Devils Team Discussion (team/player news and notes) ‎2015 offseason IX

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SpeakingOfTheDevils

Devils Advocate
Jan 22, 2010
15,659
7,940
Philadelphia, PA
I'm just very nervous about what I feel is a kind of "it's ok to be lousy this year" approach. Sure, we aren't winning the Cup this year no matter what. I'm not a fool. Nor am I advocating trading all of our draft picks for a quick fix. I just don't willingly accept mediocrity that's all. Maybe it's just me.

To me, signing a Versteeg or a Santorelli to fill a roster spot is accepting mediocrity. I'd much rather sit through camp and the preseason, assess what we have, and move from there, instead of cranking a kneejerk signing the week leading up to camp.

Like I said, Shero's patience should not be mistaken for him idling. And it certainly shouldn't be mistaken for him accepting mediocrity.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
72,705
46,565
PA
I'm just very nervous about what I feel is a kind of "it's ok to be lousy this year" approach. Sure, we aren't winning the Cup this year no matter what. I'm not a fool. Nor am I advocating trading all of our draft picks for a quick fix. I just don't willingly accept mediocrity that's all. Maybe it's just me.

so signing one of those bums means we won't be mediocre?

thats basically what you're implying.
 

Devils Dominion

Now we Plummet
Feb 16, 2007
48,509
3,716
NJ
Versteeg and Santorelli would have just been this year's Ryder and Havlat. How many times do we have to go down that road before we realize it doesn't work, because that's pretty much what we've done for the past decade.

The teams that are truly good teams in the NHL are those that have drafted well for several seasons in a row. That is what we have to do. Teams are not built through free agency or trades. Especially not when you have as great of a lack of assets as we do.

Versteeg is shot and not even close to the effective player he was with Florida in 2012.
Did Carolina recently acquire him in a trade?

Santorelli has a lot more to offer than Havlat/Ryder mainly due to he is much younger and still has skating legs.

We should not go the offer sheet route with Huberdeau.
 

Jersey Fresh

Video Et Taceo
Feb 23, 2004
26,724
9,667
T.A.
I'm just very nervous about what I feel is a kind of "it's ok to be lousy this year" approach. Sure, we aren't winning the Cup this year no matter what. I'm not a fool. Nor am I advocating trading all of our draft picks for a quick fix. I just don't willingly accept mediocrity that's all. Maybe it's just me.

Well, then I have no idea what you're advocating. Shero, quite rightly, is playing the long game.

It's pretty obvious looking at our roster what we do and don't have. Really, acceptance has nothing to do with it.
 

SeidoN

#OGOC #2018 HFW Predictions Champ
Aug 8, 2012
30,796
6,445
AEF
we have no 3rd rounder. theres no offer sheet for Huberdeau that makes sense
 

Better Call Sal

Salnalysis
Nov 24, 2011
25,679
39,548
New Jersey
Not sure if this had been brought up by anyone earlier, so I apologize if it had, but it looks like our first preseason game this Sunday against Boston will be on NHL Network. Starts at 7.

I didn't realize this, so I thought it was pretty cool. Can't believe hockey is just around the corner!
 

217 Forever

Registered User
Sep 15, 2014
2,025
99
Well, then I have no idea what you're advocating. Shero, quite rightly, is playing the long game.

It's pretty obvious looking at our roster what we do and don't have. Really, acceptance has nothing to do with it.

We all know about best laid plans...

I'm just a little surprised at many on here considering who our GM was. I had a lot of problems with Lou, but the one thing I always admired was that he would do everything possible to try and put the best product on the ice (within reason of course) at all times. Some of you act like that is a bizarre concept.
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
11,854
35
New Jersey
The way I view things follows:

1) Has Shero done nothing? No. He's made coaching and front office changes (whether or not one agrees with any or all of them, they are concrete things that he has done). He's traded for Palmieri. He's signed and re-signed players. He's bought out players and cut strings with others like Gomez (and Bernier, too). I don't agree with all the things he's done, but he's certainly done them.

2) Has Shero done all that he could possibly do to improve this team? No, but I think he did try to do everything he could to improve it. He tried to get another pick in the first round and to acquire Saad. Part of his failure to achieve those things he attempted to do is simply that he has less resources in terms of traceable assets than GMs he was in competition with and the GMs he was looking to trade with obviously preferred other options. Shero has achieved some things that he set out to do, and not others. That's pretty typical of a GM or anyone in any competitive field like this, to be honest. Now, if he had honestly done nothing or hadn't been able to achieve any of the things he wanted to do to improve the team, that would be different, but since he's accomplished some things, I think we have to give him more than one off-season to see what he can build here in NJ.

3) Is Shero trying to build a "competitive" roster this year? Depends on what you mean by competitive. He's not trying to tank, since if he was Cory would probably have been traded by now. However, I think he's more concerned with the long-term future of this team (really trying to get the Devils back to being a steady playoff presence/contender as in the past) than in making short-term gains. He seems content to go with a young defense even if mistakes are made because he wants them to get experience, and he doesn't seem interested in signing older veterans like Gomez because he'd rather try to develop some young forwards in those slots. The Devils have gotten a lot younger. Whether this makes them better over time remains to be seen, and there certainly will be struggles next year, but there also might be some nice surprises to when youngsters get opportunities they might not with veterans around. No matter what, we weren't going to win the Cup this year, and Shero has most of a forward corps to refurbish. That wasn't going to happen in one off-season or with some veteran signings. It was going to mainly happen through drafting and development with maybe some shrewd trades to supplement.

Bottom line for me is that I don't agree with everything Shero has done so far, but he has done enough good things that I'm going to give him some time before judging too harshly and I'm not going to blame him too much for the state of a forward corps that he inherited. When he got it, it was probably the worst in the league (or close to it). The forward corps has a long way up to go before it even reaches mediocrity. That's really not on Shero.
 

SpeakingOfTheDevils

Devils Advocate
Jan 22, 2010
15,659
7,940
Philadelphia, PA
We all know about best laid plans...

I'm just a little surprised at many on here considering who our GM was. I had a lot of problems with Lou, but the one thing I always admired was that he would do everything possible to try and put the best product on the ice (within reason of course) at all times. Some of you act like that is a bizarre concept.

It is a bizarre concept when the two names thrown around as the answers to put out the 'best product on the ice' are Mike Santorelli and Kris frickin Versteeg.
 

217 Forever

Registered User
Sep 15, 2014
2,025
99
The way I view things follows:

1) Has Shero done nothing? No. He's made coaching and front office changes (whether or not one agrees with any or all of them, they are concrete things that he has done). He's traded for Palmieri. He's signed and re-signed players. He's bought out players and cut strings with others like Gomez (and Bernier, too). I don't agree with all the things he's done, but he's certainly done them.

2) Has Shero done all that he could possibly do to improve this team? No, but I think he did try to do everything he could to improve it. He tried to get another pick in the first round and to acquire Saad. Part of his failure to achieve those things he attempted to do is simply that he has less resources in terms of traceable assets than GMs he was in competition with and the GMs he was looking to trade with obviously preferred other options. Shero has achieved some things that he set out to do, and not others. That's pretty typical of a GM or anyone in any competitive field like this, to be honest. Now, if he had honestly done nothing or hadn't been able to achieve any of the things he wanted to do to improve the team, that would be different, but since he's accomplished some things, I think we have to give him more than one off-season to see what he can build here in NJ.

3) Is Shero trying to build a "competitive" roster this year? Depends on what you mean by competitive. He's not trying to tank, since if he was Cory would probably have been traded by now. However, I think he's more concerned with the long-term future of this team (really trying to get the Devils back to being a steady playoff presence/contender as in the past) than in making short-term gains. He seems content to go with a young defense even if mistakes are made because he wants them to get experience, and he doesn't seem interested in signing older veterans like Gomez because he'd rather try to develop some young forwards in those slots. The Devils have gotten a lot younger. Whether this makes them better over time remains to be seen, and there certainly will be struggles next year, but there also might be some nice surprises to when youngsters get opportunities they might not with veterans around. No matter what, we weren't going to win the Cup this year, and Shero has most of a forward corps to refurbish. That wasn't going to happen in one off-season or with some veteran signings. It was going to mainly happen through drafting and development with maybe some shrewd trades to supplement.

Bottom line for me is that I don't agree with everything Shero has done so far, but he has done enough good things that I'm going to give him some time before judging too harshly and I'm not going to blame him too much for the state of a forward corps that he inherited. When he got it, it was probably the worst in the league (or close to it). The forward corps has a long way up to go before it even reaches mediocrity. That's really not on Shero.

I always appreciate your posts FJG. They are well thought out and are never mean spirited with an "I'm right you're wrong" tone. Shero definitely walked into a tough spot. We all know that, myself included. I just hope this wait and see approach that he's taking bears fruit, and it doesn't end up just being a wasted season.
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
11,854
35
New Jersey
I always appreciate your posts FJG. They are well thought out and are never mean spirited with an "I'm right you're wrong" tone. Shero definitely walked into a tough spot. We all know that, myself included. I just hope this wait and see approach that he's taking bears fruit, and it doesn't end up just being a wasted season.

Thanks for the compliment about my posts:D I do try my best to make them logical and respectful. I appreciate your posts, too, because you aren't afraid to have your own opinions about things and to challenge the conventional viewpoint on here. Even if we don't agree on everything, it's good to have the civil discussions.

I agree that Shero definitely walked into a tough spot, and I think we're all hoping that the wait and see approach bears fruit (since it's not a guarantee, sadly, that it will). I'm also not unsympathetic to your perspective here, since I, for instance, would have preferred Gomez being brought back, and I would never support a tank or cheer for losses. I want to be good next season; I've just resigned myself to the probability that we're likely going to have our struggles next year. In the long run, we can only hope the struggles take us where we want to go.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
68,175
33,337
We all know about best laid plans...

I'm just a little surprised at many on here considering who our GM was. I had a lot of problems with Lou, but the one thing I always admired was that he would do everything possible to try and put the best product on the ice (within reason of course) at all times. Some of you act like that is a bizarre concept.

Thing is that was seen as a negative the last few years when you make win now signings and don't win. It was seen as Lou being in denial, mortgaging the future (which none of his moves really did), a waste of money and blocking younger players from playing.

So really it shouldn't be a surprise people are endorsing the 'long term' approach. And if it doesn't pan out and we wind up punting multiple years then people will want to go back to winning now at all costs. It's like going through a cycle of coaching philosophies, when you can a players coach you're more apt to hire a dictator.

fwiw I don't disagree with your general point, I never saw the be competitive at all costs approach as bad so long as there weren't mortgage the future moves, cause this team wasn't close enough to bring a contender the last few years to warrant that, nor did we have enough in the pipeline to really consider mortgaging more anyway.
 

R8Devs

1-5-6-12
Nov 20, 2010
21,147
4,600
New Jersey
Because Lou's short term approach couldn't even get them to make the playoffs in a league where 50% of the teams do.

Mortgaging the future is one thing--maybe Lou didn't really do that(2012 draft pick was a pretty bad decision tho) but he didn't really build a future either. Save me the building from the net out because legitimate top liners are needed and Lou left the Devils in a terrible position in that regard. You can't ignore one thing for another.
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
11,854
35
New Jersey
Thing is that was seen as a negative the last few years when you make win now signings and don't win. It was seen as Lou being in denial, mortgaging the future (which none of his moves really did), a waste of money and blocking younger players from playing.

So really it shouldn't be a surprise people are endorsing the 'long term' approach. And if it doesn't pan out and we wind up punting multiple years then people will want to go back to winning now at all costs. It's like going through a cycle of coaching philosophies, when you can a players coach you're more apt to hire a dictator.

fwiw I don't disagree with your general point, I never saw the be competitive at all costs approach as bad so long as there weren't mortgage the future moves, cause this team wasn't close enough to bring a contender the last few years to warrant that, nor did we have enough in the pipeline to really consider mortgaging more anyway.

This kind of hits the nail on the head in my opinion. Moderation is probably the best approach at this point. We do need to get better in the now since the Devils were objectively and painfully pathetic last year (so a move to improve the team now doesn't necessarily mean Shero has lost his mind and is making a wild bid for the Cup or even the playoffs, just possibly some offensive respectability/mediocrity), but we are definitely in no position to be making the type of trades NYR, for example, did to acquire Yandle.

We do need to try to get better now since losing a ton is probably not good for the development or psyche of our young players, but we also can't sacrifice important young assets because our best chance at another Cup is definitely in the future more than the present for older veterans who can only be really useful to us in the here and now. It's a tricky process. Hopefully Shero and his front office can execute it well.
 

217 Forever

Registered User
Sep 15, 2014
2,025
99
THIS, THIS, and oh by the way...



THIS.



I'm willing to punt this coming season so long as we see PROGRESS from our young players. This year will be all about DEVELOPMENT. :nod:

You guys are putting an awful lot of faith into a group of forward prospects generally considered to be among the worst in the NHL.
 

MichaelJ

Registered User
May 20, 2013
7,874
766
You guys are putting an awful lot of faith into a group of forward prospects generally considered to be among the worst in the NHL.

The team will likely suck this year. If we add a couple of veterans, we'll wind up picking 12th instead of 5th. It's not worth it. Let some of the younger players play...no one is expecting them to blossom into top6 forwards. But, some could use the development time to grow into the depth players we need and others might actually increase their trade value. If we add a couple of vets, we're looking at Ryder/Havlat BS that even if they work out don't get us very far.
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
11,854
35
New Jersey
I don't think getting better in 2015-16 is as important as getting better over the next 3+ years.

Yes, but I don't think that the two should be seen as mutually exclusive, which some people seem to be advocating. It is possible (though very difficult) to improve a team in the present and in the future. Trying to not be a bottom five team in the league doesn't equal making a desperate bid for the Cup or even the playoffs. it just means not wanting to be basically abject failures. Too much losing could breed a culture we don't want and stunt development. That's worth keeping in mind in my opinion.
 

MichaelJ

Registered User
May 20, 2013
7,874
766
we have no 3rd rounder. theres no offer sheet for Huberdeau that makes sense

I couldn't see giving up all of those picks for Huberdeau next year anyway, a trade would've been better for the Devils if they had the pieces. I'd like to see the team keep stocking up on young talent next draft and THEN go for an OS on someone like Filip Forsberg next summer.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
72,705
46,565
PA
You guys are putting an awful lot of faith into a group of forward prospects generally considered to be among the worst in the NHL.

so you are going off the assumption that we will add no young/promising forwards whatsoever to the roster between now and 3 years from now?
 

MichaelJ

Registered User
May 20, 2013
7,874
766
Yes, but I don't think that the two should be seen as mutually exclusive, which some people seem to be advocating. It is possible (though very difficult) to improve a team in the present and in the future. Trying to not be a bottom five team in the league doesn't equal making a desperate bid for the Cup or even the playoffs. it just means not wanting to be basically abject failures. Too much losing could breed a culture we don't want and stunt development. That's worth keeping in mind in my opinion.

I've always thought this losing culture argument is overblown. Winning, talented players breed a winning culture not the other way around. If you look at other turnarounds in sports, a lot of the young talent that makes up the next winning core(s) have had to come up in adverse circumstances and they were not damaged by the losing seasons.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
68,175
33,337
You guys are putting an awful lot of faith into a group of forward prospects generally considered to be among the worst in the NHL.

It's not even so much about having faith in them, it's more about the new regime finding out exactly what they have and where they need to improve. But at some point they have to find out once and for all what they have in a Boucher, Matteau and even Josefson and how far away guys like Quenneville and Blandisi (among others) are. Then they can act accordingly. That's why I think you're not seeing PTO's up the wazoo like Lou's last couple of years or patch signings. They want to give what's in their system the bulk of their attention to evaluate them better.
 
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