Discussion: Is there a team culture problem with this group?

[Micklebot]

I don’t think those who haven’t played hockey, lacrosse, soccer, etc at a semi high level realize how energy sucking and demoralizing soft early goals can be to a group if it’s a regular occurrence. 4 or 5 a year is one thing but giving up those kinds of goals regularly really has a huge effect.

Based on the reactions in the GDT threads they are living it, how many times do people write off the game when we go down a couple goals early?

That said, your point is valid, having no confidence in your goalie ruins teams. I'll give Dorion this, he really wanted to address the goaltending, he just struck out all three attempts.

 

[bicboi64]

When you go full rebuild like the Sens did after 2017 you have to wait awhile for things to recover. We have one of the youngest clubs in the NHL even with guys like Giroux.

The mistake Sens management made was not surrounding the young players with quality vets. Giroux is the only one that comes to mind that can teach the youth to play well consistently. This teams need to retool the defense with Zub and Sanderson as the two anchors.

Couldn't agree more. We had guys that were decent enough vets or players at their position for a rebuild but we let them go for shite reasons. Keeping Ryan, DeMelo, or even Duclair. Keep guys that have fought to be in the league instead of finding absolute scrubs on the excuse of high character.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[majormajor]

Couldn't agree more. We had guys that were decent enough vets or players at their position for a rebuild but we let them go for shite reasons. Keeping Ryan, DeMelo, or even Duclair. Keep guys that have fought to be in the league instead of finding absolute scrubs on the excuse of high character.

Nick Paul and DeMelo.

Duclair is a good player but not what this team is missing.

 

[Answer]

These guys have never actually had to play in a high pressure situation with their jobs on the line. They don’t give a crap about winning. They all secured their contracts..

For example, what exactly has Sanderson done to merit that contract coming out of his rookie year? Norris/Stutzle already getting paid, Tkachuk, Batherson, etc. Remember Tkachuk doing the money symbol to Norris during Norris’ contract year?

This is a group of young guys who have all secured their future. Winning is secondary to vibes at the moment. During the offseason these guys are nothing but smiles while enjoying their tropical vacations.

If that is true than I would literally trade both of them right away. Show a lot about their character and priority if they are flexing like that during games Infront of everyone to see

 

[JungleBeat]

For all the hate the Leafs core get about having no pulse in the playoffs at least they get there…

Mathews, Nylander, Marner and Reilly brought the Leafs to the playoffs in Mathews rookie season - all younger than Tkachuk is now.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Honestly, I think there's a bit of a culture problem across the league. The younger players and the way the CBA is structured really puts too much power and influence on guys who are (mostly) too young to handle it. Cutting out bridge contracts makes the problem so much worse. Giving the C to 20-year-olds. Making a teenager the face of a franchise.

It's not a Senators exclusive problem.

 

[JungleBeat]

If that is true than I would literally trade both of them right away. Show a lot about their character and priority if they are flexing like that during games Infront of everyone to see

It was after a Norris goal. Brady was “celebrating” on the bench doing the money sign to Norris as he came for fist bumps - I was suspicious of Brady’s motives after seeing that..and then there’s this:

[https://x.com/everydaysens/status/1510787280411238403?s=46&t=frhAJm22LcWUtwun9vePLw

 

[StoicSensFan]

For all the hate the Leafs core get about having no pulse in the playoffs at least they get there…

Mathews, Nylander, Marner and Reilly brought the Leafs to the playoffs in Mathews rookie season - all younger than Tkachuk is now.

Then what happened?

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

It was after a Norris goal. Brady was “celebrating” on the bench doing the money sign to Norris as he came for fist bumps - I was suspicious of Brady’s motives after seeing that..and then there’s this:

[https://x.com/everydaysens/status/1510787280411238403?s=46&t=frhAJm22LcWUtwun9vePLw

Young people do young dumb things.

Just insulate him with a hard nosed vet.

 

[KingAlfie11]

For all the hate the Leafs core get about having no pulse in the playoffs at least they get there…

Mathews, Nylander, Marner and Reilly brought the Leafs to the playoffs in Mathews rookie season - all younger than Tkachuk is now.

Yeah but personally making the playoffs just to get embarrassed in the 1st round yeah after year after year I rather not make it

 

[drede]

That's a long work list for one single offseason by a team that isn't blessed with a lot of assets.

Free agency this year will be expensive as the cap is going up a lot for everyone.

I see them reasonably being able to address 3 to 4 of those. RD and possibly one of the 3rd liners will be tough or a compromise solution. And then there's the goaltending....

I figure they're about 2 offseasons away from being really competitive.

What about losing a 1st in next 3 drafts when do you think they will choose to forfeit it 2026??

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Yeah but personally making the playoffs just to get embarrassed in the 1st round yeah after year after year I rather not make it

na tons of good moments over the course of making it into the playoffs in a season.

good plays, good hockey, good development. not to mention the thrill and atmosphere of playoff hockey itself.

what sucks is meaningless hockey.

 

[Answer]

na tons of good moments over the course of making it into the playoffs in a season.

good plays, good hockey, good development. not to mention the thrill and atmosphere of playoff hockey itself.

what sucks is meaningless hockey.

Some fans try to make themselves feel better by creating this narrative in their minds that somehow their rivals are worst than them even though they are more successful factually

Not sure how it is an embarrassment losing in the first round? All of their first rounds have been good competitive hockey. Not like they were outplayed in any of those series

A lot of great teams have multiple playoff failures before going on to winning the Cup, or at least coming very very close

 

[Beech]

Young people do young dumb things.

Just insulate him with a hard nosed vet.

there is no, Hard Nose Vet tree to pluck from.

the league is now structured differently. Most players 25-30 are on their second contract, signed after ELC or after a 2 year bridge. So 19/20/21 to 22/23/24 is ELC.. 7 by X, 8 by X lands you at 29-31. If you bridge, you end at 32/33.

Players available at 25-30 are weaker players who do not impact your team.. 3rd/4th liners.

Giroux was the exception, not the rule.

there is only one way to have Hard Nosed Veterans.. Home grown. And they must be linear.. Home grown and learn from those that came before them.. So a steady chain of players that have character that you allow to age with you and teach younger ones. Greatest example today: Boston.

The character chain was severed by the team in 2012/2013.. No one took the torch. They have been floundering ever since.

 

[Tuna99]

there is no, Hard Nose Vet tree to pluck from.

the league is now structured differently. Most players 25-30 are on their second contract, signed after ELC or after a 2 year bridge. So 19/20/21 to 22/23/24 is ELC.. 7 by X, 8 by X lands you at 29-31. If you bridge, you end at 32/33.

Players available at 25-30 are weaker players who do not impact your team.. 3rd/4th liners.

Giroux was the exception, not the rule.

there is only one way to have Hard Nosed Veterans.. Home grown. And they must be linear.. Home grown and learn from those that came before them.. So a steady chain of players that have character that you allow to age with you and teach younger ones. Greatest example today: Boston.

The character chain was severed by the team in 2012/2013.. No one took the torch. They have been floundering ever since.

TB traded for Mcdonaugh, Goodrow, Coleman, MRoon.

And check out your Boston roster - they are constantly Adding NHL veterans it seems every deadline.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Some fans try to make themselves feel better by creating this narrative in their minds that somehow their rivals are worst than them even though they are more successful factually

Not sure how it is an embarrassment losing in the first round? All of their first rounds have been good competitive hockey. Not like they were outplayed in any of those series

A lot of great teams have multiple playoff failures before going on to winning the Cup, or at least coming very very close

Yeah the only rival that has been worse is Buffalo, they have the longest playoff drought in the league. I know smack talking rivals is a fun part of NHL fandom but the Sabres are the only rival we are in any position to talk smack to.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yes I think there definitely was a problem.

All we heard of the team culture was just propaganda from the team.

 

[NyQuil]

Team culture can never be fantastic when you're always losing.

It shouldn't, frankly.

It's not fun to lose a lot. These are professionals but they're also competitive hockey players. They want to win, and they don't. A lot.

I'd be concerned if there wasn't any team culture issues right now.

 

[Answer]

Team culture can never be fantastic when you're always losing.

It shouldn't, frankly.

It's not fun to lose a lot. These are professionals but they're also competitive hockey players. They want to win, and they don't. A lot.

I'd be concerned if there wasn't any team culture issues right now.

We always take this for granted in NHL and NBA (especially). I don't think every player necessarily cares about winning, as long as they are getting paid good, and probably is looking forward to a long summer to enjoy. relax and party. Not every player would welcome the pressure that comes with winning culture and playoffs

 

[HF Reader]

Nick Paul and DeMelo.

Duclair is a good player but not what this team is missing.

I agree completely. Dorion's decisions on Paul and DeMelo rank very high in demonstrating how little Dorion knew about building a winning team and/or evaluating player contributions.

 

[Cosmix]

Nick Paul and DeMelo.

Duclair is a good player but not what this team is missing.

Duclair would have been useful and entertaining if we had retained him instead of what Dorion gave us. Paul and DeMelo too; however, the Joseph-Paul trade has worked out well enough. Losing DeMelo was another Dorion disaster.

 

[BondraTime]

I agree completely. Dorion's decisions on Paul and DeMelo rank very high in demonstrating how little Dorion knew about building a winning team and/or evaluating player contributions.

I mean, Joseph is the better player, younger, and they also got a pick for Paul

 

[Cosmix]

What about losing a 1st in next 3 drafts when do you think they will choose to forfeit it 2026??

Yes 2026, as the team will need its high top 5 pick in the coming 2024 draft and likely a top 15 pick in the 2025 draft with the expectation that the team will be in the playoffs in 2025-26, leading to a 16th-32nd draft pick in 2026.