Sure if you have an open net thanks to a cross ice pass on the PP you're not looking to pick a corner. But when the goalie is square on you, you often look to pick a corner.
Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXIV
- Thread starter NJDevs26
- Start date
- Status
I'm too dumb to know how to embed pics. Someone help me out. This is the biggest NJ conspiracy since that Lindbergh kid got snatched.
Tao Jersey Jones
Registered User
Poppy Whoa Sonnet
J'Accuse!
- Jan 24, 2007
- 7,611
- 8,271
Tao Jersey Jones
Registered User
Captain3rdLine
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2020
- 7,616
- 8,857
Surely this means he’ll stay in the lineup. I hope so.
If Pittsburgh struggles and is an early exit from the playoffs, would we entertain Mike Sullivan?
Ive always thought hes a good coach. Only one losing season.
Ive always thought hes a good coach. Only one losing season.
McDuffz88
Smoke the Keefe
- Sep 18, 2019
- 1,626
- 2,233
I really think the writing is on the wall for Smith both Okhotyuk and Bahl are better then Smith at this point.
Captain3rdLine
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2020
- 7,616
- 8,857
Small sample size but it’s possible. They also seem like much better fits for what we need and are trying to do as well.
SKNJD9
Hi, I'm mat.
Captain3rdLine
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2020
- 7,616
- 8,857
If Bahl and Okhotiuk keep things up and finish the final 5 games strong and we feel they could be regulars next season. I think we could/should be open to trading one of Smith or Graves this off-season. There’s obviously positives and negatives to trading both and a little risk to it if 1 or both of Bahl and Okhotiuk don’t show well next season. But they’re both young, have shown well and I think should be able to be full time NHLers.
Graves is 27 and going into the last year of his deal. He started pretty well and has decent production but has been just meh IMO for a while and not really good enough for stretches. He’s been much better than Smith and trading him would be a bit risky and possibly leave us exposed with no real established veteran D after Siegenthaler. But unless he can bounce back he hasn’t really played like a top 4 dman for quite a while now. Bahl has been better than him IMO since being called up. And he doesn’t really seem like a long term part of this team especially with all our LD prospects and we’ll likely lose him in a year. This is probably very unlikely.
Smith on the other hand hasn’t been close to good enough this season and is the same age and draft year as Bahl who has outperformed him. Okhotiuk is a little bit younger and drafted a year later.
Smith also doesn’t really seem to fit into this team as a small offensive powerplay running defensmen. We already seem to be set in terms of defensemen who can run the powerplay now and for the foreseeable future and Smith as a small defensively poor player doesn’t really fit what Fitz wants in his dmen.
On the other hand Smith is a talented defensemen who was a really good prospect and has shown some nice flashes since coming into the league. He is also young and under team control for quite a while.
Honestly I’d say we should either trade Smith if there is a decent offer or be willing to send him down to Utica if Bahl and/or Okhotiuk outperform him in camp and beyond. I don’t know if they’d be willing to do that or not.
With Graves his play hasn’t been good enough for a decent bit of this season and my concern is that even if he isn’t performing next season they may not be willing to take him out of the lineup for young defensemen who are performing better unless he’s atrociously bad. Trading him would be much riskier though which is partly why it’s unlikely.
This would only be a good option if management strongly felt that 1 or both of the young dmen could take his place and do well in the top 4.
Graves is 27 and going into the last year of his deal. He started pretty well and has decent production but has been just meh IMO for a while and not really good enough for stretches. He’s been much better than Smith and trading him would be a bit risky and possibly leave us exposed with no real established veteran D after Siegenthaler. But unless he can bounce back he hasn’t really played like a top 4 dman for quite a while now. Bahl has been better than him IMO since being called up. And he doesn’t really seem like a long term part of this team especially with all our LD prospects and we’ll likely lose him in a year. This is probably very unlikely.
Smith on the other hand hasn’t been close to good enough this season and is the same age and draft year as Bahl who has outperformed him. Okhotiuk is a little bit younger and drafted a year later.
Smith also doesn’t really seem to fit into this team as a small offensive powerplay running defensmen. We already seem to be set in terms of defensemen who can run the powerplay now and for the foreseeable future and Smith as a small defensively poor player doesn’t really fit what Fitz wants in his dmen.
On the other hand Smith is a talented defensemen who was a really good prospect and has shown some nice flashes since coming into the league. He is also young and under team control for quite a while.
Honestly I’d say we should either trade Smith if there is a decent offer or be willing to send him down to Utica if Bahl and/or Okhotiuk outperform him in camp and beyond. I don’t know if they’d be willing to do that or not.
With Graves his play hasn’t been good enough for a decent bit of this season and my concern is that even if he isn’t performing next season they may not be willing to take him out of the lineup for young defensemen who are performing better unless he’s atrociously bad. Trading him would be much riskier though which is partly why it’s unlikely.
This would only be a good option if management strongly felt that 1 or both of the young dmen could take his place and do well in the top 4.
- Oct 22, 2002
- 9,590
- 4,250
I think it would be foolish to trade Smith without giving him a 3rd season as a Devil.
Even Will Butcher got 4 seasons to prove himself.
Graves I'll keep to start the season but he could we gone come trade deadline next season. That's when we may look at Okhotyuk to replace him long term. It wouldn't hurt Okhotyuk to spend another season in AHL next year.
Defenseman for next season should start as follows:
Graves-Hamilton
Sigenthaler-Severson
Smith- Free Agent/Trade
Bahl-Walsh
I'll have Bahl as the 7th dman that will be full time with Devils next season and Walsh as the 8th dman to start in AHL but taxi into NHL when there is injuries.
We should get a RHD as a trade/signing to partner Smith. Someone like Josh Manson could be good and he's talented enough to play 2nd pairing if the team elects to not re-sign Severson.
A trade option is viable as well if we use one of our surplus winger such as Zacha/Kuokkanen/Johnsson to swap for a RHD.
Even Will Butcher got 4 seasons to prove himself.
Graves I'll keep to start the season but he could we gone come trade deadline next season. That's when we may look at Okhotyuk to replace him long term. It wouldn't hurt Okhotyuk to spend another season in AHL next year.
Defenseman for next season should start as follows:
Graves-Hamilton
Sigenthaler-Severson
Smith- Free Agent/Trade
Bahl-Walsh
I'll have Bahl as the 7th dman that will be full time with Devils next season and Walsh as the 8th dman to start in AHL but taxi into NHL when there is injuries.
We should get a RHD as a trade/signing to partner Smith. Someone like Josh Manson could be good and he's talented enough to play 2nd pairing if the team elects to not re-sign Severson.
A trade option is viable as well if we use one of our surplus winger such as Zacha/Kuokkanen/Johnsson to swap for a RHD.
Lou Bloom
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2020
- 1,046
- 1,998
If Bahl and Okhotyuk finish the season strong I'd definitely be looking to trade Graves in the offseason and roll with the youth. Graves has been playing some pretty poor hockey for a while now and I'm sure some team will look at his size and scoring and give you something decent back for him.
njdevils1982
Hell Toupée!!!
Captain3rdLine
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2020
- 7,616
- 8,857
Yeah it’s a little risky but if we’re confident in Okhotiuk and Bahl it may not be a bad idea to let those two and Smith battle it out for the the two LD spots behind Siegenthaler. And then bring in a solid veteran RD and maybe another fill D for injuries.
I don’t think it’s that likely though because Fitz just got him last offseason, I think they like him, and they won’t want to go in to the season with Siegenthaler and then 3 unproven 22 year olds as their LD’s. It’s just risky and could be a recipe for disaster if those young D struggle. I wouldn’t mind it though because Bahl has shown well, I like Okhotiuk and am confident in him and Graves hasn’t been good enough lately.
Smith getting traded is more likely and wouldn’t be a terrible idea.
I could see it. He was rumored to be on the hot seat a few seasons ago (but covid derailed that)
A 1st round exit though could be a big force on that. One can only hope (if you like him)
Of course, but that is not the case in most scoring chances. First you have to hit the net, follow your shot, dig rebounds, get tips, use screens, and utilize your line mates. Most missed nets to the far side, which is the most common "corner" missed, lead to the opponent breaking out. Your Offense becomes 1 and done. The most common offensive thrust of Utica.
Extended pressure in the offensive zone, moving the puck around, shooting and recovering, and going some more is not their thing. They prefer to watch that kind of offense in their own zone for entire shifts at a time. I've watched a lot of NJ and they seem to thrive on the same system.
No one said it had to be the #4 OA. How about the #29 OA pick. Still a 1st round selection. Tarasenko instead of Chase Stillman and throw in a Zetterlund or Foote, along with Walsh or Vukojevic. Who knows who they would have settled for, especially since Fitz was willing to accept his full contract.
A 1st line RW who puts up 79Pts/71GP is better than anything NJ has in house. Add Bratt, Mercer, Sharangovich and now maybe Holtz to Nico and Jack. How can you downplay that top 6? Then in the 2021-22 offseason Fitz looks to pick up another couple of UFAs. 1 better than Johnsson and a #3 center unless you are satisfied with Boqvist. You have decent 4th line people. In which case that 6th D-man they are missing could be hunted down.
In all truth we don't know for a fact what the Blues would have settled for. All the skinny out there could easily have been Blues smoke screens. I still believe that nobody wanted to chance giving up anything if they couldn't be sure he would be healthy. It was a risk. No one was willing to take it. In hind sight it looks like anyone who would have felt it was worth the risk would have been soundly rewarded.
Captain3rdLine
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2020
- 7,616
- 8,857
Ideal 2022-23 Lineup
Sharangovich Hughes Mercer
Bratt Hischier Holtz
Tatar Boqvist (New top 6 W)
Wood Mcleod Bastian
Kuokkonen Thompson Zetterlund
Graves Hamilton
Siegenthaler Severson
Okhotiuk/Bahl (New 3rd pair RD)
Okhotiuk/Bahl (New depth fill in D)
(NewGoalie)
Blackwood
Daws
Out:
Zacha
Johnsson
Vesey
Subban
Smith
White
Hammond
Gilles
In:
Top 6 Winger
3rd pair RD
Fill in depth defensmen
Capable Starting Goalie
Sharangovich Hughes Mercer
Bratt Hischier Holtz
Tatar Boqvist (New top 6 W)
Wood Mcleod Bastian
Kuokkonen Thompson Zetterlund
Graves Hamilton
Siegenthaler Severson
Okhotiuk/Bahl (New 3rd pair RD)
Okhotiuk/Bahl (New depth fill in D)
(NewGoalie)
Blackwood
Daws
Out:
Zacha
Johnsson
Vesey
Subban
Smith
White
Hammond
Gilles
In:
Top 6 Winger
3rd pair RD
Fill in depth defensmen
Capable Starting Goalie
MachoDiablo
Registered User
He's more than meets the eye, Randall!
....maybe?
Meantime, I wouldn't be in such a massive hurry to run Smith out of town on a rail. Not to say I'll shed tears if he's not around next season, but we seem to be pretty quick on the draw around here to declare guys busts after basically a season or two. We've got way too many babies on the team to just assume they're finished products and that no adjustments could be made.
Again, not to say I'm against him being on the way out; Devils have some interesting blue line prospects either getting their cup of coffee in the big time right now or who are on their way up in the next year or so, and wanting to make guaranteed space for them makes perfect sense, especially if the Devils are making good use of their internal scouting and metrics to make the call on who gets to stay and who goes. I'd just rather pump the breaks on dumping guys when they're still so young and could potentially make changes to improve at this stage of their careers, especially when doing so means getting rid of them when they have pretty minimal value; I'd rather deal a guy like Smith in a trade that makes sense than just dangle him out there and take a bag of pucks in return.
Interesting call on entertaining offers for Graves, though. I have to think the odds are against them doing that, but he's someone who could bring back a pretty decent return while freeing up space for the young guys. I have to think the Devils would rather him stick around to provide some stability as the young guys get more integrated into the defensive system, but if the right proposal comes along I'm not against hearing someone out.
Guadana
Registered User
Ofcourse this was overrating from my side, but still. I had(and have now) my own different conditions. And Nikita`s first game is lookin better than Holtz. Do I think Holtz has better ceiling - ofcourse. But I respect floor too. And like I said before - I`m ok to change my mind when I have new info and new context.
But I was very high on Okhotiuk and nothing changed. He was very food this season in Utica for his role. I really like his combo of skills. When we have a lot of talented skill playes, guys like Okhotiuk could really help organisation to be not only scoring team, but winning team too.
We should trade Smith. We have Hamilton, I think we will sign Severson and Luke Hughes will join the team next spring. Smith is on the ELC and some teams with cap problems can think about their future. Or Arizona, who have tonns of picks. Smith price is still high and we don`t need to wait Butcher`s situation, or even situation, where he will play good enough and will ask salary increase, and we or a lot of potential new teams will not find a way to pay for it. This is exactly the best moment to trade him. The best-best one was year ago, but who did listen Guadana, everybody loves 0.5 ppg from "bamby-defenseman".
And I don`t think that time to trade Graves has come. Siegenthaler-Smith-Bahl\Okhotiuk or even Siegenthaler-Bahl-Okhotiuk is very risky defensive left side. If anyone will hurt or struggle, like Smith struggle this season or season before(don`t tell me he was good year ago, he wasn`t. He produced - yes, but he wasn`t good defenseman year ago). Siegenthaler-Graves-Bahl\Okhotiuk is good enough left side of defense and if both Nikita and Bahl will handle, we could think about trade of Graves. But for now it is too early.
Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
I would be very surprised to see Ty dealt this offseason but the numbers on the left side are starting to add up. Eventually, he appears to be the odd man out if he cannot rebound from this season.
I really like him, it'd be a shame but it'll depend on how things shake out over the next season. Trading him now is too soon in my eyes.
I really like him, it'd be a shame but it'll depend on how things shake out over the next season. Trading him now is too soon in my eyes.
Mgd31
Registered User
I don't think Graves has been all that great either, but they'll keep him at least until the trade deadline next year.
They tried to get him Fitz must have felt the ask was too high....The risk was high and still is with Tank we don't need him at his age and what he will cost....Glad Fitz passed on him wasn't meant to be....
- Status
Ad
Latest posts
-
Confirmed with Link: Meme/Like Thread 6 - A new season on the horizon- Latest: Unsustainable
-
-
