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Disney Star Wars General Discussion

ArGarBarGar said:
I think it is really weird that you are trying to diminish his experiences of discrimination and backlash for being cast as a major character in a Star Wars movie.
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I think that it's really weird that you're spinning what I said as that, especially when I said that it wasn't that.
 
ArGarBarGar said:
You can say it wasn't all you want, but that's what you did.
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No, I said that he faced backlash because he was cast as a Stormtrooper, not because he was simply cast as a major character in Star Wars. I even suggested that it would've been avoided if he'd been cast as Poe, instead.
 
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The fans who didn't think there should be a black stormtrooper - did they think that because they are racists? Or were they under the mistaken impression that stormtroopers were still Jango Fett clones?
 
Rogue One was the best movie for me followed by Solo! The new trilogy was worse than the prequels! I just hope they make strong streaming content enough trying to make huge block busters just make good stories for streaming series like Madolorian
 
ArGarBarGar said:
I think it is really weird that you are trying to diminish his experiences of discrimination and backlash for being cast as a major character in a Star Wars movie.
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Stop being obtuse. Finn's character-criticisms were overwhelmingly due to how poorly his character was written, and obviously not because of his skin color. You know perfectly well what Osprey was trying to say. Obfuscating the discussion, as per usual.
 
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Osprey said:
I believe that the unique way that the show is filmed factored a lot into this. Much of the CGI work was done in pre-production and during production, rather than after production, because they display it on the screens that surround the actors on stage. The camera records it and that's that, no post-production needed. Probably the only post-production that's needed is for shots in space, the Mandalorian's ship taking off and landing, minor special effects like gun blasts and explosions and those sorts of things, which they could likely re-use some of from Season 1.
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Yeah i posted a video about it somewhere in this thread. Instead of traditional CGI they use a bunch of LED screens and it's really cool.
 
Osprey said:
No, I said that he faced backlash because he was cast as a Stormtrooper, not because he was simply cast as a major character in Star Wars. I even suggested that it would've been avoided if he'd been cast as Poe, instead.
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And by trying to bring up what you think are legitimate criticisms, you are diminishing his experience of racism surrounding his casting. The legitimate criticisms aren't what he is talking about, and there absolutely was a group of Star Wars fans who treated him horribly because of his race.
 
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ArGarBarGar said:
And by trying to bring up what you think are legitimate criticisms, you are diminishing his experience of racism surrounding his casting. The legitimate criticisms aren't what he is talking about, and there absolutely was a group of Star Wars fans who treated him horribly because of his race.
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How is it wrong to bring up legitimate criticisms, and aren't you then guilty, yourself, by suggesting that they exist, but are just not what he's talking about? Regardless, you're mistaken. He mentions "you shouldn’t be a Stormtrooper" as an example of some of the comments that contributed to the experience that he's talking about, and I was responding to that.
 
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Osprey said:
How is it wrong to bring up legitimate criticisms, and aren't you then guilty, yourself, by suggesting that they exist, but are just not what he's talking about? Regardless, you're mistaken. He mentions "you shouldn’t be a Stormtrooper" as an example of some of the comments that contributed to the experience that he's talking about, and I was responding to that.
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Legitimate criticisms are completely irrelevant to what he is talking about, and he was quite clear on what segment of the fan base he had a problem with. Bringing up anything else in response to claim he is mistaken in some way is diminishing his experience. Especially since it is absolutely the case that racists went nuts over his casting because of his race.
 
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Suxnet said:
He's right. They portrayed him as some significant character in trailers and previews, but it turned out he was just a comic-relief side-character in the end. Disney just used his race to pander to black people. I'd be pissed too if I were him. Disney is such a shitty company.
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Yep. They went full in on identity politics for the sequels. Kathleen Kennedy's main goal of the sequel trilogy seemed to be to promote feminism, but in doing this she minimized the minority characters. Just ask John Boyega if you don't believe me.

Speaking of which, this quote is a huge shot at TLJ:

He is on a breathless roll now, breaking his long corporate omerta to touch on the unthinking, systemic mistreatment of black characters in blockbusters (“They’re always scared. They’re always fricking sweating”) and what he sees as the relative salvage job that returnee director JJ Abrams performed on The Rise Of Skywalker (“Everybody needs to leave my boy alone. He wasn’t even supposed to come back and try to save your shit”).
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ArGarBarGar said:
Legitimate criticisms are completely irrelevant to what he is talking about, and he was quite clear on what segment of the fan base he had a problem with. Bringing up anything else in response to claim he is mistaken in some way is diminishing his experience. Especially since it is absolutely the case that racists went nuts over his casting because of his race.
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Yep.

The existence of toxic fans isn't even remotely debatable. Anyone taking very legitimate concerns about that segment of the fanbase and trying to turn that into "well, actually his character wasn't well written" or whatever diminishes the very real concerns over toxic fans and further, I'd argue empowers those very specific toxic fans to dig in all the more. "See, I'm right," they'll say. You may not think you're defending them, but you are.

No tolerance or excuse making (even unintentional) for racists. Period.

Don't give racists free reign to be shitty human beings just because a movie wasn't as good as all of us hoped.
 
ArGarBarGar said:
Legitimate criticisms are completely irrelevant to what he is talking about, and he was quite clear on what segment of the fan base he had a problem with. Bringing up anything else in response to claim he is mistaken in some way is diminishing his experience. Especially since it is absolutely the case that racists went nuts over his casting because of his race.
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I responded to something that he was quoted as saying in the article, yet you're claiming that it's irrelevant to what he said. I'm interested in hearing your explanation for why bringing up criticism of black Stormtroopers is not relevant when he said, "black this and black that and you shouldn't be a Stormtrooper."
 
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KallioWeHardlyKnewYe said:
The number probably is small but they speak awful loudly. And they shouldn't be tolerated, excused or enabled. Period.
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Allowing people to lump greater numbers of people in with that small minority shouldn't be tolerated, excused or enabled, either, IMO. That's the danger is doing what you're suggesting. "Zero tolerance" is a nice idea, but it usually leads to a lot of false accusations. Here, you're effectively advocating that no one who is accused of racism should be defended because that emboldens and excuses the real racists. I can't get behind that at all. It seems very un-democratic to me. We shouldn't refrain from granting defense to anyone just so that none of the guilty escape punishment, IMO.
 
Osprey said:
I responded to something that he was quoted as saying in the article, yet you're claiming that it's irrelevant to what he said. I'm interested in hearing your explanation for why bringing up criticism of black Stormtroopers is not relevant when he said, "black this... black that... you shouldn't be a Stormtrooper."
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Read the full quote:

“I’m the only cast member who had their own unique experience of that franchise based on their race,” he says, holding my gaze. “Let’s just leave it like that. It makes you angry with a process like that. It makes you much more militant; it changes you. Because you realise, ‘I got given this opportunity but I’m in an industry that wasn’t even ready for me.’ Nobody else in the cast had people saying they were going to boycott the movie because [they were in it]. Nobody else had the uproar and death threats sent to their Instagram DMs and social media, saying, ‘Black this and black that and you shouldn’t be a Stormtrooper.’ Nobody else had that experience. But yet people are surprised that I’m this way. That’s my frustration.”
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It's a general statement regarding the vitriol he himself experienced due to his race, including death threats and boycotts and general distrust of his casting due to being black, and he is paraphrasing that last part.

You are hyper focused on one little part of that one sentence that isn't a specific tie-in to any criticisms from a creative standpoint (though being critical of a black person in a stormtrooper outfit without knowing why he is in a stormtrooper outfit was kind of odd in the first place), and trying to explain why he is wrong in feeling that what he experienced was racism as a result. That is diminishing his experience.

He is talking about the same kind of people who did shit like this:
 
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Osprey said:
Allowing people to lump greater numbers of people in with that small minority shouldn't be tolerated, excused or enabled, either, IMO. That's the danger is doing what you're suggesting. "Zero tolerance" is a nice idea, but it usually leads to a lot of false accusations. Here, you're effectively advocating that no one who is accused of racism should be defended because that emboldens and excuses the real racists. I can't get behind that at all. It seems very un-democratic to me. We shouldn't refrain from granting defense to anyone just so that none of the guilty escape punishment, IMO.
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I'm not accusing you (or others here) of racism at all.

If I'm following, I actually agree with you that a story or creative problem isn't necessarily a race problem. But my point is that changing the subject to a creative or story matter and away from the racial issue Boyega was talking about minimizes what Boyega was saying.

The racism he experienced is real and documented. Trying to turn it into a disagreement over some other aspect of the story or character is a disservice to his experience. I think it's shitty to do that.

I certainly have greater thoughts on race, power dynamics, victim blaming and false accusations among other topics, but I honestly can't get into that without this getting real political real fast so I'm going to respectfully bow out at this point and wish y'all a fine day.
 
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