Discussion: Is there a team culture problem with this group?

[Tnuoc Alucard]

People are making some excellent points about the young stars in the league, expecting and receiving an eight year contract extension.

They come from a generation that pretty much had their parents give them everything, protect them from anything negative in life, and grew up without facing too much adversity in any way.

it’s like there counterparts joining the workforce expecting to be a senior vice president right out of the gate, as they were brought up that way by parents that gave them everything and never made them work for anything… they feel entitled.

But eventually life hits them straight on in the face, and when they realize they’re expected to start in the Mail room and work their way up in the organization they’re not mentally equipped to handle adversity and a challenge. Some even bring their parents in to speak to HR expecting to have them expedite their situation and have the corner office handed to them, just like they had everything handed to them while growing up.

 

[BondraTime]

 

[Tuna99]

People are making some excellent points about the young stars in the league, expecting and receiving an eight year contract extension.

They come from a generation that pretty much had their parents give them everything, protect them from anything negative in life, and grew up without facing too much adversity in any way.

it’s like there counterparts joining the workforce expecting to be a senior vice president right out of the gate, as they were brought up that way by parents that gave them everything and never made them work for anything… they feel entitled.

But eventually life hits them straight on in the face, and when they realize they’re expected to start in the Mail room and work their way up in the organization they’re not mentally equipped to handle adversity and a challenge. Some even bring their parents in to speak to HR expecting to have them expedite their situation and have the corner office handed to them, just like they had everything handed to them while growing up.

I’ve said for years it’s Keith Tkak’s fault Brady never worked a mailroom and made the NHL at a 18 and became a Captain a 21.

If Tkachuk had washed cars for a summer we wouldn’t be in the league basement

 

[lancepitlick]

Dorion didn't trade Karlsson, I did. And I signed Colin White and Jonny Oduya.

 

[Wondercarrot]

There isn’t a culture problem - there has been a massive goaltending problem, roster construction problem, and ridiculous asset management problem. .

Despite all the words typed here about previous management it’s still almost impossible to overstate what a worthless bunch of f***ing losers we had putting this all together.
It’s almost inconceivable to finish bottom 5 again after 7 years of brutal finishes, have literally the worst prospect pool in hockey, not a single prospect in the top 75 (nor in the 25 next honourable mentions), not have a 1st in 1 of the next 3 years.

 

[BondraTime]

There isn’t a culture problem has been a massive goaltending problem, roster construction problem, and ridiculous asset management problem. .

Despite all the words typed here about previous management it’s still almost impossible to overstate what a worthless bunch of f***ing losers we had putting this all together.
It’s almost inconceivable to finish bottom 5 again after 7 years of brutal finishes, have literally the worst prospect pool in hockey, not a single prospect in the top 75 (nor in the 25 next honourable mentions), not have a 1st in 1 of the next 3 years.

That list is as good as any list made by an HF boards poster taken at random.

Actually, I think I'd take a Wheeler list with less credibility

He's the genius that had Stutzle 7th, Sanderson 20th and Grieg outside the top 70 in 2020.

The Sens pool is horrific though

 

[bert]

Bunch of friends on the team that haven’t accomplished anything and rewarded with huge contracts are not playing up to expectations at all. The team lacks true professionals, we have players going to different organizations playoffs games and getting hammered, commenting about other players contract statuses, complaining about fans, flopping on the ice and being known as the face of the leagues new flopper and some even too busy gambling on NHL going against team rules.

Debrincat probably was shocked coming into this locker room even from an organization like Chicago with their own issues. Spezza and Redden were crucified from small rumors and they were even on winning teams. This current group is full of bozos.

Yawn. Only negative, every post. Never a positive take. The gambling comment shows your motive.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Actions speak louder than words.

When anything that could be remotely interpreted, even an innocuous slightly negative comment, the SS defenders jump into action.

So using your logic we can apply this to you always giving the previous regime a pass then

 

[bert]

This team from the start, have a culture of bad management. Every time the wrong decision. And the new management doesn’t seem to be better

Based on what exactly? They took over in pre season. It's a billion dollar asset. They're evaluating.

If you have been a fan of this team long enough you've seen the only time they have had consistent sustained success. It was basically from 1997 to 2008. Since then it's been a roller coaster up fluke runs and lately absolutely putrid play.

The sens are what they are a small market Canadian team that is one of the least desirable places to play. There's only one way to have success in this type of market. It's to draft develop and keep your home grown talent because they will be loyal. You only make trades if you have to/when you have to.. Aka when the team is ready to compete has a proven track record of success or when it's time to move on from a player because they don't fit or when a player forces a deal.

Winnipeg is in a very similar situation. The difference there is they have the self realization of what they are. Their management follows the same ideology of the sens who had their sustained success. A very patient approach. I think/hope current management has identified this. Big flashy trades burning futures doesn't work for this type of market. In this type of model. The sens have a great core 24/25 and under if you include Batherson. For me the rest can go, time to start over and keep the 7/8 assets and trade the rest for prospects and picks. Use the cap space and be prudent signing free agents. Do this organically the right way. They simply aren't a quick fix away right now.

That's gonna involve patience. This management group appears to have it. The fans will too if they want to see a winner.

Right now though they have to sell Tarasenko and Chychrun for whatever the best available package is.

If someone want to take Brannstrom for a middle round pick do it. Probably have to retain. If a team will take Forsberg for taking Branntstrom to him. Great do it.

If a team will give anything for Kubalik then do it. Even if the sens have to retain half.

 

[GCK]

Based on what exactly? They took over in pre season. It's a billion dollar asset. They're evaluating.

If you have been a fan of this team long enough you've seen the only time they have had consistent sustained success. It was basically from 1997 to 2008. Since then it's been a roller coaster up fluke runs and lately absolutely putrid play.

The sens are what they are a small market Canadian team that is one of the least desirable places to play. There's only one way to have success in this type of market. It's to draft develop and keep your home grown talent because they will be loyal. You only make trades if you have to/when you have to.. Aka when the team is ready to compete has a proven track record of success or when it's time to move on from a player because they don't fit or when a player forces a deal.

Winnipeg is in a very similar situation. The difference there is they have the self realization of what they are. Their management follows the same ideology of the sens who had their sustained success. A very patient approach. I think/hope current management has identified this. Big flashy trades burning futures doesn't work for this type of market. In this type of model. The sens have a great core 24/25 and under if you include Batherson. For me the rest can go, time to start over and keep the 7/8 assets and trade the rest for prospects and picks. Use the cap space and be prudent signing free agents. Do this organically the right way. They simply aren't a quick fix away right now.

That's gonna involve patience. This management group appears to have it. The fans will too if they want to see a winner.

Right now though they have to sell Tarasenko and Chychrun for whatever the best available package is.

If someone want to take Brannstrom for a middle round pick do it. Probably have to retain. If a team will take Forsberg for taking Branntstrom to him. Great do it.

If a team will give anything for Kubalik then do it. Even if the sens have to retain half.

I think @Crosside is still upset we didn’t hire Pat Roy.

 

[Wondercarrot]

That list is as good as any list made by an HF boards poster taken at random.

Actually, I think I'd take a Wheeler list with less credibility

He's the genius that had Stutzle 7th, Sanderson 20th and Grieg outside the top 70 in 2020.

The Sens pool is horrific though

That fair abt Wheeler, it was really just the latest example of how universally shitty our prospect pool is viewed.
Which is of course a preposterous f***ing joke given how brutally shitty we have been for 7 years.

 

[BondraTime]

That fair abt Wheeler, it was really just the latest example of how universally shitty our prospect pool is viewed.
Which is of course a preposterous f***ing joke given how brutally shitty we have been for 7 years.

And to be fair, our best prospect is Kleven.

He's having an extremely, extremely good year, even statistically.

He's undoubtedly a top 75 prospect leaguewide, likely much higher.

He's also one of the players Wheeler has no time for. He isn't big on projecting NHL players, he really, really relies on stats and skill and does not care for size or NHL transferability.

Kleven was deep in the hundreds in his 2020 ranking. His D partner in Faber as well was outside the top 100. Both defensive guys.

He dislikes guys, and continues to dislike them regardless of progression on NHL projectability.

His initial, way, WAY off the mark evaluation of Kleven is very likely factoring into his new off the mark evaluations.

Same goes for Ostapchuk, he's a very good prospect, will be a very good bottom 6 guy for the Sens. Will never be valued by guys like Wheeler.

 

[bert]

This team from the start, have a culture of bad management. Every time the wrong decision. And the new management doesn’t seem to be better

Based on what exactly? They took over in pre season. It's a billion dollar asset. They're evaluating.

If you have been a fan of this team long enough you've seen the only time they have had consistent success. It was basically from 1997 to 2008. Since then it's been a roller coaster up fluke runs and lately absolutely putrid play.

The sens are what they are a small market Canadian team that is one of the least desirable places to play. There's only one way to have success in this type of market. It's to draft develop and keep your home grown talent because they will be loyal. You only make trades if you have to/when you have to. When the team is ready to compete or when it's time to move on from a player or when a player forces a deal.

Winnipeg is in a very similar situation. The difference there is they have the self realization of what they are. Their management follows the same ideology of the sens who had their sustained success. I think/hope current management has identified this. Big flashy trades burning futures doesn't work for this type of market. In this type of model. The sens have a great core 24/25 and under if you include Batherson. For me the rest can go, time to start over and keep the to7/8 assets and trade the rest for prospects and picks. Use the cap space and be prudent signing free agents. Do this organically the right way. They simply aren't a quick fix away right now.
That's gonna involve ppatience. This management group appears to have it.

And to be fair, our best prospect is Kleven.

He's having an extremely, extremely good year, even statistically.

He's undoubtedly a top 75 prospect leaguewide, likely much higher.

He's also one of the players Wheeler has no time for. He isn't big on projecting NHL players, he really, really relies on stats and skill and does not care for size or NHL transferability.

Kleven was a do not draft for him, was deep in the hundreds in his ranking.

He dislikes guys, and continues to dislike them regardless of progression on NHL projectability.

His initial, way, WAY off the mark evaluation of Kleven is very likely factoring into his new off the mark evaluations.

Yeah he's the only good prospect they have which is insane given where this organization has been for 3/4 of a decade. Wondercarrot is right in his position.

 

[Beech]

Calgary's ownership has been so opposed to a rebuild that management had to walk back the word in camp this year in joking fashion. If anything, Calgary fans were clamoring for a proper rebuild more than the team wanted to go there.

And as bad as the Huberdeau contract is, he was like 4th in league scoring over a 5 year period or something. There was a track record. It was more of a Jack Campbell than a Joonas Korpisalo. He had the track record on paper and completely cratered. At least Weegar is a steal, even at his new price.

bon,

The hierarchy in Hockey (and most North American Pro sports is) is:
1) Sales and marketing
2) Sales and marketing
3) Sales and marketing
;
;
1,500,003) hockey decisions

85 M is CAP.. it is 50% of revenue (average). Meaning most teams need to generate 170 M to survive. Work the math backwards.. it pretty much means a full building for 41 home dates and 3 pre-season dates

Once you are less than a full building, loses.. So, a happy fan is key. If you cannot give him wins, you give him "sports heroes".. A popular athlete is worth way more than an unpopular one.

And so rule 1... "stars".."fan favorites". Take a look at Pittsburg,, It is exactly that.

It is up to us the fans to learn to watch the team without an attachment to individual players, but an attachment to the team.

The more we see players as nameless, faceless, the better. Then we can allow or force decisions based upon team success and not emotionality.

The best examples of this are many of the élite European soccer clubs.. Players are moved on regularly. Some, while they still have fuel in the tank. In Europe, you cheer for Real Madrid. Jude Billingham is but a candle in the wind. He is here now, he will be gone tomorrow. At season's end, the teams will have a 2 minute ceremony honoring the players that are departing. They give them a small memento. The fans cheer and good bye.

Nameless, faceless. Now no need to give some 8 x Y to some guy who is in year 2 of his ELC and spent year 1 in college and 9 games in the AHL.

We should, as fans, see the players as commodities. Ones that can be moved to improve the team.

Tkachuk, Sanderson, Stuzzle, Greig, Pinto.. Lego pieces.. That is it. Move them on, when needed. do not give them insane contracts. DO not market around them, but around the team.

 

[Loach]

bon,

The hierarchy in Hockey (and most North American Pro sports is) is:
1) Sales and marketing
2) Sales and marketing
3) Sales and marketing
;
;
1,500,003) hockey decisions

85 M is CAP.. it is 50% of revenue (average). Meaning most teams need to generate 170 M to survive. Work the math backwards.. it pretty much means a full building for 41 home dates and 3 pre-season dates

Once you are less than a full building, loses.. So, a happy fan is key. If you cannot give him wins, you give him "sports heroes".. A popular athlete is worth way more than an unpopular one.

And so rule 1... "stars".."fan favorites". Take a look at Pittsburg,, It is exactly that.

It is up to us the fans to learn to watch the team without an attachment to individual players, but an attachment to the team.

The more we see players as nameless, faceless, the better. Then we can allow or force decisions based upon team success and not emotionality.

The best examples of this are many of the élite European soccer clubs.. Players are moved on regularly. Some, while they still have fuel in the tank. In Europe, you cheer for Real Madrid. Jude Billingham is but a candle in the wind. He is here now, he will be gone tomorrow. At season's end, the teams will have a 2 minute ceremony honoring the players that are departing. They give them a small memento. The fans cheer and good bye.

Nameless, faceless. Now no need to give some 8 x Y to some guy who is in year 2 of his ELC and spent year 1 in college and 9 games in the AHL.

We should, as fans, see the players as commodities. Ones that can be moved to improve the team.

Tkachuk, Sanderson, Stuzzle, Greig, Pinto.. Lego pieces.. That is it. Move them on, when needed. do not give them insane contracts. DO not market around them, but around the team.

You win. Xspyrit...hand over your Long & Rambling & Long Winded Post & It Goes Off Track & Quote Yourself Crown. There is a new guy in town. His name is Beech.

 

[Beech]

You win. Xspyrit...hand over your Long & Rambling & Long Winded Post & It Goes Off Track & Quote Yourself Crown. There is a new guy in town. His name is Beech.

I love you too Loach.

Have you gotten by the 1 x Y table in math yet, or still struggling?

 

[kilroy]

What about losing a 1st in next 3 drafts when do you think they will choose to forfeit it 2026??

They'll do it as late as possible.

 

[Loach]

I love you too Loach.

Have you gotten by the 1 x Y table in math yet, or still struggling?

Calculator face

 

[swiftwin]

Nobody is being held accountable.

You've got a team full of players signed long term.
You've got a GM who seems terrified to make any moves (literally hasn't made a single move).
You've got a coach who isn't going to be around next year.
There's no chance of making the playoffs.

Under these circumstances, there's no motivating factor. The players don't fear getting traded, their contracts are secure, and the coach won't be around next year.

At least with Dorion, the players feared getting traded if they didn't perform. Just look at how good Joseph was earlier in the season.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Nobody is being held accountable.

You've got a team full of players signed long term.
You've got a GM who seems terrified to make any moves (literally hasn't made a single move).
You've got a coach who isn't going to be around next year.
There's no chance of making the playoffs.

Under these circumstances, there's no motivating factor. The players don't fear getting traded, their contracts are secure, and the coach won't be around next year.

At least with Dorion, the players feared getting traded if they didn't perform. Just look at how good Joseph was earlier in the season.

Not gonna lie, the bolded did make me chuckle.

 

[BondraTime]

Unbelievably hilarious

 

[PlayOn]

Nobody is being held accountable.

You've got a team full of players signed long term.
You've got a GM who seems terrified to make any moves (literally hasn't made a single move).
You've got a coach who isn't going to be around next year.
There's no chance of making the playoffs.

Under these circumstances, there's no motivating factor. The players don't fear getting traded, their contracts are secure, and the coach won't be around next year.

At least with Dorion, the players feared getting traded if they didn't perform. Just look at how good Joseph was earlier in the season.

Maybe having Dorion as GM for so long has skewed your perspective but it’s really okay to not make 75 moves a year and to focus on quality over quantity.

Staios hasn’t even had a single off-season to do anything, not sure why the players would feel secure when there is conversation every day that he’s looking to make moves this summer.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Nobody is being held accountable.

You've got a team full of players signed long term.
You've got a GM who seems terrified to make any moves (literally hasn't made a single move).
You've got a coach who isn't going to be around next year.
There's no chance of making the playoffs.

Under these circumstances, there's no motivating factor. The players don't fear getting traded, their contracts are secure, and the coach won't be around next year.

At least with Dorion, the players feared getting traded if they didn't perform. Just look at how good Joseph was earlier in the season.

Lazy bum Staios hasn't even shopped our 1st round pick yet. C'mon, that's our yearly tradition.

 

[Senscore]

On the plus side, Staios hasn't done anything stupid in the several months he's been GM.

Haven't seen a streak like that in a while

 

[BondraTime]

On the plus side, Staios hasn't done anything stupid in the several months he's been GM.

Haven't seen a streak like that in a while

Going back close to a decade