Disney Star Wars General Discussion

It's fine if the ST ends up like the PT. A clear dark mark in terms of quality on SW as a whole, but in the long-run they really won't have much long-term damage IMO, as long as some quality content starts coming out. If future content continues to divide the fans, then there could be some long-term problems.

Big differences between the prequels and sequels is a) the prequels didn't rehash the original trilogy, b) the prequels didn't do anything to Luke, Han, and Leia, c) while flawed in the execution, the prequels had a coherent story arc, and d) eventually Clone Wars came along to add a lot of context to that era. Given how convoluted the sequel trilogy was, do you see much of an opportunity for a "Clone Wars" of the sequel trilogy era?

I'm not sure anyone should hold their breath for "quality content" as it relates to the sequel trilogy era. A lot of what Disney seems to currently have planned is taking place between Episodes III and IV, with the Mandalorian and the High Republic being the only exceptions for now. There's plenty of reason to believe that Disney has no faith in being able to further market the sequel trilogy. Sure, quality content from other eras could win back fans. But does that mean Disney ignores the sequel trilogy in perpetuity?
 
De-canonizing seems silly and pointless. I do, however, support moving on from the trilogies. The biggest sin has been the whacking off to Skywalker bloodlines and continuity. They did what they did. They did it poorly, let's move on to other corners and characters in the universe.

Star Wars is a MASSIVE world of potential. Yet all some of the creatives (and fans) seem to want to do is play in the boring old dull Skywalker-centric corner of it.

It's long past time for new stories and characters beyond the bounds of the original trilogy.
 
One thing that Star Wars has done well in spurts is taking concepts/stories from elsewhere in porting that into a Star Wars setting. The Mandalorian is a riff on Lone Wolf and Cub not to mention many Westerns, for instance. Some of my favorite stretches of Clone Wars are clear multi-part takeoffs of movies like Aliens and Face/Off. I'm a fan of Rouge One because of its clear Dirty Dozen/heist movie DNA, which is definitely different for a Star Wars flick.

This isn't original in a big world sense, but it is original to Star Wars and I find it works (at least to me) more often than not. Part of the problem is that so much of the Star Wars films has been focused on rehashing the same damn beats of the Star Wars films.
 
One thing that Star Wars has done well in spurts is taking concepts/stories from elsewhere in porting that into a Star Wars setting. The Mandalorian is a riff on Lone Wolf and Cub not to mention many Westerns, for instance. Some of my favorite stretches of Clone Wars are clear multi-part takeoffs of movies like Aliens and Face/Off. I'm a fan of Rouge One because of its clear Dirty Dozen/heist movie DNA, which is definitely different for a Star Wars flick.

This isn't original in a big world sense, but it is original to Star Wars and I find it works (at least to me) more often than not. Part of the problem is that so much of the Star Wars films has been focused on rehashing the same damn beats of the Star Wars films.

Even the biggest defenders of the sequel trilogy can't argue that Disney just rehashed the empire vs rebels plotline.
 
De-canonizing seems silly and pointless. I do, however, support moving on from the trilogies. The biggest sin has been the whacking off to Skywalker bloodlines and continuity. They did what they did. They did it poorly, let's move on to other corners and characters in the universe.

Star Wars is a MASSIVE world of potential. Yet all some of the creatives (and fans) seem to want to do is play in the boring old dull Skywalker-centric corner of it.

It's long past time for new stories and characters beyond the bounds of the original trilogy.

I tend to agree with your point about Skywalker-centric stories. Though to your point about de-canonization of the sequels being silly and pointless - if they don't do that, doesn't that mean Disney is either a) forced to ignore that era indefinitely, or b) forced into unpopular creative constraints if they want to tell stories between Episodes VI and VII? Wouldn't de-canonization offer the chance for them to move onto other corners and characters of the Star Wars universe and tell new stories as you suggested?
 
I tend to agree with your point about Skywalker-centric stories. Though to your point about de-canonization of the sequels being silly and pointless - if they don't do that, doesn't that mean Disney is either a) forced to ignore that era indefinitely, or b) forced into unpopular creative constraints if they want to tell stories between Episodes VI and VII? Wouldn't de-canonization offer the chance for them to move onto other corners and characters of the Star Wars universe and tell new stories as you suggested?

I don't see why good, creative people couldn't tell new stories in the gaps of sequel trilogy even with the issues it created. I think Clone Wars more than proves that. It had constraints upon it because of the prequels, but found ways to build and expand and create regardless.

But again, you're steering right into one of the classic traps of Star Wars ... the urge to fill in gaps and build upon what has come before.

I'm just arguing -- why not do something new? New characters, new worlds, new time periods, whatever. I'm sure there will always be the need for some connective tissue to group the viewer. That's cool. The problem is when it turns into the "everyone's gotta be related and connected to each other" mess that the sequel trilogy became.
 
I don't see why good, creative people couldn't tell new stories in the gaps of sequel trilogy even with the issues it created. I think Clone Wars more than proves that. It had constraints upon it because of the prequels, but found ways to build and expand and create regardless.

They attempted this with Star Wars Resistance, but that didn't work out so well, nor did it connect anything between VIII and IX. Given that the sequel trilogy is told over a much shorter time period than the prequels and didn't follow a singular arc or vision, can you really see that happening?

But again, you're steering right into one of the classic traps of Star Wars ... the urge to fill in gaps and build upon what has come before.

Actually no, I want them to avoid that pile of excrement. :laugh:


I'm just arguing -- why not do something new? New characters, new worlds, new time periods, whatever. I'm sure there will always be the need for some connective tissue to group the viewer. That's cool. The problem is when it turns into the "everyone's gotta be related and connected to each other" mess that the sequel trilogy became.

I agree. And de-canonizing the sequel trilogy gives them a fresh slate for anything following Return of the Jedi. Mind you, I would have no desire to see the sequel trilogy re-made in that scenario.
 
They attempted this with Star Wars Resistance, but that didn't work out so well, nor did it connect anything between VIII and IX. Given that the sequel trilogy is told over a much shorter time period than the prequels and didn't follow a singular arc or vision, can you really see that happening?



Actually no, I want them to avoid that pile of excrement. :laugh:




I agree. And de-canonizing the sequel trilogy gives them a fresh slate for anything following Return of the Jedi. Mind you, I would have no desire to see the sequel trilogy re-made in that scenario.

I also have no real urge for them to tie into or build upon the sequel trilogy. We're on the same page there. But they probably will at some point. I'll just have to hope for the best.

In fairness to your point, it certainly wouldn't be the first time the de-canonized post ROTJ stories. So it ain't unprecedented (though it's much easier to throw out books and comics that are more on the fringe of fandom than movies which are the populist center of it).

I just broadly find de-canonization to be a little silly. I get its purpose but a piece of work still was made. It still exists. The successes or failures are still there whether a company executive tells me they are or not.
 
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I tend to agree with your point about Skywalker-centric stories. Though to your point about de-canonization of the sequels being silly and pointless - if they don't do that, doesn't that mean Disney is either a) forced to ignore that era indefinitely, or b) forced into unpopular creative constraints if they want to tell stories between Episodes VI and VII? Wouldn't de-canonization offer the chance for them to move onto other corners and characters of the Star Wars universe and tell new stories as you suggested?

Just ignore whatever isn't essential to the film.

To take the idea of "The Dirty Dozen in space" concept of imagining a take on some older work in a Star Wars setting (because I'm not creative enough to actually come up with something truly original off the fly), and just looking at my collection for ideas:

...

A corrupt but vaguely sympathetic business executive is using ex-Imperial mercenaries to protect his big project on the outskirts of civilization, and the leader of those mercenaries brutally murdered someone close to our mysterious protagonist during the war. The protagonist, who is fundamentally moral but clearly on the wrong side of the law, seeks revenge while the mercenary leader terrorizes a family who are in the way of the big project. In the end, the mercenary leader is killed, the family survives, and the protagonist gets their revenge. Once Upon a Time in the West in space.

You don't need to use any established characters, you don't need to care about post-Empire galactic politics or the Jedi or the First Order, and you don't have to set this anywhere that has been shown before. Space Westerns are probably overdone, particularly in Star Wars, but you just have to make it good and people will come.

...

How about a Star Wars noir film that also pays homage to Blade Runner? Star Wars even already has established examples of clones used for slave labor. It'd be too close to have a hard-boiled private eye chasing ex-clones in the future, but maybe you can build something off that. Again, you don't need any established characters or locations or storylines to build towards, as long as you resolve the character's stories within the film.

...

Perhaps a Hitchcockesque "ordinary person in the wrong place at the wrong time" story? Take an ordinary nobody, have them be mistaken for someone else, witness something they shouldn't have witnessed, or run into a creepy person with a serious problem, throw them into danger as a result of this unfortunate accident, and have them find a way to escape? If you want, you could tie them into something grander, but you don't have to.

...

Basically, you don't have to "decanonize" anything (which is a pointless exercise). You don't have to include or reference anything that doesn't fit within or isn't relevant to your film. Just ignore it and write a good film that is self-contained.
 
I also have no real urge for them to tie into or build upon the sequel trilogy. We're on the same page there. But they probably will at some point. I'll just have to hope for the best.

In fairness to your point, it certainly wouldn't be the first time the de-canonized post ROTJ stories. So it ain't unprecedented (though it's much easier to throw out books and comics that are more on the fringe of fandom than movies which are the populist center of it).

I just broadly find de-canonization to be a little silly. I get its purpose but a piece of work still was made. It still exists. The successes or failures are still there whether a company executive tells me they are or not.

It would be easier to de-canonize the sequel trilogy as it is still relatively isolated from everything else Star Wars. Very little tie-in material exists, and what does is mostly in books or comics that go unnoticed. It wouldn't be like de-canonizing the prequels, where you already have so much tie-in material between that and the original trilogy.

To your last point, yes, those movies would still exist just like legends EU exists. You would be able to watch them just as you are currently able to pick and read one of the Dark Empire books. The events in those movies just wouldn't be considered or referenced for any new material in the post-ROTJ universe and would give writers and storytellers much more creative freedom.
 
It isn't going to happen, and it is a silly request.

There are enough legs under the rumor that it doesn't seem so silly any more. Since it first broke a couple of months ago, I've read a new article just about every week that's added more fuel and given more details. Then, just last week, came the news that Mark Hamill has signed a new deal with Lucasfilm. Since the news of Kennedy leaving next year, both Hamill and Lucas have reportedly shown new interest in the franchise. Something is brewing. What it'll lead to is unclear, and that may not include de-canonizing or changing the ST trilogy, but it looks like that's still one of the options on the table at the moment.

'Star Wars': Everything We Know About the Rumored Luke Skywalker Standalone Movie
 
There are enough legs under the rumor that it doesn't seem so silly any more. Since it first broke a couple of months ago, I've read a new article just about every week that's added more fuel and given more details. Then, just last week, came the news that Mark Hamill has signed a new deal with Lucasfilm. Since the news of Kennedy leaving next year, both Hamill and Lucas have reportedly shown new interest in the franchise. Something is brewing. What it'll lead to is unclear, and that may not include de-canonizing or changing the ST trilogy, but it looks like that's still one of the options on the table at the moment.

'Star Wars': Everything We Know About the Rumored Luke Skywalker Standalone Movie

I'd still rather just see something brand new. We already saw Luke die and rewriting his incredibly dumb Rian Johnsson story arch would miss the main point of why SW fans have so much malaise.

This is the problem with Kathleen Kennedy and why her new comments about a 25,000 year history are such a joke. Stop trying to give us something familiar you think will be good. It's creatively hallow. Show me how big this galaxy is. Show me how broad of a timeframe we're working with here. Show me something I haven't seen before.

Is a Luke Skywalker movie reaaaaaaallly going to be that good? I'd be shocked if it were that much better than "Solo"
 
I'd still rather just see something brand new. We already saw Luke die and rewriting his incredibly dumb Rian Johnsson story arch would miss the main point of why SW fans have so much malaise.

This is the problem with Kathleen Kennedy and why her new comments about a 25,000 year history are such a joke. Stop trying to give us something familiar you think will be good. It's creatively hallow. Show me how big this galaxy is. Show me how broad of a timeframe we're working with here. Show me something I haven't seen before.

I'm open to the idea of a satisfactory (or, at least, better) close to the Skywalker saga. If things are just left as is, it'll be a sore spot and make it harder for long-time fans like me to move on and invest in the new stories. It's a bit like how the Special Editions (and refusal to remaster the theatrical editions) are a sore spot for some of us. Lucasfilm still hasn't made that right. Even if they don't change the ST any, if they were to, say, make a standalone Luke Skywalker movie set years before the ST and his death, I might welcome that, assuming that it's good and at least partly like what I imagined since being a kid what a post-RotJ Luke movie would be. End the Skywalker saga on a positive note to make us old-time fans happy and then move on to new material.

Is a Luke Skywalker movie reaaaaaaallly going to be that good? I'd be shocked if it were that much better than "Solo"

Well, Solo was under Kennedy's supervision and was hurt by her bungled hiring of and communication with Lord and Miller. A Luke Skywalker movie would presumably be under the supervision or Favreau and/or Filoni and possibly with Lucas' involvement. Still, you never know, but there are reasons to be optimistic.
 
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There are enough legs under the rumor that it doesn't seem so silly any more. Since it first broke a couple of months ago, I've read a new article just about every week that's added more fuel and given more details. Then, just last week, came the news that Mark Hamill has signed a new deal with Lucasfilm. Since the news of Kennedy leaving next year, both Hamill and Lucas have reportedly shown new interest in the franchise. Something is brewing. What it'll lead to is unclear, and that may not include de-canonizing or changing the ST trilogy, but it looks like that's still one of the options on the table at the moment.

'Star Wars': Everything We Know About the Rumored Luke Skywalker Standalone Movie

I'm unsure how I would feel about a Luke Skywalker standalone film. I'm all for wiping out the ST and if this would be the start of that I'd be more supportive. I just feel like the Skywalker story overall came to a proper end after ROTJ.

For all the bad things that COVID-19 has caused, the one good thing to come out of it is that it robbed Kathleen Kennedy of the chance to further ruin Star Wars given her contract situation.
 
There are enough legs under the rumor that it doesn't seem so silly any more. Since it first broke a couple of months ago, I've read a new article just about every week that's added more fuel and given more details. Then, just last week, came the news that Mark Hamill has signed a new deal with Lucasfilm. Since the news of Kennedy leaving next year, both Hamill and Lucas have reportedly shown new interest in the franchise. Something is brewing. What it'll lead to is unclear, and that may not include de-canonizing or changing the ST trilogy, but it looks like that's still one of the options on the table at the moment.

'Star Wars': Everything We Know About the Rumored Luke Skywalker Standalone Movie
Who the hell is "Doomcock"?
 
I don't think they need to go the extremes of decanonizing the ST. It would probably be more of a headache than it's worth. Just focus on other areas or characters moving forward. If they want the franchise to have a future they're going to have to get away from the Skywalker saga and start building up new characters anyway.

What's the point of decanonizing the ST really? So somebody can come back and redo it? So we can go over the same era and characters again? Nobody is forcing people to watch these films or even consider them canon. Is it really so hard for people to ignore parts of a fictional universe they don't like?
 
Who the hell is "Doomcock"?
Overlord DVD on youtube. He does a lot of Star Wars leaks videos and is about 80% accurate, which makes him the best source for speculations.

In regards to all the current rumors about "Lucas cuts", "JJ cuts", and new trilogies...I for one don't really care what happens going forward. I want Disney to make good movies and TV shows, however - even if they do, they are not getting any of my $$$$ until they acknowledge their mistakes and issue an apology to the fanbase. Allowing their senior execs and employees to mock fans online for being upset about having their favorite characters ruined is not excusable. I want to see KK and RJ thrown under the bus by Disney or Lucasfilm before I start paying for movie tickets, DVDs or merchandise.
 
What's the point of decanonizing the ST really? So somebody can come back and redo it? So we can go over the same era and characters again? Nobody is forcing people to watch these films or even consider them canon. Is it really so hard for people to ignore parts of a fictional universe they don't like?

I would hope it would be for giving the eventual new people in charge of Lucasfilm a fresh slate for the post-ROTJ era and not forcing them to work around the mess that is the sequel trilogy for any new stories they would want to tell. De-canonization doesn't necessarily mean they would re-make the sequel trilogy, it would just give them much more creative freedom moving forward.
 
Overlord DVD on youtube. He does a lot of Star Wars leaks videos and is about 80% accurate, which makes him the best source for speculations.
The five minutes I took to google makes it appear that he doesn't provide much independent accurate insight himself, and whenever he is right it is because other outlets are reporting it and he is aping off those reports. Plus he has been banging on this "de-canonizing" talk for months, now.

Call me skeptical.
 
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I don't want more Luke or Han or any of them. I love all of the OT characters, but we know there story, and you don't need to know every single bit of detail of their life. That's one thing that bugged me about Solo, we didn't need a movie to tell us how he got all his stuff and how he got his last name. If you take the Solo parts out of the movie, it's a somewhat decent movie, sort of like Rogue One was. Don't really care about any of the characters in it, but a fun ride.

It's the same reason I'm not overly interested in the Obi-Wan series. Just try to do something original.

I guess they are doing that with Cassian Andor, but does anyone actually care about that character? And if they end up churning out a bench of SW series, is it going to feel like all the crime show spinoffs, where you wonder why they have 4 different Law & Orders or 6 different CSI's?
 
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I don't want more Luke or Han or any of them. I love all of the OT characters, but we know there story, and you don't need to know every single bit of detail of their life. That's one thing that bugged me about Solo, we didn't need a movie to tell us how he got all his stuff and how he got his last name. If you take the Solo parts out of the movie, it's a somewhat decent movie, sort of like Rogue One was. Don't really care about any of the characters in it, but a fun ride.

It's the same reason I'm not overly interested in the Obi-Wan series. Just try to do something original.

I guess they are doing that with Cassian Andor, but does anyone actually care about that character? And if they end up churning out a bench of SW series, is it going to feel like all the crime show spinoffs, where you wonder why they have 4 different Law & Orders or 6 different CSI's?

They want Star Wars series for Disney+ to get more subscribers, even if that involves throwing crap on the wall to see what sticks. I think the question is how many of these series that are confirmed or rumored will actually happen? COVID is going to make it difficult to start production on these series. By the time Disney can really get rolling on these series Kennedy may be out as the head of Lucasfilm, and her replacement could have different plans as far as Disney+ series and the overall direction of Star Wars.
 
I just want my Marvel-esque Star Wars universe of "Jedi" and "Sith" but framed differently on different systems. No Empire or Republic as the main force, just window-dressing.
 
So more Old Republic type?
Sure, maybe. I am not as well-versed on Star Wars lore as others (have only watched the movies and read one comic), so I can't say whether a specific aspect of the Old Republic would be enjoyable or not.

I just don't care to see more movies like Rogue One or Solo, trying to explain specific characters/plot devices from other movies.
 
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Sure, maybe. I am not as well-versed on Star Wars lore as others (have only watched the movies and read one comic), so I can't say whether a specific aspect of the Old Republic would be enjoyable or not.

I just don't care to see more movies like Rogue One or Solo, trying to explain specific characters/plot devices from other movies.
Gotcha. In simple terms, it's an era that has way more jedi/sith than what we are used to, more factions on the darkside before the rule of 2 was introduced by Bane. I think it would be interesting to see force-users of more than just the simple views of the current jedi/sith that we know. Maybe explore what made the jedi have some of their extreme views. It would at least free them of having to connect everything, that's what's holding them back IMO.
 

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