Discussion: Is there a team culture problem with this group?

[GCK]

This team from the start, have a culture of bad management. Every time the wrong decision. And the new management doesn’t seem to be better

???

 

[Relapsing]

The organization is in the process of cleaning things up. If there’s an issue then staios will get to it. Until then this is unhealthy speculation.

Yep.

A lot of impatient posters talking about how Staios hasn't don't anything yet... Give the new owner/management an offseason to figure this mess out.

I don't understand how any fan of this team, after all these brutal years, are suddenly now at the end of their rope. It's wild.

The current problems with this team, is the problem of the current owners and the current management…… have they had enough time to identify what mean to be done, perhaps, but so far there has only been some tweaking to the ice times of certain players, and some shifting around of who plays with who…..a lot more needs to be done, and if it does not begin within the next 5 or 6 days, it better happen early in the offseason.
Moving out expiring contracts for picks or prospects is not going to the heart of the problems, it’s just common sense.

I guess the notion that they've had enough time to evaluate is a valid point. But it takes two to tango and no other GM is gonna help them make the moves they likely want to make in-season.

This team needs an off season reset. We would be better served to judge the new regimes effectiveness as we start next season.

 

[UglyPuckling]

The heavy lifting will be done in the offseason IMO.

A RD who can play 20 minutes in the top 4.
A LD who can PK for the bottom pair.
A gritty 3rd line winger.
A 4th line winger who can forecheck and PK
Depending on Norris a 3rd line vet centre who can PK.

Fixing the goaltending will be by far the toughest job.

I like your optimism when to comes to addressing the RD issue. I hope it turns out to be easy, but I've seen a lot of teams struggle to add a good RD for multiple years. On a positive note, there are a decent amount of RD available as free agents this summer.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Is the Norris ready for Jake Sanderson?

Please keep posting this nonsense out. Not because it will make a difference, because it’s funny.

 

[kilroy]

I like your optimism when to comes to addressing the RD issue. I hope it turns out to be easy, but I've seen a lot of teams struggle to add a good RD for multiple years. On a positive note, there are a decent amount of RD available as free agents this summer.

There kinda isn't a huge crop of quality RD's available in UFA this summer, mostly because there isn't a huge crop of NHL caliber RDs in the first place. Any that will be available in FA, are going to cost a premium for the same reason.

I think there's only two that the Sens could realistically target: in free agency: Roy or DeMelo.

There's other RDs available as UFAs, but don't fit their need very well, either because they're offensive defencemen or older players who will need replacing about when this team is ready to truly compete in the playoffs. It doesn't make sense to me to go after players over 30 for such a crucial roster spot.

 

[UglyPuckling]

There kinda isn't a huge crop of quality RD's available in UFA this summer, mostly because there isn't a huge crop of NHL caliber RDs in the first place. Any that will be available in FA, are going to cost a premium for the same reason.

I think there's only two that the Sens could realistically target: in free agency: Roy or DeMelo.

There's other RDs available as UFAs, but don't fit their need, like Carrier. He's an offensive minded defencemen, that's on the smaller side, who slots into the bottom two pairings and maybe fills in on the PP. Sounds like someone that's already a Senator, right?

The rest are all much older and don't fit the core's projected timeline very well. They will need replacing in about 2-3 years when this team should FINALLY be truly competitive. Doesn't make sense to me to go after players over 30 for such a crucial roster spot.

Everything is relative and I was thinking there's more this summer than the average year.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[kilroy]

Everything is relative and I was thinking there's more this summer than the average year.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

There's more FAs than usual in every position since everyone in the world knew the cap was going to go up more than usual this offseason. A ton of players lined up contracts to take advantage of that.

A lot of money is going to be handed out this off season and prices are going to be much higher than we've seen in the past.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

What a mess the previous regime left for the current one.

So this lets the current regime off the hook, for the current state of the Franchise….

Yep.

A lot of impatient posters talking about how Staios hasn't don't anything yet... Give the new owner/management an offseason to figure this mess out.

I don't understand how any fan of this team, after all these brutal years, are suddenly now at the end of their rope. It's wild.


I guess the notion that they've had enough time to evaluate is a valid point. But it takes two to tango and no other GM is gonna help them make the moves they likely want to make in-season.

This team needs an off season reset. We would be better served to judge the new regimes effectiveness as we start next season.

Agree, but with the LTIR giving them a little more room to work with, perhaps something can start the bell rolling at or before the deadline.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

So this lets the current regime off the hook, for the current state of the Franchise….

Did I say that?

 

[Adrianopolous]

Did I say that?

Yes you did several times..

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Yes you did several times..

Show me where I specifically said the current regime is absolved of any blame? Being patient does not mean I don't think they get a free pass.

I've actually blamed them for not firing Dorion and DJ as soon as they were brought into the Sens organization

 

[Micklebot]

I feel that Staois who was a player for a long time in the NHL, along with Dave Poulin another long-time player will figure out the heartbeat of this team. Another HUGE factor is having our beloved Alfie on the bench day in and day out. He will see what makes the team click or in this case, not click. I think we will see some unexpected moves of this core as much as we don't want to.

It's kind of funny when you think about it,

Dave Poulin, a Selke winner, and Steve Staois a rugged defensive minded top 4 RHD are exactly the players we need (well, maybe turn Poulin into a winger).

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

So this lets the current regime off the hook, for the current state of the Franchise….

wtf do you want them to do with a bottom 5 roster, no cap space, no prospects and no draft picks, with only 5 months into the job?

 

[Micklebot]

wtf do you want them to do with a bottom 5 roster, no cap space, no prospects and no draft picks, with only 5 months into the job?

The lack of cap space really tied their hands, say they wanted to add a RHD and were willing to trade Chychrun or Greig to make it happen (not that I'm suggesting they should), any move would have to be cap neutral, making finding a partner incredibly hard.

Even calling someone up to try and give the team a spark with fresh blood was a challenge.

 

[Norris4Norris]

It is quite amazing that we got the 2 best players from the 2020 draft in Stutzle and Sanderson and still haven't built a team around them.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The entire team and everything behind them is leftover from the last group. Literally 100%. Staios has not made one trade or signing other than Pinto. The only valid criticism of the new regime is that they haven't done anything yet, if that's even valid given the cap issues and having taken over the team midseason. Those arguments basically reduce to wishing they'd have done something because you think they should have by now, even though precedent tells us that's not when teams are typically making deals to fix their team for the following season. So excited to criticize the new guys they couldn't even wait for the actual reasonable window of time to pass before doing so.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Show me where I specifically said the current regime is absolved of any blame? Being patient does not mean I don't think they get a free pass.

I've actually blamed them for not firing Dorion and DJ as soon as they were brought into the Sens organization

I think they just wanted Dorion and DJ to absorb the blame for what they saw as a shit show.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think they just wanted Dorion and DJ to absorb the blame for what they saw as a shit show.

Well, he designed this team. This is basically Dorion's baby. He locked in all the corners of the team to big money deals. He refused to change coaching. He believed in the group, and for the group to succeed under DJ. It didn't. Blame the players, sure, but If the players didn't work out, then his entire plan was a failure and he must have drafted the wrong ones. He should wear it if this is all a bust.

There will be plenty to judge Staios and Co. on after they start making moves.

 

[Sting]

I don't know if it's a culture issue as much as the player talent level does not match up with a) expectations and b) salary being paid.

You can't win in this league if you're overpaying several players and also banking on those guys to lead a team. I love guys like Brady, Drake, Stu, etc but compare them to the star players of actual contenders. It's not close. Part of it is maturing but part of it is just sheer talent. The team doesn't have it. It's more noticeable on the back end than the forwards but I still think our top 6 is lacking compared to a lot of contending teams.

 

[Xspyrit]

Is the Norris ready for Jake Sanderson?

This is way too funny

It is quite amazing that we got the 2 best players from the 2020 draft in Stutzle and Sanderson and still haven't built a team around them.

They were drafted just 3.5 years ago... Sanderson is still 21 y/o, Stutzle just turned 22 y/o

The problem is more :

How come the rebuild that started in 2017-18, that had several PRIME pieces for trade, that should have drafted several Top-10 picks since and the rebuild is still only these 2 guys, Tkachuk and Chabot? (who was already in the organization before the rebuild)

Do you want the answer? Pierre Dorion, that was the problem.

We had Tkachuk and Chabot early in the rebuild... we then had Norris and Batherson, then Zub, then added Sanderson and Stutzle... then Giroux and Tarasenko... How is it even possible to not build a better team around that?

Add in Chychrun, pinto, Greig, Joseph... it doesn't make any sense

GMs must be salivating at the idea of getting their hands on some of these players at a discount. Thank God Dorion is not there anymore. Imagine if we had at the helm of a retooling lol

Show me where I specifically said the current regime is absolved of any blame? Being patient does not mean I don't think they get a free pass.

I've actually blamed them for not firing Dorion and DJ as soon as they were brought into the Sens organization

Ideally I would have wanted that too but I think the problem is the capital of sympathy (even if based on nothing of substance) Dorion and DJ had with the casual fans and also the players... Firing them right away would have positioned them as villains. The sale would have needed to happened at the beginning of 2023, finish the previous season and make the changes necessary in the off-season. A season wasted because the sale took too long

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I don't know if it's a culture issue as much as the player talent level does not match up with a) expectations and b) salary being paid.

You can't win in this league if you're overpaying several players and also banking on those guys to lead a team. I love guys like Brady, Drake, Stu, etc but compare them to the star players of actual contenders. It's not close. Part of it is maturing but part of it is just sheer talent. The team doesn't have it. It's more noticeable on the back end than the forwards but I still think our top 6 is lacking compared to a lot of contending teams.

At the same time you can win by committee.

But these guys all think they are better than they are. They think they can take shortcuts to win because of their talent.

Massive egos while having done nothing to justify the ego.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I think they just wanted Dorion and DJ to absorb the blame for what they saw as a shit show.

Anyone that has followed the team for the past little while would know that they along with Melnyk would absorb most if not all of the blame hence why I thought during the summer was the best time to come in and replace them both.

 

[Sting]

At the same time you can win by committee.

But these guys all think they are better than they are. They think they can take shortcuts to win because of their talent.

Massive egos while having done nothing to justify the ego.

You can but virtually every recent Cup winner or finalist had 1-2 superstars outside of a couple. That, or they had insane amount of very good players. In recent memory, Vegas and St. Louis had a crazy amount of players in the "very good" category, and a couple of stars. This team has a long way to go to match those rosters. A loooong way.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

You can but virtually every recent Cup winner or finalist had 1-2 superstars outside of a couple. That, or they had insane amount of very good players. In recent memory, Vegas and St. Louis had a crazy amount of players in the "very good" category, and a couple of stars. This team has a long way to go to match those rosters. A loooong way.

I'm just talking about making the playoffs though .

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

2019.

SN: You’re known as a goal-setter, a man who makes lists with personal targets. Have you set goals for the 2019-20 Senators?​

Smith: You know what, I have, quietly, in my own mind. But I don’t want to say them out loud. I also want to see what we look on the ice, through the exhibition season, and then be realistic with what the approach is.

-----------------------
One of the goals I can say out loud is – to change the mentality, and change the culture.

The Senators newly minted head coach D.J. Smith welcomed the addition of Zaitsev with a few choice words.

"“I’m looking for people to change the culture here and up the work ethic. I just explained to him how much I needed him, and we needed him here in Ottawa to help us with that. He was sold right away.”"

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Accountability

DJ talks accountability
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Dorion never really supported DJ with the type of veterans this team needed to help them grow properly and establish the right mindset to be successful.

The "culture" thing

Creating a positive team culture has always been the goal of coaches in the locker room. The belief is that players who are responsible, accountable and buy into the team can help lead to more success on the ice.

If we accept this definition.. It does seem there was some struggle with buying in .. it is a change in what they were apparently buying in on before.
With the way the Sens played against some good teams ... it was different than we've seen. We have seen them win before and go on stretches but the defensive mindset was never really there like we saw it recently; We were on our way it seemed to actually creating an identity... In the more recent games the wheels have come off a bit again.. there has been a lack of readiness to put in the effort it takes .. regardless of the systems they are being asked to play. Its not a push back from playing defense first its a push back from playing period. The adage ; "Our best players have to be our best players" certainly seems to be missing as a whole . One or two here and there .. that doesn't cut it. IMO Sens fans are have been asked to be patient and hope was built up prematurely and now we are going to have to be patient still. The management group is going to have to have a vision of the type of team they want; identify who fits that's here now, prioritize the needs and make moves gradually towards filling them. Its not going to be easy.