Did Babcock have it right to begin with?

[Menzinger]

Babcock certainly wasn't wrong about some things like wanting his players to compete at a high level. Then again, wanting his players to skate hard wasnt why he was fired either.

Being right about some things doesn't erase his problems and the ultimate reasons that got him fired

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Babcock certainly wasn't wrong about some things like wanting his players to compete at a high level. Then again, wanting his players to skate hard want why he was fired either.

Being right about some things doesn't erase his problems and the ultimate reasons that got him fired

I used to wince when he would talk about his stars and their lower TOI compared to other stars. I know now why he did what he did. If you look at AM and MM, they were completely gassed by game 7. Some of it was frustration..but a lot of it was just being plain old tired. Babs knew it was a marathon and was trying to set them up for the long game. Problem is...he would also not play AM big minutes in a game 7...so again..he had good points that he took too far just as Keefe has the other way.

We need a new voice for this team...someone from outside to step in to this echo chamber of self congratulations for effort over winning and help them out by pointing out the flaws in their plan. Whether its a coach or GM that we need is to be seen.

But I do know that we were not just unlucky the last few years...its systematic.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I think it may be that the way Babcock handed out ice time was all about a balanced team first system that would hurt the selfish regular season stats of our super stars but would be critically important in the playoffs (His super youngleaf teams were always overwhelmingly underdogs in the playoffs.)

We as fans just wanted our super stars to “skill” their way to playoff series wins.
Keefe came in and let the inmates run the asylum while now in their primes… and we’re literally worse (losing AGAINST underdogs).

 

[Stonehands1990]

Yeah he had his glory days now he's just a self-aborbed coach who can't adapt and takes no responsibility

He’s also getting millions to stay home….

 

[ShaneFalco]

He’s also getting millions to stay home….

Yeah shit imagine that?!

 

[HC7]

Babcock said Leafs needed better D, and more veterans on the team.

The summer after Babcock is fired he gets Brodie instead of Barrie, and signs a bunch of guys like Simmonds, Thornton and trades for Foligno.

Idk you tell me...

 

[I am Canadian]

The same Babcock who played Marleau for 20+ minutes a night when he had what.. One or two points the whole series?

The man was stuck in the early 2000's and failed to adapt.

 

[I am Canadian]

Babcock said Leafs needed better D, and more veterans on the team.

The summer after Babcock is fired he gets Brodie instead of Barrie, and signs a bunch of guys like Simmonds, Thornton and trades for Foligno.

Idk you tell me...

Yeah, and we definitely made a ton of progress after signing these veterans right??

 

[A1LeafNation]

He was playing Marleau more than Matthews and benching Spezza. He also didn't win a round in like 10 years.

Good riddance to his dumb ass.

/thread

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Babcock was just too stubborn for his own good. While Keefe seemed to be a coach that had a more open mindset, he's been pretty stubborn too in certain aspects and it's costed us two years in a row now.

 

[HC7]

Yeah, and we definitely made a ton of progress after signing these veterans right??

No, but if Babcock was given a 3rd/4th line and the current D I think we get out of the 1st round. He would've never got outcoached by Ducharme I'll tell you that much.

To me it seems like Babcock wanted a 3rd/4th line that could grind, hit, and PK. What he got instead was the opposite.

We'll never know if it would've worked with Babs, but I'm more confident in him winning with this team than Keefe.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

And I don't know why people think Lou and Babcock would have co-existed. Babcock wanted and pretty much thought he was the GM. Lou probably would've fired his ass even sooner than Dubas.

 

[Stonehands1990]

No, but if Babcock was given a 3rd/4th line and the current D I think we get out of the 1st round. He would've never got outcoached by Ducharme I'll tell you that much.

To me it seems like Babcock wanted a 3rd/4th line that could grind, hit, and PK. What he got instead was the opposite.

We'll never know if it would've worked with Babs, but I'm more confident in him winning with this team than Keefe.

Keefe gets outcoached fairly easily

 

[Antropovsky]

I know we always complained on how Babcock had his lines setup, and there was this big deal that he wasnt playing Matthews with Marner. But after a season and half of watching Keefe do the opposite of what Babcock did in his tenure. I am wondering if Babcock was right after all!!!! I will explain.

Matthews scored 40+ goals without Marner correct? Who were his linemates? Hyman and Nylander.

Tavares scored 40+ goals with Marner correct? Never did it before correct?

PP started to struggle when Keefe put all his eggs in one basket when he took over. Worked for a bit but teams figured them out.

So here is my question......are the Leafs a better team with Matthews-Nylander and Tavares-Marner combos?

Does it truly give us to threats, because last year I didnt like what we saw.

Also, would it be wise putting those pairs on separate PPs? Load it up on 5 on 3s. But keep it spread out otherwise. It provides 2 different looks to opposing PKs.

What are you thoughts?

Well I bet if Babs was gm we'd still have Brown, Hyman and Moore. He loved guys with strong work ethics. He might even be a better GM than he is coach... as a gm he doesn't even have to talk to the players much which seems to be when he gets himself into alot of trouble.

 

[mikeyz]

There is no indication that will happen, it is just wishful thinking from some "fans".

The same people saying Leafs only show up in the regular season are now doubling back and saying they don't show up in the regular season.

There's no indication of that?

We lost Hyman, Bogosian and possibly Foligno. 3 guys that the Leafs desperately need. We have gotten much worse.

Plus do you remember the last normal season before Covid started? Florida was really nipping at our heels for 3rd place. And they've gotten better since then and like I said we've gotten worse.

Not to mention they are nowhere near as good as Tampa and Boston. Also, the Metropolitan division is stacked and the Leafs will be hard pressed to get 1 of those 2 spots.

Believe me my friend. Don't be naive. I am not making a guarantee that they'll miss the playoffs, but here are alot of indications that missing is a very real possibility.

Edit: And I didn't even mention losing Freddie and going with an unproven starting goalie in Campbell.

 

[Stonehands1990]

There's no indication of that?

We lost Hyman, Bogosian and possibly Foligno. 3 guys that the Leafs desperately need. We have gotten much worse.

Plus do you remember the last normal season before Covid started? Florida was really nipping at our heels for 3rd place. And they've gotten better since then and like I said we've gotten worse.

Not to mention they are nowhere near as good as Tampa and Boston. Also, the Metropolitan division is stacked and the Leafs will be hard pressed to get 1 of those 2 spots.

Believe me my friend. Don't be naive. I am not making a guarantee that they'll miss the playoffs, but here are alot of indications that missing is a very real possibility.

Edit: And I didn't even mention losing Freddie and going with an unproven starting goalie in Campbell.

Leafs will be in it until other teams start gearing up for the stretch drive and jockeying for position. Once coaches start dialing in Keefe will be out of his league. Just like last season.

 

[KapG]

I know we always complained on how Babcock had his lines setup, and there was this big deal that he wasnt playing Matthews with Marner. But after a season and half of watching Keefe do the opposite of what Babcock did in his tenure. I am wondering if Babcock was right after all!!!! I will explain.

Matthews scored 40+ goals without Marner correct? Who were his linemates? Hyman and Nylander.

Tavares scored 40+ goals with Marner correct? Never did it before correct?

PP started to struggle when Keefe put all his eggs in one basket when he took over. Worked for a bit but teams figured them out.

So here is my question......are the Leafs a better team with Matthews-Nylander and Tavares-Marner combos?

Does it truly give us to threats, because last year I didnt like what we saw.

Also, would it be wise putting those pairs on separate PPs? Load it up on 5 on 3s. But keep it spread out otherwise. It provides 2 different looks to opposing PKs.

What are you thoughts?

Babcock was f***ing garbage

 

[Dave92]

Babcock is unquestionably a better coach than Keefe. But he's not the right coach for this roster and he's unwilling to adapt at all.

 

[Leaf Fans]

This is it right here

It is also who they played.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Well I bet if Babs was gm we'd still have Brown, Hyman and Moore. He loved guys with strong work ethics. He might even be a better GM than he is coach... as a gm he doesn't even have to talk to the players much which seems to be when he gets himself into alot of trouble.

Maybe, it is just that it never happened so it cand be a never ending argument.

 

[TGB]

It's topics like these that make me want to create a GIF of a pendulum that swings in different directions as the Leafs' momentum, and fan support, changes throughout the season. It's pretty funny how things swing back and forth and how topics that were positive become incredibly negative and then back again.

I'm not blaming the coaching. For 5 games, the Leafs were able to match and outmatch the Habs, only losing two of those games in over time. They played more than well enough to beat the Habs. No, this one is entirely on the players for going limp at the end. You could even see it in the final game as the Leafs seemed to stop flying around the ice and were just going for little skates when they didn't have the puck.

 

[makbeer]

Babcock was the right coach for Lou.

Unfortunately the wrong coach for a kid spreadsheet GM.

 

[Sypher04]

Funny enough. I think both Keefe and Babcock were potentially wrong. And it all comes down to timing.

During the time that Babcock was coach we were a deeper team, largely due to our best players being on their ELCs. As a result, we had the depth behind them, to put them together more often and not be hurt by it

During Keefe's tenure here we have not been a very deep team, for the opposite reason. As a result, putting our best two players on the sand line has thinned out the lines even more than they need to be imo

I will say I am generally a supporter of going back to Matthews/Nylander and Tavares/Marner. I prefer the balance of lines 1 vs 2 this way better, I like that it forces to teams to defend hard mins against 2 lines, and I think it maximizes both Tavares and Nylander as their individual skill sets imo mesh better with Marner and Matthews respectively.

 

[Melrose Munch]

yes

 

[yubbers]

He was playing Marleau more than Matthews and benching Spezza. He also didn't win a round in like 10 years.

Good riddance to his dumb ass.

/thread

And Dubas missed the playoffs with Matthews and also hasn't won a round. So on your logic..... Shouldn't you be calling for his head? But that would of course require consistency and just plain ignoring the pedigree of Babcock.... The fact he coached the team to a franchise record in points..... Only to stick up for a rookie GM with not a lick of success? Hey..... You do you I guess.

It's fun watching ppl shit on a guywith cup rings and gold medals while fawning over a dude with literally no success. And he was handed a golden goose. There's no logic behind your argument at all.