TSN: Dion almost signed? Mod warning post #277

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

that's exactly what he would be on a cup contender. 3rd/4th D man.

I guess you haven't watched many cup contending teams.

 

[DD03]

Karlsson has been outplaying him? Maybe in terms of offense, but defense? No way in hell, Karlsson has been brutal in that regard this season.

In terms of Norris voting, Karlsson would be ahead of him. But I don't think there's any one else besides the people I listed.

His 6.5 is hampering the cap. He's overpaid by about 2.5 mill. So soon it will be a 3 mill overpayment for what he brings. That's called hampering your ability to field a winner. He will definitely make $7 mill. Yakupov will one day be a massive earner. Kovalev used to make a **** ton of money. Gonchar made boat loads. Komisarek earned his contract too. Semin earned his money. Ovechkin earned his money... Imagine building a team with all these guys, who all deserved the money they signed for? It's just not the right kind of player to build around. And neither is Phaneuf.

My previous statement still stands.

Seidenberg + Martin @ $8 mill > Phaneuf @ $7 mill. All day long.

How is Dion only worth 4 million? What gives you this idea that Dion isn't worth the money? Especially 4 million which is just a little more then Gunnarsson.

Dion >>>>> Gunnarsson and it's not even close.

Again, no one cares about Seidenberg + Martin, we can't get either, nor could we.

 

[wulfio*]

You're talking hypothetically. We can't get both of those guys, ever.. You're the only person in the hockey world right now that thinks Dion isn't a #1 d man. He's been playing like a top 10 defenseman this season. With only Keith, Suter, Karlsson, clearly out playing him. Pretty good company, IMO.

Paul Martin hasn't won **** either.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. I haven't said he isn't a #1 d man. I said he's not a #1 d man on a cup contender.

I also didn't say Seidenberg or Martin were available, I am guessing you are unfamiliar with analogies? I am saying value players are out there, whether its by trade or FA. They can be found, they can be had, if you don't spend your money like a goof. And that is exactly what paying Dion more money than he's making now is... Being a goof.

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

In terms of Norris voting, Karlsson would be ahead of him. But I don't think there's any one else besides the people I listed.

Well if you wanted to go by the "D-man who scores the most points" award voting, sure. But besides that, no way.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Again, haven't you heard the cap going up in the next few years? Players' agents are aware of this and the management as well. You cannot compare previous contracts with contracts that are being signed today just by looking at raw numbers.

Okay, just this August Bouwmeester was re-signed for $5.4 x 5 years. That is certainly a comparable contract.

Also, if you start using 'but the cap is going up!' as justification for every deal, pretty soon you'll have spent all of that extra money before the offseason even begins. The cap is going up is used to justify Clarkson's contract, and probably every other extension coming down the pipes soon enough.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ya good point wulfio. Dion should making not a penny more than 4 million. Kessel maybe 4.5, Kadri 1.5 and van Riemsdyk 2.5.

How stupid of mngmt not to sign these guys for these numbers. Just think of all the flexibility we would have. Whatever were they thinking.

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

Your reading comprehension is lacking. I haven't said he isn't a #1 d man. I said he's not a #1 d man on a cup contender.

I also didn't say Seidenberg or Martin were available, I am guessing you are unfamiliar with analogies? I am saying value players are out there, whether its by trade or FA. They can be found, they can be had, if you don't spend your money like a goof. And that is exactly what paying Dion more money than he's making now is... Being a goof.

Instead of spewing generic ********, why don't you go go ahead and name the top 8 cup contending teams, and name 2 dmen better than Dion on every team.

Go ahead and try. You will fail hard as I can think of two teams where he would be the #1 off the bat.

 

[DD03]

Your reading comprehension is lacking. I haven't said he isn't a #1 d man. I said he's not a #1 d man on a cup contender.

I also didn't say Seidenberg or Martin were available, I am guessing you are unfamiliar with analogies? I am saying value players are out there, whether its by trade or FA. They can be found, they can be had, if you don't spend your money like a goof. And that is exactly what paying Dion more money than he's making now is... Being a goof.

Who are your Cup contenders?

 

[Grant]

This is a list of defensemen with a cap hit over 6m and what they would look like with the new contract length limit. Also included is what year they were signed:

- Weber 92m over first 8 years (11.5)(2012)
- Suter 71m over first 7 years (10.15)(2012)
- Letang 58m over first 8 years (7.25)(2014)(10.2%)
- Keith 57.75m over first 8 years (7.22m)(2010)(12.2)
- Campbell 57m over first 8 years (7.15m)(2008)(12.6)
- Doughty 56m over first 8 years (7m)(2011)(10.9%)
- Chara 45.5 over first 7 years (6.9m)(2011)(10.7%)
- Boyle 40m over first 6 years (6.67m)(2008)(11.8%)
- Karlsson 45.5m over first 7 years (6.5m)(2012)
- Pietrangelo 45.4 over first 7 years (6.5m)(2013)(10.1%)
- Green 18.25m over first 3 year (6.1m)(2012)

There was also that rumoured Subban 6 years at 8.33 per contract.

Edit: A number of these guys were also signed as RFAs.

 

[The Beyonder]

At least this won't be a distraction any more. Both Dion and Kessel taken care of before Christmans. The rest of the FAs should be easier.

 

[wulfio*]

chicago

/end convo

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

Dion can EASILY get 7.5x7 on the free market this year.

 

[Ruski]

You want to go from Phaneuf to Byfuglien?

If you hate Phaneuf because of his supposed blunders, you'll want to commit suicide watching Byfuglien play defense.

I don't dislike Phaneuf, i appreciate his contribution and ability to eat big minutes but i don't think he is our solution to that #1 D-man (ala Chara, Webber, etc.)

At big Phaneuf contract likely means we won't have the opportunity or cap space to sign another big-time Dman for a while. To me, Byfuglien has a much higher offensive upside and the defensive responsibilities can be offloaded to more stay-at-home defencemen.

Anyway, $7x7 isn't horrible but not what i would have liked. At the same time, i am not sure what we could have possible got in return for an unsigned Phaneuf so its hard to pass judgement for a contract without knowing what Leafs other options may have been.

 

[DD03]

chicago

/end convo

There's more then just one Cup contender.

Did you know a team from the East makes it?

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

chicago

/end convo

Nice, 1 cup contender. This explains all we need to know.

 

[DD03]

I don't dislike Phaneuf, i appreciate his contribution and ability to eat big minutes but i don't think he is our solution to that #1 D-man (ala Chara, Webber, etc.)

At big Phaneuf contract likely means we won't have the opportunity or cap space to sign another big-time Dman for a while. To me, Byfuglien has a much higher offensive upside and the defensive responsibilities can be offloaded to more stay-at-home defencemen.

Anyway, $7x7 isn't horrible but not what i would have liked. At the same time, i am not sure what we could have possible got in return for an unsigned Phaneuf so its hard to pass judgement for a contract without knowing what Leafs other options may have been.

You really need to watch Byfuglien play. He has a terrible attitude, and he's an even worse skater then Dion

 

[FreeBird]

49M over 7 yrs is a good deal. get it done nonis. happy to have him as captain

He'll probably hold the record for Captain of a team who missed the most playoff appearances while serving as Capt.

Just sayin! any thing is possible I've been told through out my life as a Leaf fan.

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

There's more then just one Cup contender.

Did you know a team from the East makes it?

I wonder if he knows the defending champs aren't the only contenders.

 

[DD03]

He'll probably hold the record for Captain of a team who missed the most playoff appearances while serving as Capt.

Just sayin! any thing is possible I've been told through out my life as a Leaf fan.

Dion's only missed the playoffs something like twice in his whole career.

 

[DD03]

I wonder if he knows the defending champs aren't the only contenders.

Anything to hate on Dion.

 

[wulfio*]

I would also like to add, that teams like pittsburgh and boston are cup contenders because they dont pay players like Dion Phaneuf $7+ mill.

Crappy teams give guys that won't carry them their pay days. Good teams use their money wisely.

 

[DD03]

I would also like to add, that teams like pittsburgh and boston are cup contenders because they dont pay players like Dion Phaneuf $7+ mill.

No but instead Pittsburgh pays Letang to play 60 games a year, and play poor defensively. And Boston pays Chara. Dion has been playing better then Chara this year. Chara is in a pretty decent regression right now. Way to go though bud!

And to try to say Dion hasn't carried us

After Dion, our defense is awful.

 

[TML23]

Okay, just this August Bouwmeester was re-signed for $5.4 x 5 years. That is certainly a comparable contract.

Also, if you start using 'but the cap is going up!' as justification for every deal, pretty soon you'll have spent all of that extra money before the offseason even begins. The cap is going up is used to justify Clarkson's contract, and probably every other extension coming down the pipes soon enough.

Yes. Bouwmeester deal was great, no doubt about it. However, Bouwmeester knows that he is not a #1 D in St.Louis, whereas Phaneuf does.

Plus, Rogers deal came in November, which means the agents did not know about it back in August.

 

[wulfio*]

No but instead Pittsburgh pays Letang to play 60 games a year, and play poor defensively. And Boston pays Chara. Dion has been playing better then Chara this year. Chara is in a pretty decent regression right now. Way to go though bud!

And to try to say Dion hasn't carried us

After Dion, our defense is awful.

I dunno, when was the last time we won a cup? Pretty hard to hate on those 2 teams...

 

[DD03]

Yes. Bouwmeester deal was great, no doubt about it. However, Bouwmeester knows that he is not a #1 D in St.Louis, whereas Phaneuf does.

Plus, Rogers deal came in November, which means the agents did not know about it back in August.

Bouwmeester took a deal from St. Louis. He wants a Cup.