Discussion: Is there a team culture problem with this group?

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Did I say that?

Yes ad nauseam

 

[PlayOn]

There will always be problems when you have poor leadership for a group of 20+ people.

Is there a team culture problem to the point we should be concerned now that things are presumably going to be properly run? Probably not.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Yes ad nauseam

Show me where I said the current regime should be left off the hook for the current state of the franchise.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

There will always be problems when you have poor leadership for a group of 20+ people.

Is there a team culture problem to the point we should be concerned now that things are presumably going to be properly run? Probably not.

That's the thing though..it's not about the management.

It's about the players. Are they redeemable?

This team is basically what you get when you tell a bunch of teenagers that they are the best, it's their team, and shove a bunch of money in their face.

When they had done nothing to deserve all that but now believe otherwise.

 

[PlayOn]

That's the thing though..it's not about the management.

It's about the players. Are they redeemable?

This team is basically what you get when you tell a bunch of teenagers that they are the best, it's their team, and shove a bunch of money in their face.

When they had done nothing to deserve all that but now believe otherwise.

I see no indication that they’re not redeemable.

Bobby Ryan said when the Brady rumours came up that he’s never heard anything other than praise for Brady and he’s still connected. I’ve always heard people talk about what a great teammate Chabot is. A guy that played in Belleville with Norris and is now in the media said the other day that the vets on that team would all rave about Norris and how he was such a pro already. Sanderson’s college coach always talked about his pro mindset.

If all of a sudden they’re all bad pros then perhaps their leaders failed them. You can’t evaluate them isolated from the people above them because that will always have an impact.

 

[Byron Bitz]

People were all excited and praising Dorion about getting a core locked down long term, they didn’t stop to think if he had actually locked down the right core. We are seeing a rebuild come to completion and have found out that it was a low quality rebuild where the wrong core was locked down. Now that GM had been fire and Staios has to figure out a way to quickly retool this failed rebuild. He’s in a tough spot here but he’s got some good assets to work with, hopefully he can pull it off.

 

[Byron Bitz]

You’re asking for the G.M. To be in panic mode when the last thing this team needs is exactly that. They are trying to get panic out of this team.

Calculated, intentional moves is what is needed. So it doesn’t have to begin in 5 days, it can be at training camp next year, as long as they are the right moves and not stupid Debrincat, Duchene, Bobby Ryan, Matt Murray, Korpisalo panic moves

I wouldnt call them panic moves but they need to make moves that will get them in the damn playoffs next season. The playoff drought has gone on way too long. Giroux came here to win and gave this team his last good years.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I see no indication that they’re not redeemable.

Bobby Ryan said when the Brady rumours came up that he’s never heard anything other than praise for Brady and he’s still connected. I’ve always heard people talk about what a great teammate Chabot is. A guy that played in Belleville with Norris and is now in the media said the other day that the vets on that team would all rave about Norris and how he was such a pro already. Sanderson’s college coach always talked about his pro mindset.

If all of a sudden they’re all bad pros then perhaps their leaders failed them. You can’t evaluate them isolated from the people above them because that will always have an impact.

Feels like that is one of the problems, they are all more concerned about being nice, having fun and the vibes, than winning. winning seems secondary to all that.

nice little country club attitude.

i never remember seeing a senators team more okay with losing. never when Karlsson was here, never when Alfredsson was here even when those teams had less talent than the current. like those teams it would sometimes feel toxic if the team was in a bad stretch, and they would break out.

this team doesn't feel like that it seems they get more pissed off at the outside than themselves and their friends.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

I wouldnt call them panic moves but they need to make moves that will get them in the damn playoffs next season. The playoff drought has gone on way too long. Giroux came here to win and gave this team his last good years.

Dorion did exactly this. You can't have it both ways. This board calls him the worst GM in history but he tried. He made moves. Now we have a GM that I'm guessing will be the opposite: very patient and very careful. But that probably means we enter next season with roughly the same roster.

 

[Loach]

Dorion did exactly this. You can't have it both ways. This board calls him the worst GM in history but he tried. He made moves. Now we have a GM that I'm guessing will be the opposite: very patient and very careful. But that probably means we enter next season with roughly the same roster.

What?

 

[PlayOn]

Feels like that is one of the problems, they are all more concerned about being nice, having fun and the vibes, than winning. winning seems secondary to all that.

nice little country club attitude.

i never remember seeing a senators team more okay with losing. never when Karlsson was here, never when Alfredsson was here even when those teams had less talent than the current. like those teams it would sometimes feel toxic if the team was in a bad stretch, and they would break out.

this team doesn't feel like that it seems they get more pissed off at the outside than themselves and their friends.

They’re not okay with losing, they actually get dejected by it and they collectively as a group don’t have enough confidence to handle the highs and lows of a game, let alone a full season.

It’s why they look great when they’re feeling good and then something goes awry and they can’t recover.

 

[Norris4Norris]

This is way too funny



They were drafted just 3.5 years ago... Sanderson is still 21 y/o, Stutzle just turned 22 y/o

The problem is more :

How come the rebuild that started in 2017-18, that had several PRIME pieces for trade, that should have drafted several Top-10 picks since and the rebuild is still only these 2 guys, Tkachuk and Chabot? (who was already in the organization before the rebuild)

Do you want the answer? Pierre Dorion, that was the problem.

We had Tkachuk and Chabot early in the rebuild... we then had Norris and Batherson, then Zub, then added Sanderson and Stutzle... then Giroux and Tarasenko... How is it even possible to not build a better team around that?

Add in Chychrun, pinto, Greig, Joseph... it doesn't make any sense

GMs must be salivating at the idea of getting their hands on some of these players at a discount. Thank God Dorion is not there anymore. Imagine if we had at the helm of a retooling lol



Ideally I would have wanted that too but I think the problem is the capital of sympathy (even if based on nothing of substance) Dorion and DJ had with the casual fans and also the players... Firing them right away would have positioned them as villains. The sale would have needed to happened at the beginning of 2023, finish the previous season and make the changes necessary in the off-season. A season wasted because the sale took too long

The Sens should have kept a lot of those veterans like Stone and Karlsson.

Every good team has solid veterans and we don't really have any.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dorion did exactly this. You can't have it both ways. This board calls him the worst GM in history but he tried. He made moves. Now we have a GM that I'm guessing will be the opposite: very patient and very careful. But that probably means we enter next season with roughly the same roster.

Sometimes the right moves arent the splashiest or the home run type.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Dorion did exactly this. You can't have it both ways. This board calls him the worst GM in history but he tried. He made moves. Now we have a GM that I'm guessing will be the opposite: very patient and very careful. But that probably means we enter next season with roughly the same roster.

Dorion tried to hit home runs but they were all foul balls.

 

[Xspyrit]

The Sens should have kept a lot of those veterans like Stone and Karlsson.

Every good team has solid veterans and we don't really have any.

Couldn't though due to Melnyk context and also the fact that they wanted to win now (particularly Stone)

All these guys made the right choice for their own career

Dorion tried to hit home runs but they were all foul balls.

Some were foul balls but some were also "negative balls"? lol

Even a strike out wouldn't work. It's like you hit a ball and it's the other team that gets a point, like the Red Wings last summer.

Pierre Dorion has been a blessing to several NHL teams. Golden Knights, Rangers, Wings, Avalanche fans must absolutely LOVE him

 

[Relapsing]

Show me where I said the current regime should be left off the hook for the current state of the franchise.

You could also have said: "you are the last person here who should be using the words ad nauseum to criticize anyone".

I also would have accepted "you do know what that phrase means, right?"

 

[Norris4Norris]

If we rely on the draft and keep our core young guys then I believe that we will be a winning team in 3-4 years. Plus Korpisalo's contract will be up around then, if we don't buy him out.

At the very least it will take 2 more years for this team to make the playoffs.

Is that a rebuild or a retool?

 

[bicboi64]

There's been a change in management, coaching, but not in players. We have a losing culture and the players have internalized it.

Everyone except Stu and Sandy needs to be on the table if the deal is right. Greig and Pinto because they're young and won't cost too much, and Zub because his back hasn't broken from carrying our D since he's been on the roster.

Yes, that means consider moving our captain if the right deal is there. Everyone on this team except Giroux was given an A or C prematurely, and they can't handle the pressure of leadership. If the right deal comes by for Stu or Sandy, trade them too. The team first, and players second.

 

[majormajor]

Big list for sure. Most pressing is RD
We will need to overpay in AAV and term but there are 7 legit targets, some will obviously re-sign.

Roy, Pesce, Montour, Walker, Demelo, Carrier, Tanev.
I expect Chychrun gone but no other core pieces. We need more vets who understand how to stay on an even keel.

The Sens traded DeMelo away for a 3rd round pick. We had a good debate about that at the time. The folks who argued that DeMelo would be much harder to replace than people thought were correct.

He might be the most cost effective player for the Sens to get this summer. Kind of a perfect fit for what the team needs on the right side. You can also hope that there is a GM out there foolish enough to trade a top 4 RD for a 3rd rounder.

I don't know if it's a culture issue as much as the player talent level does not match up with a) expectations and b) salary being paid.

You can't win in this league if you're overpaying several players and also banking on those guys to lead a team. I love guys like Brady, Drake, Stu, etc but compare them to the star players of actual contenders. It's not close. Part of it is maturing but part of it is just sheer talent. The team doesn't have it. It's more noticeable on the back end than the forwards but I still think our top 6 is lacking compared to a lot of contending teams.

I watch a lot of teams play and there is zero question that this Sens team is solidly in the top half in terms of talent.

They're one of the top 5v5 offenses in the league (3rd in goals per minute 5v5). They make skill plays that other clubs can't.

At the same time you can win by committee.

But these guys all think they are better than they are. They think they can take shortcuts to win because of their talent.

Massive egos while having done nothing to justify the ego.

I think that's pretty much it. They think winning involves a highlight reel. They're not wiling to tolerate the boredom of consistency.

This team works and quits, works and quits. Brady Tkachuk provides highlight reel leadership and then flubs off.

My main club is the Jackets and I'm thankful that Boone Jenner does the same thing every game. He's not a great player but he's providing the right lesson for the next generation. Making the right play consistently is really hard.

The Jets are a team that has really made that switch in the last year. Before that they had a couple years where they seemed indifferent to defense, particularly Scheifele. This year they've really bought in and do the same thing every game now. Hopefully Dillon DeMelo can come back to Ottawa and spread some of what they've learned.

 

[SensFactor]

When you go full rebuild like the Sens did after 2017 you have to wait awhile for things to recover. We have one of the youngest clubs in the NHL even with guys like Giroux.

The mistake Sens management made was not surrounding the young players with quality vets. Giroux is the only one that comes to mind that can teach the youth to play well consistently. This teams need to retool the defense with Zub and Sanderson as the two anchors.

 

[Cosmix]

It is quite amazing that we got the 2 best players from the 2020 draft in Stutzle and Sanderson and still haven't built a team around them.

Add a top 4 pick in the 2018 draft to that list of 2 players.

The owner was cheap, the GM a dull bulb, and coach derelict.

 

[majormajor]

They’re not okay with losing, they actually get dejected by it and they collectively as a group don’t have enough confidence to handle the highs and lows of a game, let alone a full season.

It’s why they look great when they’re feeling good and then something goes awry and they can’t recover.

They look seriously dejected right now.

They lose confidence and they don't have the consistent group work ethic to fall back on.

If we rely on the draft and keep our core young guys then I believe that we will be a winning team in 3-4 years. Plus Korpisalo's contract will be up around then, if we don't buy him out.

At the very least it will take 2 more years for this team to make the playoffs.

Is that a rebuild or a retool?

The things this club needs the most - consistent detailed work ethic - are not going to be remedied by adding more young players.

Have a look at what the Jets have done in the last year - it's almost entirely about team defense and consistency. You can get a huge jump in the standings just from that. And the East is softening a lot. It's time to win next year.

Getting a DeMelo type for the right side and adding a hard nosed coach like Berube and I think this club might get in the playoffs next year. Korpisalo and Forsberg are bad but they're not .885 bad, that's more of a team thing.

 

[GCK]

Dorion did exactly this. You can't have it both ways. This board calls him the worst GM in history but he tried. He made moves. Now we have a GM that I'm guessing will be the opposite: very patient and very careful. But that probably means we enter next season with roughly the same roster.

Yes Dorion tried but he epically failed.

Gudbranson for less than a year

Stepan, where he overpaid and acquired a player that didn’t want to be here

Hamonic was a good add but then he gave him a NMC

Nick Holden was also a good pickup but since Dorion lied it costs us a 1st round pick.

Dorion was a bad GM who was also hamstrung by a terrible owner. Both are equally at fault, neither were competent.

 

[Norris4Norris]

They look seriously dejected right now.

They lose confidence and they don't have the consistent group work ethic to fall back on.



The things this club needs the most - consistent detailed work ethic - are not going to be remedied by adding more young players.

Have a look at what the Jets have done in the last year - it's almost entirely about team defense and consistency. You can get a huge jump in the standings just from that. And the East is softening a lot. It's time to win next year.

Getting a DeMelo type for the right side and adding a hard nosed coach like Berube and I think this club might get in the playoffs next year. Korpisalo and Forsberg are bad but they're not .885 bad, that's more of a team thing.

I agree with most of this.

But... The Jets have Helleybuck and he is top 5 goalie. We can't just change our defence the same way we will need an overhaul, but that's just my opinion.

 

[GCK]

I don’t think those who haven’t played hockey, lacrosse, soccer, etc at a semi high level realize how energy sucking and demoralizing soft early goals can be to a group if it’s a regular occurrence. 4 or 5 a year is one thing but giving up those kinds of goals regularly really has a huge effect.