5 year residency before you can get the citizenship, whereas Korea and Croatia are handing out citizenships like candy bars and all these guys only have to play there for 2 years. Most of the ones Croatia have used ended up buggering off and going to leagues in other countries to play after they'd got their citizenship.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I've been impressed with the quality of the Div I teams! I've only seen highlights, but Slovenia has looked fantastic, though that should be expected since they are a bounce-team between the elite division and Div I. I was happy for Hungary last year, and I hope a new team makes the jump this year as well.

As for Korea and imports, I agree I don't like the idea of so many Canadians on the team. I don't have a problem with Korean-Canadians or Korean-Americans, but other than Brock Radunske, each other import seems to have come to Korea either after they found out Korea was hosting the Winter Olympics, and some have even come after they saw other foreigners being naturalized for the team. It's merely an opportunity for foreigners to play in the Olympics against Crosby and the other NHL stars.

That said, it is an overreaction to call this a shame. It is a short-term solution to something that requires urgency. Korea simply doesn't want to get embarrassed at the Olympics, and hockey is a sport that takes decades to develop, not just 7 years. I don't see Korea using imports after 2018. Anyone who is outraged for selfish reasons only needs to wait 2 more years, and they won't have to worry about Korea as competition anymore. It's especially hypocritical when your own country has used imports in the past.

 

[kabidjan18]

I've been impressed with the quality of the Div I teams! I've only seen highlights, but Slovenia has looked fantastic , though that should be expected since they are a bounce-team between the elite division and Div I. I was happy for Hungary last year, and I hope a new team makes the jump this year as well.

As for Korea and imports, I agree I don't like the idea of so many Canadians on the team. I don't have a problem with Korean-Canadians or Korean-Americans, but other than Brock Radunske, each other import seems to have come to Korea either after they found out Korea was hosting the Winter Olympics, and some have even come after they saw other foreigners being naturalized for the team. It's merely an opportunity for foreigners to play in the Olympics against Crosby and the other NHL stars.

That said, it is an overreaction to call this a shame. It is a short-term solution to something that requires urgency. Korea simply doesn't want to get embarrassed at the Olympics, and hockey is a sport that takes decades to develop, not just 7 years. I don't see Korea using imports after 2018. Anyone who is outraged for selfish reasons only needs to wait 2 more years, and they won't have to worry about Korea as competition anymore. It's especially hypocritical when your own country has used imports in the past.

I know, it's impressive, they look like they might be able to take Slovakia...

 

[SoundAndFury]

Nothing drives me crazier than a commenter who's done zero homework. The Poles don't have any Canadians on their team.

You should check your facts first. Name a player on the Polish roster who is North American. Yea, didn't think so.

Just because they can't attract NA players good enough for WC roster doesn't mean they don't use them or are against the idea of using them. Answer me this please, did or did not Dalton and Cichy play for Poland this very year in EHC? So much for not doing my homework and not checking the facts.

Or did Poles just give them citizenship to have more model citizens who can't even speak Polish with no intentions of ever playing them to the NT? Also, "massive movement away from using imports in the last few years". Indeed. That's probably the reason why Poland started doing just recently, to go against the flow. Inspired by hipster philosophy, most likely.

But as always, points for effort to make others "do their homework" and "check their facts".

 

[kabidjan18]

Just because they can't attract NA players good enough for WC roster doesn't mean they don't use them or are against the idea of using them. Answer me this please, did or did not Dalton and Cichy play for Poland this very year in EHC? So much for not doing my homework and not checking the facts.

Or did Poles just give them citizenship to have more model citizens who can't even speak Polish with no intentions of ever playing them to the NT? Also, "massive movement away from using imports in the last few years". Indeed. That's probably the reason why Poland started doing just recently, to go against the flow. Inspired by hipster philosophy, most likely.

But as always, points for effort to make others "do their homework" and "check their facts".

Danton* and Cichy played in a little midseason friendly fest, is that the best you have? The fact that they never represent Poland in sanctioned tournaments like the Olympic Qualifications and World Championships I guess just don't support the point you're trying to make. Also, Cichy is a polish last name, I suspect he had a citizenship from youth and probably can't play due to having played for the US and thus needing to play a certain number of years in Poland. Danton is a complicated story but his first listed nationality is Polish. Ever heard of something called nuance? Either way neither of them represent Poland in tournaments where eligibility rules apply, not that you care...

The move was made because of the successes of other countries who went from import based to natural...Korea would be your hipster but korea has a reason for what they do...again...nuance...

 

[BayStreetBully]

Just because they can't attract NA players good enough for WC roster doesn't mean they don't use them or are against the idea of using them. Answer me this please, did or did not Dalton and Cichy play for Poland this very year in EHC? So much for not doing my homework and not checking the facts.

Or did Poles just give them citizenship to have more model citizens who can't even speak Polish with no intentions of ever playing them to the NT? Also, "massive movement away from using imports in the last few years". Indeed. That's probably the reason why Poland started doing just recently, to go against the flow. Inspired by hipster philosophy, most likely.

But as always, points for effort to make others "do their homework" and "check their facts".

I agree that having foreigners on your team correlates with the ability to attract them in the first place. If Poland was hosting the Winter Olympics, I'd expect we'd see foreigners wanting to play on their hockey team too, to get their 15 minutes of fame in the Olympics. Though in Poland's case, there's probably enough Polish-Canadians and Polish-Americans to fill that team.

And off the top of my head, Olisadebe played for the Polish national soccer team at the FIFA World Cup. I recall he was naturalized pretty quickly after coming from Nigeria.

 

[legionista]

Just because they can't attract NA players good enough for WC roster doesn't mean they don't use them or are against the idea of using them. Answer me this please, did or did not Dalton and Cichy play for Poland this very year in EHC? So much for not doing my homework and not checking the facts.

Or did Poles just give them citizenship to have more model citizens who can't even speak Polish with no intentions of ever playing them to the NT? Also, "massive movement away from using imports in the last few years". Indeed. That's probably the reason why Poland started doing just recently, to go against the flow. Inspired by hipster philosophy, most likely.

But as always, points for effort to make others "do their homework" and "check their facts".

Nice try, but they are just all straw-man arguments at best. Not that it matters because like mentioned before Danton and Cichy both did not represent Poland in an IIHF tournament, but Michael Cichy is of Polish decent and comes from a Polish-Canadian family, more than can be said of the Canadians on the Korean team. Given the amount of Polish-American and Polish-Canadian hockey players in the world, if Poland actually had those players on their roster they would be a mainstay in the Elite level, but this is not the case as you can see for arguable reasons.

As a matter of fact in recent history Poland is one of the more homogeneous countries represented in terms of hockey compared to their competition and teams with a similar rank (Italy, Korea, Hungary, Kazakhstan, GB, etc.). For me this is not homework, it's common knowledge from being around the environment my friend. Once again, I suggest you do more research/homework before commenting on such topics.

 

[SoundAndFury]

So the fact that you found some trivial arguments to explain why players from NA played for the Polish NT somehow makes the statement that they did indeed play for it not valid? Ok then.

BayStreetBully made a good point as well. Polish football NT is one of the very few to use naturalized players so once again, to me, IMHO, Polish fans should really not be crying about that.

 

[legionista]

So the fact that you found some trivial arguments to explain why players from NA played for the Polish NT somehow makes the statement that they did indeed play for it not valid? Ok then.

BayStreetBully made a good point as well. Polish football NT is one of the very few to use naturalized players so once again, to me, IMHO, Polish fans should really not be crying about that.

It is not a trivial argument, it's the point. Once again name me a NA player that has played for Poland in an IIHF tournament in the last 5 years. You can't because there has been none, therefore in context your argument makes no sense.

And why are we even talking about football? That's a totally different system of rules, there's no two year club eligibility rule like there is in IIHF. Now you're just grasping.

 

[Siamese Dream]

So someone who disagrees with the use of naturalised players even by their own country isn't allowed to complain about other countries using naturalised players because their country does/used to use naturalised players

That is the mother of all strawmen