Prospect Info: Devils Win #2 Overall -- Slafkovsky vs. Jiricek vs. Nemec

[TrufleShufle]

I’m only drafting a center if it’s Shane Wright. And then I’m rolling Nico-jack-Wright. If and when wright surpasses Nico then I’m rolling jack-Wright-Nico. Just like Edmonton rolls mcdavid-draisatil-nugent hopkins

Is it coincidence or caution to the immaturity here that the only combo you left out as Jack Nico Wright?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I’m only drafting a center if it’s Shane Wright. And then I’m rolling Nico-jack-Wright. If and when wright surpasses Nico then I’m rolling jack-Wright-Nico. Just like Edmonton rolls mcdavid-draisatil-nugent hopkins

Sorry but I need to point out that Nico is much better than RNH

 

[Lou is God]

Then maybe people arent being honest with themselves because if Slafkovsky was 6'1 like Wright, I doubt everyone would be vying for him with 'size' always coming up

Ive stated before I would like Slafkovsky and I think hes certainly skilled enough to be 2nd overall. So Im in no way trying to discredit him as the pick.

But you're kidding yourself if you dont think over half the fanbase doesnt want him because our top-6 producers are small compared to league average. And because of Fitzgeralds comments about getting bigger up front, which shouldnt involve Slafkovsky because we can acquire bigger wingers in the two years before he likely makes the NHL.

It sounds like you're doing a lot of assuming on what is in everyone's minds, but back to the size thing, if size makes someone more effect as a player - and it does - why shouldn't it be taken into consideration? I don't understand your take of what if Slaf wasn't a big boy.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Then maybe people arent being honest with themselves because if Slafkovsky was 6'1 like Wright, I doubt everyone would be vying for him with 'size' always coming up

Ive stated before I would like Slafkovsky and I think hes certainly skilled enough to be 2nd overall. So Im in no way trying to discredit him as the pick.

But you're kidding yourself if you dont think over half the fanbase doesnt want him because our top-6 producers are small compared to league average. And because of Fitzgeralds comments about getting bigger up front, which shouldnt involve Slafkovsky because we can acquire bigger wingers in the two years before he likely makes the NHL.

I would counter that half of the Devils fanbase wants Slafkovsky because he is the best forward with the highest upside who could be available at #2 overall.

The fact that Slafkovsky also plays a position of desperate need for the Devils (1st line wing) in a style of desperate need for the Devils (interior forward) is gravy.

Moreover, the only argument anyone will read for the Canadiens at #1 overall is "Wright or Slafkovsky". That's it. There are no other players in the discussion. Why would the Devils jump another player over whichever of those two Montreal passed on? All of a sudden if the Canadiens pass on Slafkovsky, then maybe Matt Savoie is a better prospect than Slafkovsky?

Slafkovsky is not 6'1, he's 6'4-220. And he may have the best combination of passing vision/puckhandling in the entire 2022 class. He's got elite intangibles and he can skate very well. He plays two-ways, and he plays physically, and he can score. He dominated the Olympics and has shined in the WC. Why are we trying to diminish him? When was the narrative invented which states that bigger players aren't as good at hockey as smaller ones just because they're bigger?

 

[TrufleShufle]

Then maybe people arent being honest with themselves because if Slafkovsky was 6'1 like Wright, I doubt everyone would be vying for him with 'size' always coming up

Ive stated before I would like Slafkovsky and I think hes certainly skilled enough to be 2nd overall. So Im in no way trying to discredit him as the pick.

But you're kidding yourself if you dont think over half the fanbase doesnt want him because our top-6 producers are small compared to league average. And because of Fitzgeralds comments about getting bigger up front, which shouldnt involve Slafkovsky because we can acquire bigger wingers in the two years before he likely makes the NHL.

Two things

1 Mostly the talk about his size comes from the crowd that hates to talk about or even consider it to be a factor, to everyone else it's just a bonus

2 I could see an argument for 1 year, but in what world would "2 years be likely?"

 

[ChopRite]

It sounds like you're doing a lot of assuming on what is in everyone's minds, but back to the size thing, if size makes someone more effect as a player - and it does - why shouldn't it be taken into consideration? I don't understand your take of what if Slaf wasn't a big boy.

Well its partial assumptions but its also rooted in an understanding of hockey players with size being overrated on average, especially when the team taking them is smaller at the position.

Ill rephrase; if a Dawson Mercer or a Jesper Bratt was 6'2", would we still be looking at Slafkovsky or would we look more toward a Nemec or Jiricek which is an actual organizational need moreso than wing?

And its somewhat evident in this thread when you see how everyone is almost expecting a Slafovsky pick at this point. I mean, the poll was in favor of him within the the first few days, and by a lot. And its not like his numbers are outstanding either. Not to mention most people dont want to pick Cooley simply because hes 5'10" and a center, yet everyone would be okay with Wright whos 6'1" and also a center. So size most certainly is a major player amongst the fans right now.

Simply put, I doubt very much that Fitzgerald and co. are looking at Slafkovsky and going 'man, his size would be perfect in our top-6.'. Itd be more along the lines of 'man, this Slafkovsky kid used his size well'.

 

[StevenToddIves]

The parallel to the NBA example was to show that team need as of today is overblown when drafting at 2. Thats all I was insinuating. Deandre Ayton is a big center while Luka Doncic is a superstar scorer, which it seemed Phoenix already had and is why I say current team need for a draft pick that high is risky. They passed on a potential instant HoFer whos only 23 and leading league playoff scoring

Slafkovsky is a great prospect and Id love to have him and his size. Im not silly enough to think we take him simply because hes skilled because, quite frankly, he isnt as 'purely skilled' as some of these other picks, its his skill along with his size that is tantalizing. If he was 6'1" would he still be at 2nd overall in mock drafts?

Im not claiming the Devils will only pick him for his size, im claiming thats the majority of the reason why our fans want him. And there is nothing wrong with that, but itll lead to major disappointment if they dont take him; when in reality we could end up signing a Nichuskin and draft a Nemec, and then what does size have to do with it anymore?

Just putting my thoughts out there on that aspect of all of this. Im a Devils supporter through and through so even if we reached for a name I havent heard of, Ill support the pick and find positives in it

Juraj Slafkovsky is the best passer of any forward in the 2022 draft, and I'm pretty sure that would be the same if he were 6'1. His puckhandling would be slightly less elite, because with his 6'4 frame he can pretty much hold off 90% of defenders by extending the puck with his long reach while blocking them off with his huge frame. But, as it actually stands, Slafkovsky is 6'4 and might also be the best puck handler in the 2022 draft.

So yes, Slafkovsky is as purely skilled as any forward in the 2022 draft, and no, being 6'4 does not diminish his elite skill-set.

 

[ChopRite]

Two things

1 Mostly the talk about his size comes from the crowd that hates to talk about or even consider it to be a factor, to everyone else it's just a bonus

2 I could see an argument for 1 year, but in what world would "2 years be likely?"

Saw an interview by him saying he is okay with taking his time to develop and feels no pressure to come right over. So in that case, a year in Liiga and then coming over for maybe a year in the AHL? Idk, I just said two years to be safe because, after all, he is only 18.

I personally see no reason he cant come right up after the draft and do decently well, given he is bigger than a large majority of the NHL already. And to me thats a huge hurdle for players coming up to a more physical, fast paced game where a smaller player could get hurt if they dont have their man strength in their skating and balance.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Well its partial assumptions but its also rooted in an understanding of hockey players with size being overrated on average, especially when the team taking them is smaller at the position.

Ill rephrase; if a Dawson Mercer or a Jesper Bratt was 6'2", would we still be looking at Slafkovsky or would we look more toward a Nemec or Jiricek which is an actual organizational need moreso than wing?

And its somewhat evident in this thread when you see how everyone is almost expecting a Slafovsky pick at this point. I mean, the poll was in favor of him within the the first few days, and by a lot. And its not like his numbers are outstanding either. Not to mention most people dont want to pick Cooley simply because hes 5'10" and a center, yet everyone would be okay with Wright whos 6'1" and also a center. So size most certainly is a major player amongst the fans right now.

Simply put, I doubt very much that Fitzgerald and co. are looking at Slafkovsky and going 'man, his size would be perfect in our top-6.'. Itd be more along the lines of 'man, this Slafkovsky kid used his size well'.

I looked it up before but not going to again, but roughly remember there are 10 guys taller than Slaf and way more than that the exact same size. Basically 30? something players listed 6'4 and above. Only a couple looking at the first round and only 1 projected to be 2 OA. Size is a bonus, not the reason. You can stop worrying.

 

[Lou is God]

Well its partial assumptions but its also rooted in an understanding of hockey players with size being overrated on average, especially when the team taking them is smaller at the position.

Ill rephrase; if a Dawson Mercer or a Jesper Bratt was 6'2", would we still be looking at Slafkovsky or would we look more toward a Nemec or Jiricek which is an actual organizational need moreso than wing?

And its somewhat evident in this thread when you see how everyone is almost expecting a Slafovsky pick at this point. I mean, the poll was in favor of him within the the first few days, and by a lot. And its not like his numbers are outstanding either. Not to mention most people dont want to pick Cooley simply because hes 5'10" and a center, yet everyone would be okay with Wright whos 6'1" and also a center. So size most certainly is a major player amongst the fans right now.

Simply put, I doubt very much that Fitzgerald and co. are looking at Slafkovsky and going 'man, his size would be perfect in our top-6.'. Itd be more along the lines of 'man, this Slafkovsky kid used his size well'.

Wait, if Mercer and Bratt were 6'2", how does that change our needs? They need to play big to do that, Zacha is 6'3" but he don't play big. And again, you're running on the false narrative that Slaf is all about size. I think you're trying too hard to be a contrarian for the sake of discussion.

 

[ChopRite]

Juraj Slafkovsky is the best passer of any forward in the 2022 draft, and I'm pretty sure that would be the same if he were 6'1. His puckhandling would be slightly less elite, because with his 6'4 frame he can pretty much hold off 90% of defenders by extending the puck with his long reach while blocking them off with his huge frame. But, as it actually stands, Slafkovsky is 6'4 and might also be the best puck handler in the 2022 draft.

So yes, Slafkovsky is as purely skilled as any forward in the 2022 draft, and no, being 6'4 does not diminish his elite skill-set.

Id argue that is certainly debatable because he wasn't in almost anyones top-5 before this last half year started and, just as a matter of personal opinion, this Cooley kid seems to be a very refined player who seems to have a high skill cap as well (and also had the draft rankings around 2 before Slafkovsky)

Late risers are common and is how we got Nico so I wont hold that against him. But its very similar to Kakko in the sense that both were showing strong against men and so their skill is probably overlooked slightly due to their entire package they possess, including size and tenacity.

But Ill stand by my thoughts that the Slafkovsky pick would in no way be as sexy if he was 6'1", so size certainly has a lot to do with it. If people are claiming hes more skilled then the reat of the draft class then Id need to hear why it didnt show up in his production at any point in the last two years

 

[ChopRite]

Wait, if Mercer and Bratt were 6'2", how does that change our needs? They need to play big to do that, Zacha is 6'3" but he don't play big. And again, you're running on the false narrative that Slaf is all about size. I think you're trying too hard to be a contrarian for the sake of discussion.

Its not being a contrarian for discussion, its reading this thread and seeing that Cooley is an absolute no-go for the Devils because hes 'small', and 'plays the same as our guys' which the 2nd point i dont quite get because if hes good what does it matter?

Doesnt take a rocket scientist to then parallel that to the favoritism of the 6'4" forward who has worse stats then a majority of the top-10.

And id be more of a contrarian if I was advocating against Slafkovsky. Hes the pick I want because I think he uses his size very well. But to think that most, or even nobody, is wanting Slafkovsky for his size is just silly. Its most certainly the biggest reason why Devils fans want him (no pun intended lol).

 

[TrufleShufle]

Its not being a contrarian for discussion, its reading this thread and seeing that Cooley is an absolute no-go for the Devils because hes 'small', and 'plays the same as our guys' which the 2nd point i dont quite get because if hes good what does it matter?

Doesnt take a rocket scientist to then parallel that to the favoritism of the 6'4" forward who has worse stats then a majority of the top-10.

And id be more of a contrarian if I was advocating against Slafkovsky. Hes the pick I want because I think he uses his size very well. But to think that most, or even nobody, is wanting Slafkovsky for his size is just silly. Its most certainly the biggest reason why Devils fans want him (no pun intended lol).

"its reading this thread and seeing that Cooley is an absolute no-go for the Devils because hes 'small', and 'plays the same as our guys'"

This issue is, you are not reading that. You are reading over and over it's because Slaf is the better player, but ignoring it based on what you think "the fanbase" is thinking.

 

[Lou is God]

Its not being a contrarian for discussion, its reading this thread and seeing that Cooley is an absolute no-go for the Devils because hes 'small', and 'plays the same as our guys' which the 2nd point i dont quite get because if hes good what does it matter?

Doesnt take a rocket scientist to then parallel that to the favoritism of the 6'4" forward who has worse stats then a majority of the top-10.

And id be more of a contrarian if I was advocating against Slafkovsky. Hes the pick I want because I think he uses his size very well. But to think that most, or even nobody, is wanting Slafkovsky for his size is just silly. Its most certainly the biggest reason why Devils fans want him (no pun intended lol).

Show me where anyone has said they don't want to draft Cooley simply because he's small. You're making arguments no one has made. If Cooley was considered the better player than I'm pretty sure most would say draft him, but that's not the case.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Show me where anyone has said they don't want to draft Cooley simply because he's small. You're making arguments no one has made. If Cooley was considered the better player than I'm pretty sure most would say draft him, but that's not the case.

I mean he's got a point, it's why this fanbase wanted Kakko over Jack, they just wouldn't admit it.

 

[ChopRite]

"its reading this thread and seeing that Cooley is an absolute no-go for the Devils because hes 'small', and 'plays the same as our guys'"

This issue is, you are not reading that. You are reading over and over it's because Slaf is the better player, but ignoring it based on what you think "the fanbase" is thinking.

I really dont want to because itd be time consuming but come on, I can go five pages back and find at least ten examples of Cooley being cast aside because hes small and plays like Jack and Jesper.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I really dont want to because itd be time consuming but come on, I can go five pages back and find at least ten examples of Cooley being cast aside because hes small and plays like Jack and Jesper.

Do it.

 

[ChopRite]

Show me where anyone has said they don't want to draft Cooley simply because he's small. You're making arguments no one has made. If Cooley was considered the better player than I'm pretty sure most would say draft him, but that's not the case.

Im not going to do that. If you havent read it then Ill just assume you skipped over it

Logan Cooley has in no way gotten a fair shake in this thread. I mean of all things to contest, thats not the one

Do it.

Since you dared me! On my break.

 

[Lou is God]

I really dont want to because itd be time consuming but come on, I can go five pages back and find at least ten examples of Cooley being cast aside because hes small and plays like Jack and Jesper.

No, because a majority of us don't consider him the better player. And even if they were just equal you still take Slaf because in that case you do draft for need.

 

[ChopRite]

No, because a majority of us don't consider him the better player. And even if they were just equal you still take Slaf because in that case you do draft for need.

I mean... he isnt even an option in the poll

The seemingly unanimous 2nd overall in January isnt in the poll!!

But since I was asked a few times Ill onlige and gather a bunch of quotes on my break. I have no issue going back and forth sbout this but theres no need to make me look silly and act like that hasnt been a large part of the discussion

 

[Oneiro]

I'd like to see him shoot more because let's face it: the production is the issue here.

I don't think most of the critics are too worried about the skating, the playmaking or really the hockey sense. I think his puck-handling is being overrated but it's fine. But you need to see some finishing ability. Getting a 50-60 pt player at No. 2 is not a horrific outcome but it's not great either.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I mean... he isnt even an option in the poll

The seemingly unanimous 2nd overall in January isnt in the poll!!

But since I was asked a few times Ill onlige and gather a bunch of quotes on my break. I have no issue going back and forth sbout this but theres no need to make me look silly and act like that hasnt been a large part of the discussion

He should be in the poll. I’d guess that most of the other is him but I’d also bet that if his name was in it he’d have a few more votes

 

[JimEIV]

Someone should come up with a height/weight numerical representation..

because height alone is meaningless.


Geertsen is 227 lbs. - Zacha is 210 lbs. - Bastian is 205 lbs. - Vesey is 202 lbs. - That is all the forwards over 200 lbs - One isn't a regular - 2 are 4th liners and the other is pretty soft...

Then you have
Hughes is 175 lbs.- #1 Forward TOI Even Strength
Hischier is 175 lbs.- #2 Forward TOI Even Strength
Bratt is 175 lbs.- #3 Forward TOI Even Strength
Mercer is180 lbs. - #4 Forward TOI Even Strength
Sharangovich 196 lbs. #6 and Zacha 210 lbs. #5 round out the top 6 (1 second difference between Sharangovich and Zazch in TOI Even Strength)

Johnson is 194 lbs. - #7 Forward TOI Even Strength
Tatar is 173 lbs. - #8 Forward TOI Even Strength
Boqvist is 180 lbs. - #9 Forward TOI Even Strength

only 3 forwards in the top 9 over 180 lbs.

I bet the average NCAA Div 1 womens softball team has more starters over 180 lbs.

 

[Lou is God]

I mean... he isnt even an option in the poll

The seemingly unanimous 2nd overall in January isnt in the poll!!

But since I was asked a few times Ill onlige and gather a bunch of quotes on my break. I have no issue going back and forth sbout this but theres no need to make me look silly and act like that hasnt been a large part of the discussion

Lol, don't hurt your back overreaching.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Im not going to do that. If you havent read it then Ill just assume you skipped over it

Logan Cooley has in no way gotten a fair shake in this thread. I mean of all things to contest, thats not the one


Since you dared me! On my break.

Thanks, and don't get me wrong. I fully expect you to find one, maybe two random posts from people off handedly putting down Cooley because of his size or whatever, while completely ignoring the other few hundred posts talking about it Slaf not "only being about size." But I really need to know where this phantom argument started.