Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

[NjDevsRR]

Nemec looking like Cillan Murphy in the first 5 seconds

 

[Billdo]

I'm sure when the defensive issues aren't magically gone with the arrival of Hughes and Pesce this board will remain rational and calm.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I'm actually surprised at the level of thoughtfulness on both the optimism and pessimism side right now. It doesn't seem like a flame war. I think there is validity to both viewpoints. There is reason to believe they can turn it around, but enough very recent history to be reason for legitimate concern.

I think both sides are bringing up valid points and this board does a pretty damn good job not to get into their feels when discussing stuff from what I've seen. I've seen other subs turn into all out flame wars lol

 

[Hisch13r]

Praise the lawd!


I think Nemec will improve, but he's not there yet. AHL time will help him get better.

Kovacevic isn't an elite defenseman but he is a solid #4/5 IMO. Nemec isn't there at the moment.

Kovy isn’t an elite Dman but he’s played pretty damn elite hockey to start the year. You ride him while he’s hot. You don’t rotate him with the guy who has flat out been bad so far.

 

[Hisch13r]

You do rotate if you're serious about developing a guy who will increase the potential for this team more than Kovacevic will. Not to say Nemec has to play every game over Kovacevic (or they can run 11-7) but its something that'll be beneficial in the long run. Also they have 4 games in 6 nights and they have a pretty condensed schedule coming up until Nov 16 so a d rotation to keep guys fresh would probably be beneficial.

Also it hasn't been the easiest ride for Nemec either so some grace should be given - 20 year old in his 2nd NHL season and under his 3rd NHL head coach already and started off the season paired with a right handed rookie defenseman.

There's also another option to keep both Kovacevic and Nemec in the lineup if Pesce could get up to speed quick and they're okay with trying a R-R pairing again with Hamilton: (either running 11-7 or taking Dillon out of the lineup):

Pesce-Hamilton
Siegenthaler-Kovacevic
Hughes-Nemec
Dillon


But all this is going to be moot when someone else gets injured knowing how it goes lol

You do not rotate arguably the best D for the guy who has been the worst D. That’s not f***ing serious. You wait for Kovacevic’s game to inevitably fall back down before rotating him with the guy who has not been good at all yet.

 

[Guttersniped]

well going by last year off the top of my head the rangers predators caps all new coaches all great seasons

They didn’t all start out great out of the gate.

Also none of the coaches got wildly different results than previous seasons, Carbery had the biggest turn around in terms of points.

Not to say that points say everything.

Burnette certainly made the Preds more offensively dynamic (at during last season lol).

The Rags were very dependent on special teams & goaltending under Gallant and Laviolette has (unfortunately) improved the Rags overall game quite a bit.


Preds’ 23-24 Start (10/10/23-11/14/23)
Note: GD -8

Rest of the season: GD +29

Spoiler: Nashville’s last 3 Seasons

21-22 (w/ Hynes)
45-30-7/ 5th in Central
97 points/ 1st Rd loss to COL (0-4)

22-23 (w/ Hynes)
42-32-8/ 5th in Central
92 points/ missed playoffs

23-24 (w/ Brunnette)
47-30-5/4th in Central
99 points/ 1st Rd loss to VAN (2-4)

The Caps 23-24 meh start was shorter as they had a 5 game win streak in mid-November. That streak was helped by a soft portion of Caps’ schedule that started with *sob* us.

Cap’s 23-24 start
10/13/23-11/8/23: GD -10

Rest of the season: GD -27 lol

Spoiler: Washington’s last 3 seasons

Last 3 seasons for WSH:
21-22 (w/ Laviolette)
44-26-12/ 4th in Metro
100 points/ 1st Rd loss to FLA (2-4)

22-23 (w/ Laviolette)
35-37-10/ 6th in Metro
80 points/ missed playoffs

23-24 (w/ Carbery)
40-31-11/ 4th in Metro
91 points/ 1st Rd loss to NYR (0-4)

The Rangers had a great start but teams that win the Presidents Trophy tend to win a lot all year.*

They were helped by their special teams as usual. (And Quick’s weirdly great start helped.)

10/12/24- 12/3/24: +21

Then they improved 5v5 as the year went on.
GD: +33

Spoiler: NY Rag’s last 3 seasons

21-22 (w/ Gallant)
52-24-6 / 2nd in Metro
110 points/ ECF loss to TBL (2-4)

22-23 (w/ Gallant)
47-22-13/ 3rd in Metro
107 points/ 1st Rd loss to NJD (3-4)

23-24 (w/ Laviolette)
56-23-4/ President’s Trophy
114 points/ ECF loss to FLA (2-4)

*For no particular reason, I will point out that 114 points is a little low for a Presidents Trophy winner.

Spoiler: Past Pres Trophy winners w/ same or less pts

*82 GP & Loser Point Era only*

23-24 NY Rags 56-23-4 114 pts
22-23 BOS 135 pts
22-21 FLA 122 pts
*
*
18-19 TBL 128 pts
17-18 NSH 117 pts
16-17 WSH 118 pts
15-16 WSH 120 pts
**Note: 15-16 OT goes 3v3**
14-15 NY Rags 53-22-7 113 pts
13-14 BOS 117 pts
*
11-12 Vancouver 51-22-9 111 pts
10-11 VAN 117 pts
09-10 WSH 121 pts
08-09 SJS 117 pts
07-08 DET 115 pts
06-07 Buffalo 53-22-7 113 pts
05-06 DET 124 pts
** Note: 05-06 End of ties as SO start**
03-04 Detroit 48-21-11-2 109 pts
02-03 Ottawa 52-21-8-1 113 pts
01-02 DET 116 pts
00-01 COL 118 pts
99-00 St Louis 51-19-11-1 114 pts
**Note: 99-00 Start of the OT loser point**

 

[Xirik]

I need to see Nemec without casey as his partner for a bit longer before throwing any shade.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Absolutely No One:

@Guttersniped :

 

[Guadana]

They didn’t all start out great out of the gate.

Also none of the coaches got wildly different results than previous seasons, Carbery had the biggest turn around in terms of points.

Not to say that points say everything.

Burnette certainly made the Preds more offensively dynamic (at during last season lol).

The Rags were very dependent on special teams & goaltending under Gallant and Laviolette has (unfortunately) improved the Rags overall game quite a bit.


Preds’ 23-24 Start (10/10/23-11/14/23)
Note: GD -8
View attachment 920886
Rest of the season: GD +29
View attachment 920890

Spoiler: Nashville’s last 3 Seasons

21-22 (w/ Hynes)
45-30-7/ 5th in Central
97 points/ 1st Rd loss to COL (0-4)

22-23 (w/ Hynes)
42-32-8/ 5th in Central
92 points/ missed playoffs

23-24 (w/ Brunnette)
47-30-5/4th in Central
99 points/ 1st Rd loss to VAN (2-4)

The Caps 23-24 meh start was shorter as they had a 5 game win streak in mid-November. That streak was helped by a soft portion of Caps’ schedule that started with *sob* us.

Cap’s 23-24 start
10/13/23-11/8/23: GD -10
View attachment 920903
Rest of the season: GD -27 lol
View attachment 920906

Spoiler: Washington’s last 3 seasons

Last 3 seasons for WSH:
21-22 (w/ Laviolette)
44-26-12/ 4th in Metro
100 points/ 1st Rd loss to FLA (2-4)

22-23 (w/ Laviolette)
35-37-10/ 6th in Metro
80 points/ missed playoffs

23-24 (w/ Carbery)
40-31-11/ 4th in Metro
91 points/ 1st Rd loss to NYR (0-4)

The Rangers had a great start but teams that win the Presidents Trophy tend to win a lot all year.*

They were helped by their special teams as usual. (And Quick’s weirdly great start helped.)

10/12/24- 12/3/24: +21View attachment 920910

Then they improved 5v5 as the year went on.
GD: +33
View attachment 920913

Spoiler: NY Rag’s last 3 seasons

21-22 (w/ Gallant)
52-24-6 / 2nd in Metro
110 points/ ECF loss to TBL (2-4)

22-23 (w/ Gallant)
47-22-13/ 3rd in Metro
107 points/ 1st Rd loss to NJD (3-4)

23-24 (w/ Laviolette)
56-23-4/ President’s Trophy
114 points/ ECF loss to FLA (2-4)

*For no particular reason, I will point out that 114 points is a little low for a Presidents Trophy winner.

Spoiler: Past Pres Trophy winners w/ same or less pts

*82 GP & Loser Point Era only*

23-24 NY Rags 56-23-4 114 pts
22-23 BOS 135 pts
22-21 FLA 122 pts
*
*
18-19 TBL 128 pts
17-18 NSH 117 pts
16-17 WSH 118 pts
15-16 WSH 120 pts
**Note: 15-16 OT goes 3v3**
14-15 NY Rags 53-22-7 113 pts
13-14 BOS 117 pts
*
11-12 Vancouver 51-22-9 111 pts
10-11 VAN 117 pts
09-10 WSH 121 pts
08-09 SJS 117 pts
07-08 DET 115 pts
06-07 Buffalo 53-22-7 113 pts
05-06 DET 124 pts
** Note: 05-06 End of ties as SO start**
03-04 Detroit 48-21-11-2 109 pts
02-03 Ottawa 52-21-8-1 113 pts
01-02 DET 116 pts
00-01 COL 118 pts
99-00 St Louis 51-19-11-1 114 pts
**Note: 99-00 Start of the OT loser point**

Im happy to see you are making your stuff. Great avatar btw

 

[dgibb10]

You take Kovacevic's start as a great bonus but you don't design the roster keeping that in mind.

Long term:

Luke-Pesce
Siegs-Hamilton
Dillon-Nemec

Or if you have some real balls play Luke and Nemec together.

They played 175 minutes together last year. In that time NJD outscored the opponents 9-4, and were 11-7 on xGoals share.

 

[Deviled]

I also like the play of Kovacevic and think he brings an element this team needs.. but I cant have us toying around with Nemec's development

Not sure how to handle that but, either way, he needs consistent playing time... maybe send him down for 20+ATOI in Utica? Almost seems better than bottom pair minutes and splitting games with Kovacevic

 

[JrFischer54]

They didn’t all start out great out of the gate.

Also none of the coaches got wildly different results than previous seasons, Carbery had the biggest turn around in terms of points.

Not to say that points say everything.

Burnette certainly made the Preds more offensively dynamic (at during last season lol).

The Rags were very dependent on special teams & goaltending under Gallant and Laviolette has (unfortunately) improved the Rags overall game quite a bit.


Preds’ 23-24 Start (10/10/23-11/14/23)
Note: GD -8
View attachment 920886
Rest of the season: GD +29
View attachment 920890

Spoiler: Nashville’s last 3 Seasons

21-22 (w/ Hynes)
45-30-7/ 5th in Central
97 points/ 1st Rd loss to COL (0-4)

22-23 (w/ Hynes)
42-32-8/ 5th in Central
92 points/ missed playoffs

23-24 (w/ Brunnette)
47-30-5/4th in Central
99 points/ 1st Rd loss to VAN (2-4)

The Caps 23-24 meh start was shorter as they had a 5 game win streak in mid-November. That streak was helped by a soft portion of Caps’ schedule that started with *sob* us.

Cap’s 23-24 start
10/13/23-11/8/23: GD -10
View attachment 920903
Rest of the season: GD -27 lol
View attachment 920906

Spoiler: Washington’s last 3 seasons

Last 3 seasons for WSH:
21-22 (w/ Laviolette)
44-26-12/ 4th in Metro
100 points/ 1st Rd loss to FLA (2-4)

22-23 (w/ Laviolette)
35-37-10/ 6th in Metro
80 points/ missed playoffs

23-24 (w/ Carbery)
40-31-11/ 4th in Metro
91 points/ 1st Rd loss to NYR (0-4)

The Rangers had a great start but teams that win the Presidents Trophy tend to win a lot all year.*

They were helped by their special teams as usual. (And Quick’s weirdly great start helped.)

10/12/24- 12/3/24: +21View attachment 920910

Then they improved 5v5 as the year went on.
GD: +33
View attachment 920913

Spoiler: NY Rag’s last 3 seasons

21-22 (w/ Gallant)
52-24-6 / 2nd in Metro
110 points/ ECF loss to TBL (2-4)

22-23 (w/ Gallant)
47-22-13/ 3rd in Metro
107 points/ 1st Rd loss to NJD (3-4)

23-24 (w/ Laviolette)
56-23-4/ President’s Trophy
114 points/ ECF loss to FLA (2-4)

*For no particular reason, I will point out that 114 points is a little low for a Presidents Trophy winner.

Spoiler: Past Pres Trophy winners w/ same or less pts

*82 GP & Loser Point Era only*

23-24 NY Rags 56-23-4 114 pts
22-23 BOS 135 pts
22-21 FLA 122 pts
*
*
18-19 TBL 128 pts
17-18 NSH 117 pts
16-17 WSH 118 pts
15-16 WSH 120 pts
**Note: 15-16 OT goes 3v3**
14-15 NY Rags 53-22-7 113 pts
13-14 BOS 117 pts
*
11-12 Vancouver 51-22-9 111 pts
10-11 VAN 117 pts
09-10 WSH 121 pts
08-09 SJS 117 pts
07-08 DET 115 pts
06-07 Buffalo 53-22-7 113 pts
05-06 DET 124 pts
** Note: 05-06 End of ties as SO start**
03-04 Detroit 48-21-11-2 109 pts
02-03 Ottawa 52-21-8-1 113 pts
01-02 DET 116 pts
00-01 COL 118 pts
99-00 St Louis 51-19-11-1 114 pts
**Note: 99-00 Start of the OT loser point**

listen i'll take your word for it since I hadn't watched a single game of any of those teams. thats great though so there is hope that sheldon can get these guys to compete and try harder and not to give up if you give up two goals. so far that hasn't been the case i can only judge what they have shown.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I'm sure when the defensive issues aren't magically gone with the arrival of Hughes and Pesce this board will remain rational and calm.

My response to this will be similar to what @Devs3cups posted somewhere. If we can't discredit wins against bad teams, why are people using good teams to prop up this team.

Similarly, a lot of people are claiming this team's issues are magnified by the loss of Hughes and Pesce. I think people have every right to be pissed still if they don't "fix" it with the logic some people have in here.

I personally don't think it has anything to do with them. The team is just not playing well as a whole.

 

[My3Sons]

You take Kovacevic's start as a great bonus but you don't design the roster keeping that in mind.

Long term:

Luke-Pesce
Siegs-Hamilton
Dillon-Nemec

Or if you have some real balls play Luke and Nemec together.

They played 175 minutes together last year. In that time NJD outscored the opponents 9-4, and were 11-7 on xGoals share.

See I think you have it backwards. If the defense is set up like this:

Kovacevic Kovacevic
Kovecevic Kovacevic
Kovscevik Lovejoy

Then you can trade all thr other defenders for better forwards. You will be able to upgrade the third line and finally dump Hischier or at least push him down to the fourth line. You can maybe combine Nemec with Luke and finally land Anderson from Montreal. Finally I bet Misyul and Casey would return a nice forward prospect. You just have to think creatively.

 

[NjDevsRR]

If we can't discredit wins against bad teams, why are people using good teams to prop up this team.

To counter the early doomerism because in reality we should all be neutral in this moment and just give it another month due to this team having a new coach and some new players, with some key players not even have played a game yet, only twenty days into the season.

I will say it again. Let’s all pull on the reins a bit. Thats all I am advocating. Team could be legitimately ass or legitimately good, but it doesn’t matter. It’s way too early to doom/bloom this severely this early on.

 

[Devs3cups]

To counter the early doomerism because in reality we should all be neutral in this moment and just give it another month due to this team having a new coach and some new players, with some key players not even have played a game yet, only twenty days into the season.

I will say it again. Let’s all pull on the reins a bit.

I've mostly been an optimist in regards to this team for a long time, and I'll keep on being so. I don't see how critiquing bad hockey is doomerism. They're playing bad hockey overall. It is what it is. Is that set in stone? Absolutely not. They certainly have the tools.

Hopefully it changes tonight, with a convincing win on the road!

 

[NjDevsRR]

I've been an over the top optimist in regards to this team for a long time, and I'll keep on being so. I don't see how critiquing bad hockey is doomerism. They're playing bad hockey overall. It is what it is. Is that set in stone? Absolutely not. They certainly have the tools.

Hopefully it changes tonight, with a convincing win on the road!

Well thats it, right there. From over optimism to then bringing up late Lou teams that had Zubrus and Clowe on them in your posts about current futility as if thats a continuation of the same thing. Love you, but no haha. Its been extreme optimism or extreme doomerism, moderation is all I am advocating for. You have the right to do both but damn it hurts to see people so down in the gutter twenty days into the season, given all of the context going on. I feel like thats where me and @Better Call Sal are just saying. Like damn, lets give it a bit more time lmao.

Off to my volleyball tournament. So I hope they play well. LGD

 

[Devs3cups]

Well thats it, right there. From over optimism to then bringing up late Lou teams that had Zubrus and Clowe on them in your posts about current futility as if thats a continuation of the same thing. Love you, but no haha. Its been extreme optimism or extreme doomerism, moderation is all I am advocating for. You have the right to do both but damn it hurts to see people so down in the gutter twenty days into the season, given all of the context going on. I feel like thats where me and @Better Call Sal are just saying. Like damn, lets give it a bit more time lmao.

Off to my volleyball tournament. So I hope they play well. LGD

While I understand the sentiment, I've said continuously in my posts these last few days that the team can definitely improve. I'm not here saying that they won't make the playoffs or they won't get better, cause that's not what I believe. That's the hardest part, I believe in them and this roster. I said over the top, but I meant it in the sense that I'm overwhelmingly an optimist when it comes to this group, but I like to think I can critique this team when it's deserved.

But I can't get behind the way they're playing right now. I just can't, and that's fine. Hopefully it changes, and it probably will with time. 2 straight losses giving up 6+ goals at home got to me. That shouldn't happen anymore with this core, new system and injuries be damned. Playing simple hockey shouldn't be this hard. They should also be held to a higher standard at this point.

Thankfully, I'm feeling a strong game tonight!

 

[Emperoreddy]

The only connective tissue this year's team has with past teams is last years and the year before. One really good season and one injury riddled really bad season.

And even that is pretty loose as a bunch of faces have been changed out including the entire coaching staff.

There is next to no connective tissue with Shero's failures and even less with late Lou failures.

Having strong negative feelings about the franchise for past failures doesn't change the indisputable fact this this current season's team can only really be judged on its own merits with how it plays this year.

And we simply do not have a large enough sample size to make any kind of conclusive judgements on this current team yet and that includes a result tonight in either direction.

This team is TBD until probably December.

The past two games are equally dismissiveable as statistical noise as the first two games in Prague.

 

[Devs3cups]

The only connective tissue this year's team has with past teams is last years and the year before. One really good season and one injury riddled really bad season.

And even that is pretty loose as a bunch of faces have been changed out including the entire coaching staff.

There is next to no connective tissue with Shero's failures and even less with late Lou failures.

Having strong negative feelings about the franchise for past failures doesn't change the indisputable fact this this current season's team can only really be judged on its own merits with how it plays this year.

And we simply do not have a large enough sample size to make any kind of conclusive judgements on this current team yet and that includes a result tonight in either direction.

This team is TBD until probably December.

The past two games are equally dismissiveable as statistical noise as the first two games in Prague.

This is all fair.

 

[Hisch13r]

While I understand the sentiment, I've said continuously in my posts these last few days that the team can definitely improve. I'm not here saying that they won't make the playoffs or they won't get better, cause that's not what I believe. That's the hardest part, I believe in them and this roster. I said over the top, but I meant it in the sense that I'm overwhelmingly an optimist when it comes to this group, but I like to think I can critique this team when it's deserved.

But I can't get behind the way they're playing right now. I just can't, and that's fine. Hopefully it changes, and it probably will with time. 2 straight losses giving up 6+ goals at home got to me. That shouldn't happen anymore with this core, new system and injuries be damned. Playing simple hockey shouldn't be this hard. They should also be held to a higher standard at this point.

Thankfully, I'm feeling a strong game tonight!

2 straight games giving up 6+ shouldn’t happen regardless of where the games were played against any teams. It also shouldn’t happen to any team even the worst team in the league let alone a team with Cup aspirations

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I think Nemec will improve, but he's not there yet. AHL time will help him get better.

Kovacevic isn't an elite defenseman but he is a solid #4/5 IMO. Nemec isn't there at the moment.

First and most important thing I’ll say here is that I don’t think for a second the AHL would help Nemec improve what he needs to improve.

And he was more than good enough last year and has been good enough recently. Nemec was better than Kovacevic last year. Kovacevic was never a solid 4/5 to anyone or expected to play over Nemec by anyone on here 3 weeks ago.
That’s half my point here. Your entire opinion of a player shouldn’t change from 5-6 games of good play. That’s far too reactionary. He’s played better than anyone expected to start but his play has already started to drop (with the rest of the team) and he isn’t unsittable down the stretch of the season. There should and probably will be some rotation and it makes all the sense in the world that Nemec will rotate in for him at some point while he tries to find his best game again.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Kovy isn’t an elite Dman but he’s played pretty damn elite hockey to start the year. You ride him while he’s hot. You don’t rotate him with the guy who has flat out been bad so far.

He’s cooling off al ready and it’s not reasonable to expect him the play as well throughout the season as he started (although possible). He’s a perfectly rotatable player at some point. And Nemec’s game has been much better recently and he was a better player than Kovacevic last season.

You ride the hot players but don’t entirely change plans or opinions off of a small stretch of games. That’s incredibly stupid.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I also like the play of Kovacevic and think he brings an element this team needs.. but I cant have us toying around with Nemec's development

Not sure how to handle that but, either way, he needs consistent playing time... maybe send him down for 20+ATOI in Utica? Almost seems better than bottom pair minutes and splitting games with Kovacevic

As I’ve said many times here I strongly disagree with sending him to the AHL. I think sticking around and playing 12 minutes every third game is more beneficial than going back to the AHL.

The things he needs to work on won’t get better playing more minutes in the AHL.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

You do not rotate arguably the best D for the guy who has been the worst D. That’s not f***ing serious. You wait for Kovacevic’s game to inevitably fall back down before rotating him with the guy who has not been good at all yet.

lol he’s not the best D though and it’s ridiculous to say so. He’s arguably been one of the best so far. But a small stretch of games doesn’t make a guy most saw as the 7th D arguably our best D.

and the fall down has already started. Nobody is saying to rotate him right now. But assuming he doesn’t play as a better player than he’s ever been going forward it’s perfectly reasonable to rotate him at some point. As much as you don’t and haven’t liked Nemec since before the draft.