TSN: Dion almost signed? Mod warning post #277

[Joey Hoser]

I don't even understand how this logic works.

You do realize that a team is more than just two players right?

Of course, but I don't think that replacing Ashton, Fraser and McLaren is going to put this team over the top either. Keeping your core and giving them raises makes it even harder to improve the rest of the roster, if that's the problem.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

The problem is going to be how is the team going to deal with it 2/3 years .

Quite well, I presume.

 

[EscapeGoat]

Haha, all it took was one bad game. Not surprised.

Sums up 90% of the fan base.

Lock Dion Phaneuf up please.

 

[wulfio*]

so people say our defence sucks, and we need to improve it

but we should get rid of our best D man?

okay than


can't wait till dion is signed, big part of this back end.

the argument is that we're going nowhere with Dion as our best d man. Not that we should move our best D man.

 

[pooleboy]

the argument is that we're going nowhere with Dion as our best d man. Not that we should move our best D man.

hmmm.... me thinks Dion wont be the best Dman on the team in 2-3 years. That Rielly kid is looking really good.

 

[hotpaws]

So you think he's going to regress in 2/3 years? How often does a defenseman regress at the age of 30?

I don't think he's a num 1 now or worth 7 mil . He has avg speed and lacks mobility , if he loses a step in the next 2/3 years he will regress from the good but flawed player he is now and we'll be left with a num 4/5 D at 7 plus mil a season .

DP's played alot of hockey and he'll be 29 when the deal starts and many physical players due start to regress around 30 .

 

[The_Chosen_One]

hmmm.... me thinks Dion wont be the best Dman on the team in 2-3 years. That Rielly kid is looking really good.

Rielly doesn't look that good. There is nothing indicating he's nothing more than an offensive defenceman. We're dealing with a different breed here, more of a PK Subban-esque defenceman vs an all-round one. It'd be better to have both.

Much like Ottawa letting Chara walk, we're going to end up regretting it. Phaneuf is extremely versatile. He can play a dominant role on tight-checking and rush teams.

 

[theIceWookie]

I don't think he's a num 1 now or worth 7 mil . He has avg speed and lacks mobility , if he loses a step in the next 2/3 years he will regress from the good but flawed player he is now and we'll be left with a num 4/5 D at 7 plus mil a season .

DP's played alot of hockey and he'll be 29 when the deal starts and many physical players due start to regress around 30 .

No they don't. That's a complete myth. Phaneuf hasn't had any significant history of injuries that would suggest that this is the case.

 

[theIceWookie]

Of course, but I don't think that replacing Ashton, Fraser and McLaren is going to put this team over the top either. Keeping your core and giving them raises makes it even harder to improve the rest of the roster, if that's the problem.

I would agree, presuming that it is in fact the problem.

Which it isn't. I find it very difficult to suggest that what Phaneuf and Kessel have done over the past years is anything but what we asked. They aren't the issue. It's the complete lack of any support for them that was the issue.

And lo and behold, when we actually gave one of them support, look at what happened. Kessel went from a dangerous 30 goal scorer playing as the team's only real consistent threat, to becoming a PPG player place top 10 twice in the last two seasons when he actually got some decent talent to work with him and depth to support him. There is a reason that his assists have rocketed up.

I wonder what happens when we actually give Phaneuf a little help on the backend? What do people expect is going to happen if we get a player like Weber? He's not going to magically make things better (in fact he had the same thing happen on his team, depth left, and look what his stat line looked like last year? It was identical to Phaneuf's). I wonder what actually adding a competent defender to the mix would do? Gunnarson is great but he's not enough. Franson is a weak defender, great at offense. Rielly and Gardiner are young and learning. Ranger/Fraser are not the answer.

The answer to the question of how to fix our defense isn't anything to do with Phaneuf leaving this team. It has everything to do with what's behind him.

 

[hotpaws]

No they don't. That's a complete myth. Phaneuf hasn't had any significant history of injuries that would suggest that this is the case.

It's not a myth it's realty . Physical players wear out quicker on avg than the non physical skill guys and DP doesn't have a step or two to give up unlike a Gards/Rielly .

It's also not simply about injuries , the wear and tear of 10 plus seasons start to take it's toll and players start to wear down .

 

[DD03]

It's not a myth it's realty . Physical players wear out quicker on avg than the non physical skill guys and DP doesn't have a step or two to give up unlike a Gards/Rielly .

It's also not simply about injuries , the wear and tear of 10 plus seasons start to take it's toll and players start to wear down .

How long did Rob Blake, Scott Stevens, Chris Pronger, etc play for? None of these players were any where close to being done at the age of 30.

Your hate for Dion is pretty clear with absolutely no evidence to back up your claim.

 

[HarrisonFord]

How long did Rob Blake, Scott Stevens, Chris Pronger, etc play for? None of these players were any where close to being done at the age of 30.

Your hate for Dion is pretty clear with absolutely no evidence to back up your claim.

This right here. Dion is a workhorse. He's in great shape, basically zero injury history, and only 28. 7 years brings him to the age of 35. MAYBE at 35 he starts to decline a little bit. But he's still going to be in our top 4 at the very worst.

Plus, consider the cap going up. They think the cap could be going to go up as high as $100M by the time his contract is in it's last year. 7M then is the same as $4.5M now. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

 

[DD03]

This right here. Dion is a workhorse. He's in great shape, basically zero injury history, and only 28. 7 years brings him to the age of 35. MAYBE at 35 he starts to decline a little bit. But he's still going to be in our top 4 at the very worst.

Plus, consider the cap going up. They think the cap could be going to go up as high as $100M by the time his contract is in it's last year. 7M then is the same as $4.5M now. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

I think he needs to work with Underhill more, but I think there's only 2 or 3 players on the Leafs who wouldn't benefit from working with her more..

 

[HarrisonFord]

I think he needs to work with Underhill more, but I think there's only 2 or 3 players on the Leafs who wouldn't benefit from working with her more..

I'd agree with this. I really noticed Dion's slow skating in the last game when the Panthers had two rushes short-handed and Dion couldn't catch them. I'd love to see Dion put in a summer focusing mostly on his skating speed, and less on his strength.


edit: though when he's rushing the puck, he moves quicker; so maybe it's a TOI issue. If only we could bring in another top 3 guy to take some of the weight off his shoulders.

 

[DD03]

I'd agree with this. I really noticed Dion's slow skating in the last game when the Panthers had two rushes short-handed and Dion couldn't catch them. I'd love to see Dion put in a summer focusing mostly on his skating speed, and less on his strength.


edit: though when he's rushing the puck, he moves quicker; so maybe it's a TOI issue. If only we could bring in another top 3 guy to take some of the weight off his shoulders.

I think it's a work out issue. He needs to lay off the bike and do some actual hockey related work outs.

I know everyone says this, but I'd love to see what a summer with Roberts' would do for him. He's a pretty good athlete as it is, and he's got a pretty good strong core, so it'd be interesting to see what Roberts' could do for him.

 

[yubbers]

So the new excuse for you Neuf fans is he has a conditioning issue?

Got ya. Not only does he suck, he's lazy :p

 

[DD03]

So the new excuse for you Neuf fans is he has a conditioning issue?

Got ya. Not only does he suck, he's lazy :p

I never said he has a conditioning issue. His conditioning is fine.

I'm just saying he could probably change his work outs around. Could benefit from some of newer ideas that Roberts' uses instead of the old school style work out routine he uses.

 

[yubbers]

I'm just being a dick

You guys have made some good sense into why it makes sense to sign him. I'll never be happy about it. If you just look at the black and white I would agree. But it's not always the black and white. He's just bad for this team. For whatever the reason. I know you guys can feel that in your gut too

 

[DD03]

I'm just being a dick

You guys have made some good sense into why it makes sense to sign him. I'll never be happy about it. If you just look at the black and white I would agree. But it's not always the black and white. He's just bad for this team. For whatever the reason. I know you guys can feel that in your gut too

Not sure what you mean..

I don't know how a guy who cares this much about a team, enjoys playing in a market, plays all those minutes, performs, and it seems like in the dressing room the guys get along.. I think there's a lot more to the teams problems right now then Dion.

 

[HarrisonFord]

I think it's a work out issue. He needs to lay off the bike and do some actual hockey related work outs.

I know everyone says this, but I'd love to see what a summer with Roberts' would do for him. He's a pretty good athlete as it is, and he's got a pretty good strong core, so it'd be interesting to see what Roberts' could do for him.

Imagine if he got himself in with Roberts? I think we all forget just how few defensemen play as difficult minutes (and as many minutes) as Dion does. Posted this up in another thread:

http://www.extraskater.com/players/qual_comp?pos=D&min_gp=50

Toughest minutes played in the NHL. And this year has the 10th best GA/60 when he's on the ice. I don't understand why people can't see this stuff.

 

[DD03]

Imagine if he got himself in with Roberts? I think we all forget just how few defensemen play as difficult minutes (and as many minutes) as Dion does. Posted this up in another thread:

http://www.extraskater.com/players/qual_comp?pos=D&min_gp=50

Toughest minutes played in the NHL. And this year has the 10th best GA/60 when he's on the ice. I don't understand why people can't see this stuff.

That's what I'm saying though. It's not that he needs Roberts. I just think Roberts would put him over the top and get him into some better routines that are better for hockey. It's pretty clear how much of an impact Roberts has had on players that have worked with him.

 

[HarrisonFord]

That's what I'm saying though. It's not that he needs Roberts. I just think Roberts would put him over the top and get him into some better routines that are better for hockey. It's pretty clear how much of an impact Roberts has had on players that have worked with him.

Yeah agreed. I wonder why no teams have approached Roberts and try to get him to work for them exclusively.

 

[yubbers]

Imagine if he got himself in with Roberts? I think we all forget just how few defensemen play as difficult minutes (and as many minutes) as Dion does. Posted this up in another thread:

http://www.extraskater.com/players/qual_comp?pos=D&min_gp=50

Toughest minutes played in the NHL. And this year has the 10th best GA/60 when he's on the ice. I don't understand why people can't see this stuff.

How can you not see that in 4 years he's led this team to NOTHING. We crept into the playoffs last year in a 48 game season and he played garbage in that series.

So looking good on paper is one thing. The past 4 and a half years is another. Great leaders grab their teams by the bootstraps and get them out of tough patches. He has never done that in 4 years. If they re-sign him, the C has to be stripped. Only way I could live with it

 

[Gavy]

Honestly, it blows my mind that peopel tink we are better without him.
Top 15 in the league. This thread really shows how clueless most leaf fans are

 

[yubbers]

Ok. Lets talk stats.

-18 lifetime in the playoffs and never made it out a a first round.....

Discuss