Prospect Info: Devils Win #2 Overall -- Slafkovsky vs. Jiricek vs. Nemec

[Captain3rdLine]

Someone should come up with a height/weight numerical representation..

because height alone is meaningless.


Geertsen is 227 lbs. - Zacha is 210 lbs. - Bastian is 205 lbs. - Vesey is 202 lbs. - That is all the forwards over 200 lbs - One isn't a regular - 2 are 4th liners and the other is pretty soft...

Then you have
Hughes is 175 lbs.- #1 Forward TOI Even Strength
Hischier is 175 lbs.- #2 Forward TOI Even Strength
Bratt is 175 lbs.- #3 Forward TOI Even Strength
Mercer is180 lbs. - #4 Forward TOI Even Strength
Sharangovich 196 lbs. #6 and Zacha 210 lbs. #5 round out the top 6 (1 second difference between Sharangovich and Zazch in TOI Even Strength)

Johnson is 194 lbs. - #7 Forward TOI Even Strength
Tatar is 173 lbs. - #8 Forward TOI Even Strength
Boqvist is 180 lbs. - #9 Forward TOI Even Strength

only 3 forwards in the top 9 over 180 lbs.

I the average NCAA Div 1 women softball team has more starters over 180 lbs.

Weight is even more meaningless. Not completely meaningless but weight doesn’t equal strength whatsoever. There’s some correlation but being heavier doesn’t mean stronger at all. Nico is on the lighter side but is seemingly stronger and plays stronger than Zacha and a lot of guys heavier than him. I could care less that he’s only 175lb when he wins lots of battles, is good down low and is hard to knock of the puck. Bratt is also much stronger than his weight.

Height alone is meaningless when it comes to strength but weight isn’t any more meaningful. Lots of players who are light but strong as an ox and lots of players who are heavy but very weak.

 

[Guttersniped]

Well its partial assumptions but its also rooted in an understanding of hockey players with size being overrated on average, especially when the team taking them is smaller at the position.

Ill rephrase; if a Dawson Mercer or a Jesper Bratt was 6'2", would we still be looking at Slafkovsky or would we look more toward a Nemec or Jiricek which is an actual organizational need moreso than wing?

And its somewhat evident in this thread when you see how everyone is almost expecting a Slafovsky pick at this point. I mean, the poll was in favor of him within the the first few days, and by a lot. And its not like his numbers are outstanding either. Not to mention most people dont want to pick Cooley simply because hes 5'10" and a center, yet everyone would be okay with Wright whos 6'1" and also a center. So size most certainly is a major player amongst the fans right now.

Simply put, I doubt very much that Fitzgerald and co. are looking at Slafkovsky and going 'man, his size would be perfect in our top-6.'. Itd be more along the lines of 'man, this Slafkovsky kid used his size well'.

If Luke Hughes was RHD would you have less interest in Jiricek and/or Nemec?

It sound to me like people only are interested in them because we need RHD and not just because they think they’re good. Oh wait, we don’t live in some alternative reality. Never mind.

Wright is still the consensus 1OA, even if there’s a lack of enthusiasm for him. It’s tough to turn that down if he falls.

Much earlier this season some thought Cooley was going to threaten him for 1OA. Instead he’s fallen to 2/3 with Slafkovsky charging up. Nemec is right up there. (Jiricek’s injury didn’t allow for as much movement.)

General public opinion has Slafkovsky very close to Cooley at this point, it’s not just some peculiar fancy of a handful of posters here to want to draft him 2nd. And defensemen are traditionally seen as tougher to project, so there’s an argument against taking a defenseman with a top pick two years in a row.

Body mass, height & weight, is an element of contact sports. Finding a humongous power forward for the top six is huge deal for a team. That is in fact a big part of his appeal. So? And?

And as much as we need RHD, and as annoying as it is that Shero and then Fitz never properly addressed that need in earlier drafts, doesn’t mean we have to use this 1st on it.

You can want one of the RHD or Cooley (who should have been in the poll) but saying people here are wrong to want Slafkovsky, while lots of people outside of this board really like him a hell of a lot as a prospect, is not a good argument.

Someone should come up with a height/weight numerical representation..

because height alone is meaningless.


Geertsen is 227 lbs. - Zacha is 210 lbs. - Bastian is 205 lbs. - Vesey is 202 lbs. - That is all the forwards over 200 lbs - One isn't a regular - 2 are 4th liners and the other is pretty soft...

Then you have
Hughes is 175 lbs.- #1 Forward TOI Even Strength
Hischier is 175 lbs.- #2 Forward TOI Even Strength
Bratt is 175 lbs.- #3 Forward TOI Even Strength
Mercer is180 lbs. - #4 Forward TOI Even Strength
Sharangovich 196 lbs. #6 and Zacha 210 lbs. #5 round out the top 6 (1 second difference between Sharangovich and Zazch in TOI Even Strength)

Johnson is 194 lbs. - #7 Forward TOI Even Strength
Tatar is 173 lbs. - #8 Forward TOI Even Strength
Boqvist is 180 lbs. - #9 Forward TOI Even Strength

only 3 forwards in the top 9 over 180 lbs.

I bet the average NCAA Div 1 womens softball team has more starters over 180 lbs.

“Someone should come up with a height/weight numerical representation..”

It’s called Body Mass Index (BMI) and it was invented in the early 1800s.

What Is My BMI?

 

[TrufleShufle]

I mean... he isnt even an option in the poll

The seemingly unanimous 2nd overall in January isnt in the poll!!

But since I was asked a few times Ill onlige and gather a bunch of quotes on my break. I have no issue going back and forth sbout this but theres no need to make me look silly and act like that hasnt been a large part of the discussion

I mean it has been a large part of the discussion, but the opposite of how you are portraying it. It's a bunch of posters saying "YOU DON'T DRAFT FOR SIZE," and a bunch responding saying, yea we know, but this player we will probably pick, being big is a bonus. Then "YOU DON'T DRAFT FOR NEED," again, we know, but this player we will probably pick, being a need is a bonus.

 

[Lou is God]

Thanks, and don't get me wrong. I fully expect you to find one, maybe two random posts from people off handedly putting down Cooley because of his size or whatever, while completely ignoring the other few hundred posts talking about it Slaf not "only being about size." But I really need to know where this phantom argument started.

I want to see see the posts that state Cooley is a better player but they don't want him because he's small.

Hell man, I'm trying to figure out why this is such a big deal we're detailing a thread over it. Good God.

 

[JimEIV]

“Someone should come up with a height/weight numerical representation..”

It’s called Body Mass Index (BMI) and it was invented in the early 1800s.

What Is My BMI?

Of course I know what BMI is....I just didn't think of it I think it would be cool though to see that as an additional stat line.

 

[devilsfan35]

From what I’ve seen from slafkovsky:
His ceiling is mikko rantanen while his floor is jesse puljujarvi. He’s more physical and faster than zacha so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Someone should come up with a height/weight numerical representation..

because height alone is meaningless.


Geertsen is 227 lbs. - Zacha is 210 lbs. - Bastian is 205 lbs. - Vesey is 202 lbs. - That is all the forwards over 200 lbs - One isn't a regular - 2 are 4th liners and the other is pretty soft...

Then you have
Hughes is 175 lbs.- #1 Forward TOI Even Strength
Hischier is 175 lbs.- #2 Forward TOI Even Strength
Bratt is 175 lbs.- #3 Forward TOI Even Strength
Mercer is180 lbs. - #4 Forward TOI Even Strength
Sharangovich 196 lbs. #6 and Zacha 210 lbs. #5 round out the top 6 (1 second difference between Sharangovich and Zazch in TOI Even Strength)

Johnson is 194 lbs. - #7 Forward TOI Even Strength
Tatar is 173 lbs. - #8 Forward TOI Even Strength
Boqvist is 180 lbs. - #9 Forward TOI Even Strength

only 3 forwards in the top 9 over 180 lbs.

I bet the average NCAA Div 1 womens softball team has more starters over 180 lbs.

Zetterlund likely plays on the 3rd line next year. 220 lbs and built like a truck. Holtz is knocking on the door of 200 and has the whole offseason to train.

 

[Guttersniped]

Of course I know what BMI is....I just didn't think of it I think it would be cool though to see that as an additional stat line.

They usually provide height & weight, very few people would know off-hand how to interpret BMI if it was listed. (And it would be nice if something better and newer than BMI existed, maybe it does and I just don’t know about it.)

Teams certainly cared about body mass. There was never a strict bias against all short players, a few very stocky short guys always got drafted.

You could be lanky or short, but lanky and short was seen as kiss of death for draft eligibility.

Then ~10-15 years ago that slowly started to change, but before that drafted short guys basically had the build of Iron Dwarfs.

 

[JimEIV]

Weight is even more meaningless. Not completely meaningless but weight doesn’t equal strength whatsoever. There’s some correlation but being heavier doesn’t mean stronger at all. Nico is on the lighter side but is seemingly stronger and plays stronger than Zacha and a lot of guys heavier than him. I could care less that he’s only 175lb when he wins lots of battles, is good down low and is hard to knock of the puck. Bratt is also much stronger than his weight.

Height alone is meaningless when it comes to strength but weight isn’t any more meaningful. Lots of players who are light but strong as an ox and lots of players who are heavy but very weak.

Strength is irrelevant in a collision. Kinetic Energy is key...It is also true for board battles and net front...Mass plays an equal part to speed...

It's pretty simple...mass X velocity = momentum.

 

[glenwo2]

The more I read and see of Slafkovsky, the more I want us to take him. I wouldn't be upset if we end up with Jiricek though.

Would you be upset if the Devils decided to draft Wright?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Strength is irrelevant in a collision. Kinetic Energy is key...It is also true for board battles and net front...Mass plays an equal part to speed...

It's pretty simple...mass X velocity = momentum.

No that’s just stupid. We’re not talking about guy skating at eachother and running into eachother. That just never happens.

We’re talking about winning battles, outmuscling guys, being hard on the puck, hard to knock of the puck, etc.

Or at least that’s what I’m talking about and what actually helps win hockey games. What you’re talking about is almost completely irrelevant to the sport of hockey. Being heavier helps a little bit but it’s not close to as important as being strong.

 

[glenwo2]

He likes teams that can't win in the playoffs?

Now that's just mean. lol

With the talk of trading down, I feel like there's only two scenarios where that's a possibility:

1. Montreal takes Slaf #1, which gives us a perfect opportunity to trade down and let Seattle and Arizona fight each other as to who gets Wright, and we take Nemec or Jiricek with the 3rd or 4th pick. I think it's unlikely that Montreal takes Slaf at #1, but I also think this is the most likely way a tradedown works,

2. The Devils's scouts are deadset on one of the RD, and trade down one or two spots and pick up an asset or two. This depends on how badly Seattle and Arizona want Slaf, and it's a bit riskier too.

I get the sense (I'm not nearly as well versed as most of you) that Slaf will likely pull away with the #2 ranking (if not #1) after his WC performance so far. Despite my earlier Zacha joke, I absolutely love the kid's game and would happily draft him at #2. But we also need some high-end RD prospects. Glad I don't get paid to make these decisions.

3rd scenario :

Devils draft Wright and call it a day because it's Shane Wright.

 

[Mike27Devils]

Nazar is the more interior player to Cooley, I'm not sure what you're seeing. Nazar prefers the tight areas, Cooley likes to circle high and make plays in space. Cooley has little in common stylistically with Point and Nazar has even less in common with Boqvist.

In the U-18 tournament, Cooley had 3 goals and 10 points in 6 games playing on the first line between first-round locks Cutter Gauthier and Jimmy Snuggerud. Frank Nazar had 3 goals and 9 points on the second line between likely-first-rounder Ian Howard and 16 year old John Leonard. I'm not sure where Cooley was far better in the tournament. They were both equally outstanding.

Agree to disagree I guess. When projecting NHL talent though points are further down the list of evaluating talent I'd say though, so not sure I like the comparing of points for arguments sake. Eye test told me Cooley's game was much more impactful than Nazar's and more suitable to the NHL. Nazar was often fairly unnoticeable to me. Speaking of points, Slovkovsky showed the last 2 games that he could be a stud in the NHL but just didn't put up the points to show it in those games. Like I said, time will tell when hopefully both players have maybe 150 NHL games under their belts.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Id argue that is certainly debatable because he wasn't in almost anyones top-5 before this last half year started and, just as a matter of personal opinion, this Cooley kid seems to be a very refined player who seems to have a high skill cap as well (and also had the draft rankings around 2 before Slafkovsky)

Late risers are common and is how we got Nico so I wont hold that against him. But its very similar to Kakko in the sense that both were showing strong against men and so their skill is probably overlooked slightly due to their entire package they possess, including size and tenacity.

But Ill stand by my thoughts that the Slafkovsky pick would in no way be as sexy if he was 6'1", so size certainly has a lot to do with it. If people are claiming hes more skilled then the reat of the draft class then Id need to hear why it didnt show up in his production at any point in the last two years

I'm sorry man, there is no similarity to Kakko whatsoever. I never want to insult anyone, but you're running a completely cyclical debate here. I've just written pages detailing Slafkovsky's skill set. You can jump on Twitter and his highlights from today are all over the place.

If you want to run the size argument, then dig a bit deeper and ask why Noah Ostlund and Lane Hutson are not universally considered 1st round picks.

But taking the best playmaker/puckhandler in the draft in Slafkovsky and saying the size is the only reason people would draft him and has nothing to do with skill is just completely inane and I can only repeat the same facts over and over again so many times.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I mean he's got a point, it's why this fanbase wanted Kakko over Jack, they just wouldn't admit it.

Me in 500 posts in 2019: Drafting Kakko over Hughes would be a cataclysmic failure.
Me in 500 posts in 2022: Drafting Cooley over Slafkovsky would be a cataclysmic failure.

Yup, clearly Slafkovsky is just like Kakko and it's all about size.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I mean... he isnt even an option in the poll

The seemingly unanimous 2nd overall in January isnt in the poll!!

But since I was asked a few times Ill onlige and gather a bunch of quotes on my break. I have no issue going back and forth sbout this but theres no need to make me look silly and act like that hasnt been a large part of the discussion

I named the thread, and I made the poll. I did this almost a full month after my spring rankings, which had Slafkovsky at #2 and Cooley at #6. This, combined with the sheer idiocy of drafting a 3C at #2 overall when there are equivalent-or-superior prospects available of more positional and stylistic need, caused me to name the poll Slafkovsky vs. Jiricek vs. Nemec. If I had been forced to add a 4th name, it would have been Frank Nazar.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

The more I look at and think about the Kakko thing the more I start to think he was a good prospect who could still turn into a solid top 6 forward but that he was overrated because of his production and perceived readiness.

I think he just may have been more developed than other kids his age, had a pretty good skillset and produced well in his draft year. Just looking back as STI has said he really didn’t and still doesn’t have an elite skillset.

Without the production I doubt he was as highly viewed and necessarily goes second. If anything I think that maybe goes to the argument that production isn’t close to as important as other things when it comes to drafting.

 

[ninetyeight]

From a fans perspective I think this was less exciting time to win the lottery. Feels like you could justify taking any of Wright Cooley Slaf Nemec or Jiricek at #2, and at least one of them would have still been available at #5. But then again teams behind us could have bumped us down and at least now the staff gets to pick who they like the most. I trust their decision, although I do hope they don’t go too off the board and reach say with the finns or russians. I could even see someone like Öhgren going really high.

Anyway for what it’s worth I don’t think any of these guys are a sure thing. I’m intrigued with the Slaf pick, but there are definitely question marks. For one he definitely isn’t scoring as much as you’d hope from a #2oa pick. He was in the olympics, but I think his sh% was something ridiculous like 30%. He’s been pretty average in the wc so far. Some TPS fans have also mentioned that he sometimes tries to force plays and gives up the puck a lot more than you’d like. Jiricek seems like the safest bet, I think at worse he’d be a serviceable bottom pair guy. Would have been a no brainer at #5 for me, but I definitely don’t hate him at #2 either. I won’t go much into Nemec, so I don’t piss people off again, but I do think he’s looked better now at the WC than at the olympics. And if the Devils do pick him, I’ll be fully onboard rooting for him 100%. And since we already have Nico Jack and Mercer, I know many of you don’t even entertain the possibility of picking another C, but I think these guys are probably the top2 of the draft. If by any chance the habs don’t take Wright, we should, unless someone is willing to over pay by a lot. And Cooley has been putting up similar numbers to Zegras and Boldy, while playing in far far less skilled team. I just don’t see how he doesn’t become a dominant top6 guy in the NHL.

Anyway I’m glad I don’t have to make this decision.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Thanks, and don't get me wrong. I fully expect you to find one, maybe two random posts from people off handedly putting down Cooley because of his size or whatever, while completely ignoring the other few hundred posts talking about it Slaf not "only being about size." But I really need to know where this phantom argument started.

I'm looking forward for the Byron Bader Tweet which says Slafkovsky should not be a top 10 pick.

 

[JimEIV]

Me in 500 posts in 2019: Drafting Kakko over Hughes would be a cataclysmic failure.
Me in 500 posts in 2022: Drafting Cooley over Slafkovsky would be a cataclysmic failure.

Yup, clearly Slafkovsky is just like Kakko and it's all about size.

We're just passing the time til July Slafkovsky will be the pick.

I want to change my vote to Pedro

 

[Devs3cups]

From a fans perspective I think this was less exciting time to win the lottery. Feels like you could justify taking any of Wright Cooley Slaf Nemec or Jiricek at #2, and at least one of them would have still been available at #5. But then again teams behind us could have bumped us down and at least now the staff gets to pick who they like the most. I trust their decision, although I do hope they don’t go too off the board and reach say with the finns or russians. I could even see someone like Öhgren going really high.

Anyway for what it’s worth I don’t think any of these guys are a sure thing. I’m intrigued with the Slaf pick, but there are definitely question marks. For one he definitely isn’t scoring as much as you’d hope from a #2oa pick. He was in the olympics, but I think his sh% was something ridiculous like 30%. He’s been pretty average in the wc so far. Some TPS fans have also mentioned that he sometimes tries to force plays and gives up the puck a lot more than you’d like. Jiricek seems like the safest bet, I think at worse he’d be a serviceable bottom pair guy. Would have been a no brainer at #5 for me, but I definitely don’t hate him at #2 either. I won’t go much into Nemec, so I don’t piss people off again, but I do think he’s looked better now at the WC than at the olympics. And if the Devils do pick him, I’ll be fully onboard rooting for him 100%. And since we already have Nico Jack and Mercer, I know many of you don’t even entertain the possibility of picking another C, but I think these guys are probably the top2 of the draft. If by any chance the habs don’t take Wright, we should, unless someone is willing to over pay by a lot. And Cooley has been putting up similar numbers to Zegras and Boldy, while playing in far far less skilled team. I just don’t see how he doesn’t become a dominant top6 guy in the NHL.

Anyway I’m glad I don’t have to make this decision.

I'm far from a prospect expert, but I've watched every Slovakia game so far in the WC and Slaf in my opinion has been their best player and has been far from average. He's creating every time he's on the ice.

 

[Rusty7550]

From a fans perspective I think this was less exciting time to win the lottery. Feels like you could justify taking any of Wright Cooley Slaf Nemec or Jiricek at #2, and at least one of them would have still been available at #5. But then again teams behind us could have bumped us down and at least now the staff gets to pick who they like the most. I trust their decision, although I do hope they don’t go too off the board and reach say with the finns or russians. I could even see someone like Öhgren going really high.

Anyway for what it’s worth I don’t think any of these guys are a sure thing. I’m intrigued with the Slaf pick, but there are definitely question marks. For one he definitely isn’t scoring as much as you’d hope from a #2oa pick. He was in the olympics, but I think his sh% was something ridiculous like 30%. He’s been pretty average in the wc so far. Some TPS fans have also mentioned that he sometimes tries to force plays and gives up the puck a lot more than you’d like. Jiricek seems like the safest bet, I think at worse he’d be a serviceable bottom pair guy. Would have been a no brainer at #5 for me, but I definitely don’t hate him at #2 either. I won’t go much into Nemec, so I don’t piss people off again, but I do think he’s looked better now at the WC than at the olympics. And if the Devils do pick him, I’ll be fully onboard rooting for him 100%. And since we already have Nico Jack and Mercer, I know many of you don’t even entertain the possibility of picking another C, but I think these guys are probably the top2 of the draft. If by any chance the habs don’t take Wright, we should, unless someone is willing to over pay by a lot. And Cooley has been putting up similar numbers to Zegras and Boldy, while playing in far far less skilled team. I just don’t see how he doesn’t become a dominant top6 guy in the NHL.

Anyway I’m glad I don’t have to make this decision.

I disagree with this. He's been probably our best forward. Creating a ton of chances for himself and teammates in every game. Overall, all kids (Slaf, Nemec, Sykora) are doing well, better than our veterans.

 

[ninetyeight]

I haven’t watched all the games, so I take your guys word for it. I’d just like to see a little more production from a #2 pick, especially against teams like France and Germany. Maybe he just needs better linemates then.

This years WC isn’t very high level. For reference Sami Vatanen has been looking like Cale Makar out there.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

From a fans perspective I think this was less exciting time to win the lottery. Feels like you could justify taking any of Wright Cooley Slaf Nemec or Jiricek at #2, and at least one of them would have still been available at #5. But then again teams behind us could have bumped us down and at least now the staff gets to pick who they like the most. I trust their decision, although I do hope they don’t go too off the board and reach say with the finns or russians. I could even see someone like Öhgren going really high.

Anyway for what it’s worth I don’t think any of these guys are a sure thing. I’m intrigued with the Slaf pick, but there are definitely question marks. For one he definitely isn’t scoring as much as you’d hope from a #2oa pick. He was in the olympics, but I think his sh% was something ridiculous like 30%. He’s been pretty average in the wc so far. Some TPS fans have also mentioned that he sometimes tries to force plays and gives up the puck a lot more than you’d like. Jiricek seems like the safest bet, I think at worse he’d be a serviceable bottom pair guy. Would have been a no brainer at #5 for me, but I definitely don’t hate him at #2 either. I won’t go much into Nemec, so I don’t piss people off again, but I do think he’s looked better now at the WC than at the olympics. And if the Devils do pick him, I’ll be fully onboard rooting for him 100%. And since we already have Nico Jack and Mercer, I know many of you don’t even entertain the possibility of picking another C, but I think these guys are probably the top2 of the draft. If by any chance the habs don’t take Wright, we should, unless someone is willing to over pay by a lot. And Cooley has been putting up similar numbers to Zegras and Boldy, while playing in far far less skilled team. I just don’t see how he doesn’t become a dominant top6 guy in the NHL.

Anyway I’m glad I don’t have to make this decision.

First I’m personally really excited because I want Slafkovsky and have been hoping we’d be in a position to take him for months.

Also not sure how you can say he’s been pretty average in the WC? Like have you been watching? That’s so ridiculous it’s not even funny. He’s been the most dangerous player on his team and created a ton of good looks for himself and others. All while showing off his rare combination of skill, IQ, and size.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I haven’t watched all the games, so I take your guys word for it. I’d just like to see a little more production from a #2 pick, especially against teams like France and Germany. Maybe he just needs better linemates then.

This years WC isn’t very high level. For reference Sami Vatanen has been looking like Cale Makar out there.

He could easily have 6 assists in this tournament so far.