Disney Star Wars General Discussion

[Jussi]

Overlord DVD on youtube. He does a lot of Star Wars leaks videos and is about 80% accurate, which makes him the best source for speculations.

In regards to all the current rumors about "Lucas cuts", "JJ cuts", and new trilogies...I for one don't really care what happens going forward. I want Disney to make good movies and TV shows, however - even if they do, they are not getting any of my $$$$ until they acknowledge their mistakes and issue an apology to the fanbase. Allowing their senior execs and employees to mock fans online for being upset about having their favorite characters ruined is not excusable. I want to see KK and RJ thrown under the bus by Disney or Lucasfilm before I start paying for movie tickets, DVDs or merchandise.

Nope:

 

[Tawnos]

I don't want more Luke or Han or any of them. I love all of the OT characters, but we know there story, and you don't need to know every single bit of detail of their life. That's one thing that bugged me about Solo, we didn't need a movie to tell us how he got all his stuff and how he got his last name. If you take the Solo parts out of the movie, it's a somewhat decent movie, sort of like Rogue One was. Don't really care about any of the characters in it, but a fun ride.

It's the same reason I'm not overly interested in the Obi-Wan series. Just try to do something original.

I guess they are doing that with Cassian Andor, but does anyone actually care about that character? And if they end up churning out a bench of SW series, is it going to feel like all the crime show spinoffs, where you wonder why they have 4 different Law & Orders or 6 different CSI's?

I absolutely agree that they need to get off the century of stories we've had. And I *love* the idea of getting into smaller stories that Favreau is talking about. At this point, this isn't just a Star Wars thing. Every franchise needs to get off the existential threat focus... SW, ST, MCU, DCEU... all of them. The biggest reason the PT stories work, despite their execution problems, is that they're just small stories about Anakin and Obi Wan told in a setting of grandeur. This is the same reason the OT worked so well, and the the same reason why the Nolan Batman movies worked so well. There are existential threats in some of these movies, but the movies aren't about them. It's the same reason I liked TLJ so much, despite its own execution problems. That was ultimately 3 small stories (Rey/Ren/Luke, Finn/Rose, Poe) set in one big plot, without the existential threat on top of it all. My central criticism of TRoS is that it went too big, too fast. The best thing they've done in the DCEU was the first 2/3 of Wonder Woman... small story until they ramped it up for a shitty ending. Both ST Discovery and Picard have suffered when they've pulled existential threats into the plot. To your thought about Solo and Rogue One, I believe this idea is part of why those movies worked for me too.

Keep it small, and they'll be better off.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I absolutely agree that they need to get off the century of stories we've had. And I *love* the idea of getting into smaller stories that Favreau is talking about. At this point, this isn't just a Star Wars thing. Every franchise needs to get off the existential threat focus... SW, ST, MCU, DCEU... all of them. The biggest reason the PT stories work, despite their execution problems, is that they're just small stories about Anakin and Obi Wan told in a setting of grandeur. This is the same reason the OT worked so well, and the the same reason why the Nolan Batman movies worked so well. There are existential threats in some of these movies, but the movies aren't about them. It's the same reason I liked TLJ so much, despite its own execution problems. That was ultimately 3 small stories (Rey/Ren/Luke, Finn/Rose, Poe) set in one big plot, without the existential threat on top of it all. My central criticism of TRoS is that it went too big, too fast. The best thing they've done in the DCEU was the first 2/3 of Wonder Woman... small story until they ramped it up for a shitty ending. Both ST Discovery and Picard have suffered when they've pulled existential threats into the plot. To your thought about Solo and Rogue One, I believe this idea is part of why those movies worked for me too.

Keep it small, and they'll be better off.

Yeah, you don't really need this super convoluted plot in SW. The OT is beloved because we loved the trio, their interactions with each other, their banter. Luke started off as that underdog and grew into the ultimate hero, Han was the cool guy, and Leia was the badass that wasn't going to take crap from anyone. We loved the characters first. The PT and ST had that at times, but not at others. The PT tried more, but at times failed because of bad chemistry or bad writing. The ST had it in scenes, but TRoS just was so much plot.

In all the quality SW content, it's always been more character centric as opposed to plot. Maybe my favorite being KOTOR, and it had the luxury being a long role-playing game, was still character focused to make you fall in love with them as the introduced the big plot closer to the end after you've played hours and hours.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, you don't really need this super convoluted plot in SW. The OT is beloved because we loved the trio, their interactions with each other, their banter. Luke started off as that underdog and grew into the ultimate hero, Han was the cool guy, and Leia was the badass that wasn't going to take crap from anyone. We loved the characters first. The PT and ST had that at times, but not at others. The PT tried more, but at times failed because of bad chemistry or bad writing. The ST had it in scenes, but TRoS just was so much plot.

In all the quality SW content, it's always been more character centric as opposed to plot. Maybe my favorite being KOTOR, and it had the luxury being a long role-playing game, was still character focused to make you fall in love with them as the introduced the big plot closer to the end after you've played hours and hours.

I mean, think about the best arcs in The Clone Wars too. They're all really character focused and not really battle focused.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I mean, think about the best arcs in The Clone Wars too. They're all really character focused and not really battle focused.

Agreed, wasn't leaving that out either. That show makes the PT a million times better. I bet the people that like Anakin as a character were probably Clone Wars fans. Movie Anakin was flawed in just a flawed way, CW Anakin was flawed in a sympathetic way. It's why Ahsoka is loved because we saw her develop as a character, we saw her have fun banter with main characters, she made Anakin better.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Nope:

Cool story bro.

 

[Tawnos]

Agreed, wasn't leaving that out either. That show makes the PT a million times better. I bet the people that like Anakin as a character were probably Clone Wars fans. Movie Anakin was flawed in just a flawed way, CW Anakin was flawed in a sympathetic way.

Some of those plots were pretty damn convoluted though

I think, if The Mandalorian is any indication, we might be headed this direction. We'll see what they did for S2, but S1 was definitely in the vein of what we're talking about. It's a pretty small, character driven story. It's been 9 months and I'm still marveling at how much they were able to do with a character whose face we never see. It wasn't perfect, but it was definitely something to watch.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Some of those plots were pretty damn convoluted though

I think, if The Mandalorian is any indication, we might be headed this direction. We'll see what they did for S2, but S1 was definitely in the vein of what we're talking about. It's a pretty small, character driven story. It's been 9 months and I'm still marveling at how much they were able to do with a character whose face we never see. It wasn't perfect, but it was definitely something to watch.

Yeah, and even in one of the best arcs, Mortis, I think there is a misunderstanding of why it's great. The plot in that arc is very convoluted and all over the place at times, but it's the character interactions and Anakin's development that makes it a great arc. There is some important lore aspects in there, but that's not the reason why it's a great arc.

Yeah, they did great work with Mando. Two of the main characters were a dude with a mask and a puppet, and their interactions with each other are some of the best in the franchise.

 

[bleedblue1223]

John Boyega: 'I’m the only cast member whose experience of Star Wars was based on their race'

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I can understand Boyega's frustrations.

Rian killed his character in TLJ, and JJ didn't really try to salvage whatever was left in TROS

It's interesting, Kathleen Kennedy gets painted by some as this "woke person" (I hate that word) trying to push and advance POC & women in the star wars universe, and yet all the POC in the sequel trilogy got a raw deal.

I do commend him for speaking his mind though, he's never going to get another job with Disney but so be it.

 

[discostu]

I liked TLJ, but didn't like where Finn's character went, and can definitely see Boyegas frustration.

There's probably a lot of interesting conversations that can be had about what happened on the production of this trilogy, but, given how emotionally charged the fan base is, there's not going to be a lot of room for that type of thing.

On another note, I saws this posted today



I have no idea how Disney managed to get a second season ready for air so quickly, and the lack of a proper trailer doesn't make me optimistic.

I was fairly lukewarm on the first season. It had its moments, but, not something I felt compelled to watch. Given lack of other new shows or seasons, barring really bad feedback, I expect to watch it.

 

[Shockmaster]

I can understand Boyega's frustrations.

Rian killed his character in TLJ, and JJ didn't really try to salvage whatever was left in TROS

It's interesting, Kathleen Kennedy gets painted by some as this "woke person" (I hate that word) trying to push and advance POC & women in the star wars universe, and yet all the POC in the sequel trilogy got a raw deal.

I do commend him for speaking his mind though, he's never going to get another job with Disney but so be it.

Just another example of Disney not having a true plan with the sequel trilogy.

 

[Shockmaster]

I have no idea how Disney managed to get a second season ready for air so quickly, and the lack of a proper trailer doesn't make me optimistic.

I was fairly lukewarm on the first season. It had its moments, but, not something I felt compelled to watch. Given lack of other new shows or seasons, barring really bad feedback, I expect to watch it.

Filming for season 2 wrapped 5 days before lockdowns started to go into effect.

 

[discostu]

Filming for season 2 wrapped 5 days before lockdowns started to go into effect.

Lucky break for them

But, not having an ability to do any reshoots, and having post production happening virtually probably is an additional challenge, but, having a marquee program to air when there's not likely to be much competition will help their Disney plus subscriptions.

 

[bleedblue1223]

It really is too bad they didn't go more into the motivations and reasons behind Han joining the Empire and Finn being forced into the First Order. It's a difference between the OT and Disney era. The OT had very clear political themes, but they were subtle enough where it wasn't in your face. With Han in Solo, they could've played it up more of how the military relies on the working class in recruitment, and with Finn they could've gone more into how in many areas child slaves are forced into battle. A missed opportunity.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I mean, what Rian did with Finn in TLJ was a million times better than whatever JJ did in TROS.

I also wish more actors were as outspoken as John Boyega, whether I agree with them or not.

 

[Shockmaster]

I mean, what Rian did with Finn in TLJ was a million times better than whatever JJ did in TROS.

I also wish more actors were as outspoken as John Boyega, whether I agree with them or not.

All Johnson did was have him run off to some planet and save some space horses. After what Johnson did there was no salvaging the character regardless of which direction they would have gone for Episode IX. Of course, there was really no salvaging the entire trilogy after TLJ.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I mean, what Rian did with Finn in TLJ was a million times better than whatever JJ did in TROS.

I also wish more actors were as outspoken as John Boyega, whether I agree with them or not.

In your summation, what was that? To me, it's not even a JJ vs RJ thing.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

In your summation, what was that?

Finn went from caring about himself and people he directly cared about to caring about things greater than himself. It is similar to what happens with Pippin in The Two Towers. I found that much more compelling and engaging than what we got of Finn in TROS.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Finn went from caring about himself and people he directly cared about to caring about things greater than himself. It is similar to what happens with Pippin in The Two Towers. I found that much more compelling and engaging than what we got of Finn in TROS.

Fair enough. That's why I thought his self-sacrifice in TLJ would've been gut-wrenching and meaningful. Sort of like Obi-Wan's sacrifice that allowed Luke and the gang to escape, although there were more motivations there.

 

[johnjm22]

John Boyega: 'I’m the only cast member whose experience of Star Wars was based on their race'

Gotta love when white feminism takes precedence over minorities.

 

[Shockmaster]

Gotta love when white feminism takes precedence over minorities.

The Force is a racist female?

 

[Osprey]

John Boyega: 'I’m the only cast member whose experience of Star Wars was based on their race'

He's mad at fans for being upset at his casting, yet he's implied elsewhere that he's not very happy with how the trilogy turned out. Maybe, just maybe, the fans were onto something? No one cared that a black man was cast in a Star Wars movie. The OT had Billy Dee Williams. What some cared about is that casting him as a Stormtrooper seemed wrong for Star Wars and a clumsy attempt at diversity. They could've simply reversed the races of Finn and Poe and the backlash wouldn't have occurred, so it wasn't an objection to diversity, itself. Looking back, it was an early sign that the folks behind the trilogy didn't really understand Star Wars and had the wrong priorities. I don't blame him for taking the backlash personally and getting the wrong idea about it, but enough time has passed that, maybe, he should take a step back and consider that he and the fans might, more or less, be disappointed with the same people.

 

[Osprey]

I have no idea how Disney managed to get a second season ready for air so quickly, and the lack of a proper trailer doesn't make me optimistic.

I believe that the unique way that the show is filmed factored a lot into this. Much of the CGI work is done in pre-production and during production because they need to display it on the screens that surround the actors on stage. The camera records it and that's that, no post-production needed. Probably the only post-production that's needed is for shots in space, the Mandalorian's ship taking off and landing, minor special effects like gun blasts and explosions and those sorts of things, which they could likely re-use some of from Season 1.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

He's mad at fans for being upset at his casting, yet he's implied elsewhere that he's not very happy with how the trilogy turned out. Maybe, just maybe, the fans were onto something? No one cared that a black man was cast in a Star Wars movie. The OT had Billy Dee Williams. What some cared about is that casting him as a Stormtrooper seemed wrong for Star Wars and a clumsy attempt at diversity. They could've simply reversed the races of Finn and Poe and the backlash wouldn't have occurred, so it wasn't an objection to diversity, itself. Looking back, it was an early sign that the folks behind the trilogy didn't really understand Star Wars and had the wrong priorities. I don't blame him for taking the backlash personally and getting the wrong idea about it, but enough time has passed that, maybe, he should take a step back and consider that he and the fans might, more or less, be disappointed with the same people.

I think it is really weird that you are trying to diminish his experiences of discrimination and backlash for being cast as a major character in a Star Wars movie.