Did Babcock have it right to begin with?

[egd27]

Isn't this the exact argument about how pointless it is to bring up Babcock's cup/medals? He was handed the keys to the best team by a large margin and basically his job was to not screw it up.

Kind of funny to bring that up.

Also, hasn't Keefe won at every level he's coached at so far?

And he didn't. Shame we can't say that about our current GM

 

[notbias]

And he didn't. Shame we can't say that about our current GM

Our GM is on the same path as our last GM, same with the coach

 

[egd27]

Our GM is on the same path as our last GM, same with the coach

I'll anxiously await Kid Kyle's 3 Stanley Cups, HOF Induction, and B2B GM of the Year wins.

Which Olympics do you think Keefe will be selected to coach Team Canada?

 

[mikeyz]

Freddie has been replacement level for a long time, Campbell is as unproved as Freddie.

Keefe as the coach is on a 105pt pace.

Foligno has played like 10 regular season games for us, why is he being factored in here?

Hyman is the only legit argument, conveniently, last year during the regular season Thornton and Hyman were both equally effective on that line, so I think the line was driven by Marner/Matthews, not Hyman, but he is still a legit loss.

The Metro being some powerhouse is overblown. Carolina and the Islanders had similar records to us when Covid hit.

Florida has gotten better, so there is maybe a chance that we are looking at a wildcard spot, but I still think the Leafs are the better team and nothing that has happened in the last couple years would indicate otherwise other than hurt feelings.

We'll see what happens. All I am saying though is don't be surprised if we're touch and go to make the playoffs. I hope to God that I am wrong obviously. But I don't think I am going to be.

 

[notbias]

I'll anxiously await Kid Kyle's 3 Stanley Cups, HOF Induction, and B2B GM of the Year wins.

Which Olympics do you think Keefe will be selected to coach Team Canada?

Let's compare Lou and Dubas when they hit the same time in the league, so like 40 more years?

And I don't know if Keefe will ever coach team Canada, but I firmly believe anyone could coach team Canada and win gold, lets not act like the coaching is what gets them over the hump.

 

[mikeyz]

Atleast? Are you kidding. All these losses were embarrassing (except Washington).

Are you seriously implying that the Habs this year and Columbus last year were just as good as those Boston teams?

 

[notbias]

We'll see what happens. All I am saying though is don't be surprised if we're touch and go to make the playoffs. I hope to God that I am wrong obviously. But I don't think I am going to be.

I think it is more likely we finish first in our division than outside of a playoff spot. I just think people are underestimating this team because they didn't like the results of the playoffs, but this is still a very good team.

 

[mikeyz]

I think it is more likely we finish first in our division than outside of a playoff spot. I just think people are underestimating this team because they didn't like the results of the playoffs, but this is still a very good team.

I am just getting a bad feeling that that 3-1 choke job to the Habs may have permanently f***ed up their confidence and it's going to carry over into next season.

 

[egd27]

Let's compare Lou and Dubas when they hit the same time in the league, so like 40 more years?

And I don't know if Keefe will ever coach team Canada, but I firmly believe anyone could coach team Canada and win gold, lets not act like the coaching is what gets them over the hump.

And yet only one other coach has done so in the past 60 years. But you are right, Keefe will never coach Team Canada at the Olympics.

 

[FraumBallard]

No.

Keefe might not be the answer, but that doesn’t change how awful of a coach Babcock was.

Babcock is a HOF Coach.
Wonder Boy canned him because the children were pouting.
The results since Babs firing speak for themselves.

 

[FraumBallard]

Just wait until this coming season my friend. Make no mistake about it. There's a very fair chance that the Leafs could miss the playoffs.

I for sure think they miss the playoffs.
Much better division.
Much worse team.

 

[FraumBallard]

That's the spirit.

I also cannot wait until Shanahan/Wonder Boy/Keefe are fired.
Should have happened already.

 

[FraumBallard]

We didn't. He spit in Dubas' face, then Dubas sabotaged Babcock until he could justify firing him.

Well said.
Agreed.

 

[FraumBallard]

There's a lot more to Babcock that the Matthews-marner dilemma.

Honestly, stars are going to put up numbers no matter what. Babcock had other areas where he failed miserably and everyone knows it. Hence the reason he's coaching highschool hockey now

HOF Coach.
Call him what you want.
He is a HOF Coach.

 

[FraumBallard]

The team was about to miss the playoffs, thankfully Keefe turned that around

Pfff.
Right.
Keefe is so good.

 

[DarkKnight]

HOF Coach.
Call him what you want.
He is a HOF Coach.

It’s so funny here sometimes, HOF GM and future HOF Coach and they are shown so little respect, yet people who’ve done absolutely jack freaking squat in this league are revered as genius. It’s the weirdest thing going.

 

[AvroArrow]

I think Babcock understood what this team "needed" but went about it terribly. He seemed to understand the issues, lack of intensity, back checking, physicality etc. But just addressed those concerns terribly. Also him refusing to make adjustments was painful as hell to watch.

 

[The Masters]

They fired Babcock bc he was a prick

 

[Stephen]

He was a problem in the sense that he wasn't on the same page with the young core and not motivating them, developing them and having incremental success with them year over year. Results matter, and not having any means you lose your job eventually.

But obviously whatever game plan he tried to devise had some inherent merit to it, even if a lot of that came in the form of an adversarial old school "prick coach."

What remains to be seen is if this current game plan is closer to the championship secret sauce recipe.

 

[KuleminFan41]

The team was about to miss the playoffs, thankfully Keefe turned that around

lol No they weren't, Mike Babcock was fired in November, not February . The legend of Sheldon Keefe is growing each day it seems

 

[Dreakmur]

I think Babcock understood what this team "needed" but went about it terribly. He seemed to understand the issues, lack of intensity, back checking, physicality etc. But just addressed those concerns terribly. Also him refusing to make adjustments was painful as hell to watch.

Outside of the Marner situation, I’m not sure what else he did to upset the young core. I mean, they wanted to play more, and he refused to play then before they earned it… but that’s just good development.

As for the adjustments, I don’t think he ever changed from development coaching to winning coaching. It really looked like he was more concerned with teaching lessons than winning hockey games at times.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

There is a reason no one will touch him.

The Leafs are still paying him $5.8 Million until June 2023. He would most likely have to forgo that money if he takes a head coaching job elsewhere in the league.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

The same posters here that wanted a HOF GM in Lou Lamoriello replaced by Kyle Dubas, because supposedly, Lou was too old and out of touch, are the same group who wanted Babcock fired and replaced by Keefe.

So let’s see, what has Lou done since he left?

Oh just completely turned around the perennial basement dwelling New York Islanders, gotten them into the second round of the playoffs in his first year and then taken them into the conference finals the next two years and in the process won the GM of the year in back to back seasons.

So with all due respect, hopefully you’ll forgive me and many others here, who get just a little bit frustrated having to listen now to all the creatively lame excuses about why Dubas has failed to make any progress in moving the Leafs forward, especially when they appeared to be well on their way to finally doing something significant with the GM you wanted replaced.

The bottom line here is you got the GM you pushed for, you got the coach your GM supposedly needed and the results have been very underwhelming.

So perhaps remedy your misjudgment by; stopping the non-stop excuses, suggesting more time is needed and just own the results of your misjudgment.

I’m sorry, but Dubas just isn’t the great GM you thought he would be and he’ll most likely be replaced after this year, by someone with more experience after we have wasted 4 years figuring out what many of us already knew, which was, Dubas wasn’t ready to be the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[2 Slick]

I think Marner should play with Tavares and Matthews with Nylander again.

Anyway, status quo, not really overly anticipating much changing from the first exit woes.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I think Babcock understood what this team "needed" but went about it terribly. He seemed to understand the issues, lack of intensity, back checking, physicality etc. But just addressed those concerns terribly. Also him refusing to make adjustments was painful as hell to watch.

His arrogance was his downfall. You're asking to be fired when you play stupid head games with players and act like you have as much authourity as the GM.