Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[JimEIV]

Serious question, would you rather have Mercer and Bratt for the next 6 years or Meier?

Going with the notion that Meier might cost Mercer in a trade and might not leave enough room to pay Bratt what he's looking for...

 

[Devs3cups]

I really don’t think the price would even be as high as Mercer, and if it is, I HIGHLY doubt Fitz does it.

 

[NJDevs26]

Do you have amnesia? That's the same mentality that got into a 10 year rebuild.

I mean every team that is win now will eventually have to rebuild, the days of having 15-20 year dynasties are over because of the cap and FA rules. Our rebuild was longer than it should have been because we tried to keep the win now cycle going three years longer than it should have been, we should have gone into tear it down mode the minute Parise walked, given the ages of our other key players at the time but instead we ‘traded’ Horvat for Cory, traded #11 in 2015 for pick #29 in 2013 and #30 in 2015 and never cashed out on anyone else besides Jagr after it was too late

 

[JimEIV]

I mean every team that is win now will eventually have to rebuild, the days of having 15-20 year dynasties are over because of the cap and FA rules. Our rebuild was longer than it should have been because we tried to keep the win now cycle going three years longer than it should have been, we should have gone into tear it down mode the minute Parise walked, given the ages of our other key players at the time.

Pittsburgh is currently on a 16 year playoff streak.

 

[NJDevs26]

Pittsburgh is currently on a 16 year playoff streak.

How many of those years have they been a legit Cup contender, maybe half? They’ve pretty much been a postseason nonentity since their last Cup. The odds of getting a Crosby AND a Malkin are also much lower with the new lottery rules

 

[Rhodes 81]

Zach Parise lite, and I'd try to get him on something cheap long term too. It boned us with Bratt and has worked with Nico/Jack. Let's get another steal of a contract at the forward spot.

I don't know if Mercer would go for that kind of deal. You're not going to give him 7+/year and why else would he give up any UFA years on his next contract? I think you'll see him on a bridge deal.

so people comparing mercer to parise/coleman/langs as reasons to keep him over being the piece that lands TM. thats certainly an interesting take on here. all 3 former devils mentioned all very very good players but TM over them imo.

I think most people here would trade Mercer for Meier straight up, but it's never that simple. If SJ wanted Mercer + one of the d prospects + a high pick, then how much more is Meier really worth than Mercer if you take the cap space difference, the cost of those additional assets, and the age factor and assumption that Mercer will be a better player moving forward.

It's easier to add top assets to Holtz over Mercer because Holtz is not already contributing to the team. I still think Holtz will wind up being a better player than Mercer, but SJ is taking on all of the risk in a Holtz/1st/Mukhamadullin deal as compared to a Mercer/2nd/Mukhamdullin deal, and is not taking anything away that is currently contributing.

Serious question, would you rather have Mercer and Bratt for the next 6 years or Meier?

Going with the notion that Meier might cost Mercer in a trade and might not leave enough room to pay Bratt what he's looking for...

I'd rather keep what we have, but I think we can afford all three. Just accepting that means you will have a young and inexperienced defense for the next couple of years.

 

[JimEIV]

How many of those years have they been a legit Cup contender, maybe half? They’ve pretty much been a postseason nonentity since their last Cup. The odds of getting a Crosby AND a Malkin are also much lower with the new lottery rules

I just think if you have an elite 20 year player and supplement the roster creatively and to a lesser extent through the draft, you can stay competitive for a very long time.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

really thats why?



its absolutely as simple as that.

 

[Bleedred]

Langs is an interesting comp.

ZZ Pops was a ton of fun. Great cycling and possession line. But, Langenbrunner always felt like a more complementary piece to that line. He seemed more like a 2nd line player who was on the top line because of fit.

Edit: also, I think that having smart players who can be moved up and down the line up is critical for a winning team, but I think teams can't overpay these players. Obviously, we've been in a weird environment the past few years where cap impacts have been magnified. But, I think getting Mercer to a longer term deal that's under $5 million ($4.5?) would make him more important to the team. I don't have Evolving Hockey access, so not sure how on target I am with that thinking (nor do I have a good sense of 2024-2025 cap projections).

That's fair about Langs. His best offensive output seasons were in his 30's. I think 3 of his 4 highest offense producing years were in his 30's. That's why he went from one of the best years in his career at age 34 to falling off a cliff the next season. He went from being 28 to 35 in just a few months, because he wasn't really 34 when he was 34 or at least produced considerably better than that. I think 08-09 and 09-10 were all of Langs, Zajac and Parise's best years. Parise crushed it a bit more, because he was obviously the best player of the 3.

But to be fair, Langs was the third wheel to Madolfo before that and clearly better than them. Pandolfo was SHOT by that point and Madden wasn't too much further behind him. That's why I always say, Pandolfo was one of the most overrated Devils of all time. Sadly, Madden probably isn't too far behind him, although Madden was still THAT much better than Pandolfo, but he also wasn't as good as Holik or even Zajac, but he was here for 2 cups (Zajac wasn't) and he had that gritty element, like the famous picture from the 2003 playoffs of him lining up for a draw with a black eye and long cut across his face under it. And I actually liked Madden, but I also thought he was somewhat overrated and he also wasn't a stalwart shutdown forward by about 06-07 and if not for his weird and random 20 goal insane shooting season in 07-08 (which was only the second time in his career he would ever hit 20 goals), he may have already been about as shot that year as he wound up being the next year, which would be his last a Devil. But he had that one 20 goal scoring season at 34-35 years old in his second to last year here.

I feel like I have been going on rants about how overrated Pandolfo was every week for the last three. For some reason I always find a way to think of him when something else comes up. Be it the whole ''Overpaid for being so underpaid for years'' factor that always makes me think of him in regards to other players that do that or talking about Langs or defensive forwards lol.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I just think if you have an elite 20 year player and supplement the roster creatively and to a lesser extent through the draft, you can stay competitive for a very long time.

There's really no reason we should have a completely non-competitive season again in Hughes' career. We will not be cup contenders for all of it, but we have the pieces already to be good for the next decade. From there's it's all about managing the cap so that you can keep the players you really need to and retaining enough younger assets so that you don't fall off a cliff as badly as the Devils did the last time this franchise experienced so much success.

 

[JimEIV]

There's really no reason we should have a completely non-competitive season again in Hughes' career. We will not be cup contenders for all of it, but we have the pieces already to be good for the next decade. From there's it's all about managing the cap so that you can keep the players you really need to and retaining enough younger assets so that you don't fall off a cliff as badly as the Devils did the last time this franchise experienced so much success.

I hope you're right. But Jack is not the biggest guy and I think he sometimes put himself in prone situations. You know that little squeeze through check along the boards he's done a couple of times recently... that's a good move to have your shoulders or ribs wrecked...

Your best player has to stay relatively healthy for that to really work out.

 

[JrFischer54]

Serious question, would you rather have Mercer and Bratt for the next 6 years or Meier?

Going with the notion that Meier might cost Mercer in a trade and might not leave enough room to pay Bratt what he's looking for...

putting it like that bratt and mercer BUT thats not how it would shake out. the devils wouldn't just voluntarily lose bratt for nothing. i think meier is better then bratt but whatever you end up getting back for bratt will be a nice pacakge.

 

[JrFischer54]

So trade your depth/potential cheapest top 6 forward for Meier along with a first rounder that you can supplant the bottom of the roster with ELC's to build a roster. That seems smart, not.

i dont really care about a late 20 first round draft pick if you want another chase stillman you could probably find him in round two. we are talking about one of the youngest teams in the league here and you guys are all caught up on elc lol when all i keep reading on here is how great our prospect pool is.

question realistically when his contract is up next year assuming like everyone on here is saying he takes another step forward next year what is mercer looking at on his next contract? that question is for everyone

 

[Nubmer6]

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BTW, for those without a subscription, Seamus Casey and Shakir Mukhamadulin were honorable mentions on the list (There were 55 of them).

 

[HBK27]

Fairly obvious this was always the case, but hasn't stopped some Sharks fans from dreaming.

 

[HoliksGhost]

Jack needs top line talent on his line. Timo and Jack would be sick. Not to mention, another weapon on our PP.

 

[JrFischer54]

Fairly obvious this was always the case, but hasn't stopped some Sharks fans from dreaming.

man if you could pickup a 35-40 goal 70-80pt player and you don't have to give up your two biggest chips. you 10000000000000000% make that deal i'd hate to lose mercer but i rather have a known then a what if.

 

[Triumph]

A deal involving Mercer and Meier is just that - the Devils should have to provide nothing else of substance. Mercer has five years of team control left, he's 21, and he's the kind of player every team wants. I don't think he's ever a first-line quality forward - his speed and shot just aren't there - but he's got everything else you want in a forward.

 

[Devs3cups]

Fairly obvious this was always the case, but hasn't stopped some Sharks fans from dreaming.

Yup, that was kind of obvious. Kinda glad it’s confirmed though haha.

 

[Nubmer6]

Jack needs top line talent on his line. Timo and Jack would be sick. Not to mention, another weapon on our PP.

They're both shooters. I'd rather have Jack with Bratt and a board work guy like Mercer or Palat, and Timo with Nico (and NOT because they're countrymen), who would REALLY benefit from a shooter on his line.

So many people are still stuck in the mindset that Jack is a pure playmaker while he's really evolved into a shooter. At the same time, Nico really generates a lot of chances and would really benefit from a finisher.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Mercer for Meier is fine in a vacuum. But in terms of team building, it makes me nervous. Dawson is only 20 and is already a bonafide 20/40 guy who is skilled and versatile enough to play on either the 2nd or 3rd line. He's also cost controlled. This is the kind of player that provides the depth needed to win a cup. And he's likely only going to get better in the next couple of years. We might be able to find a replacement but the cost would be higher than anyone would like and if we are getting back Meier we aren't exactly going to have a ton of cap space to address this. A trade like this would make this team top heavy with less flexibility on rounding out the depth. That doesn't seem like a recipe for winning it all.

I'd much rather give up quantity over quality for Timo. Someone like Shara is much more expendable than Mercer - he still has the potential to be a decent goal scorer in this league but he doesn't provide what Dawson does and he's sort of the odd man out now. Holtz is basically in the same boat just even less proven. Those two guys plus some combo of picks seems like the right move to me.

 

[HBK27]

Mercer for Meier is fine in a vacuum. But in terms of team building, it makes me nervous. Dawson is only 20 and is already a bonafide 20/40 guy who is skilled and versatile enough to play on either the 2nd or 3rd line. He's also cost controlled. This is the kind of player that provides the depth needed to win a cup. And he's likely only going to get better in the next couple of years. We might be able to find a replacement but the cost would be higher than anyone would like and if we are getting back Meier we aren't exactly going to have a ton of cap space to address this. A trade like this would make this team top heavy with less flexibility on rounding out the depth. That doesn't seem like a recipe for winning it all.

I'd much rather give up quantity over quality for Timo. Someone like Shara is much more expendable than Mercer - he still has the potential to be a decent goal scorer in this league but he doesn't provide what Dawson does and he's sort of the odd man out now. Holtz is basically in the same boat just even less proven. Those two guys plus some combo of picks seems like the right move to me.

It also just doesn't make sense for a contending team to deal a significant roster player like Mercer, who is 5th on the team in scoring. The Devils have so many other assets available in picks and prospects to get a deal done - no need to take two steps forward and one back by dealing Mercer for Meier.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

No thanks

 

[JrFischer54]

Mercer for Meier is fine in a vacuum. But in terms of team building, it makes me nervous. Dawson is only 20 and is already a bonafide 20/40 guy who is skilled and versatile enough to play on either the 2nd or 3rd line. He's also cost controlled. This is the kind of player that provides the depth needed to win a cup. And he's likely only going to get better in the next couple of years. We might be able to find a replacement but the cost would be higher than anyone would like and if we are getting back Meier we aren't exactly going to have a ton of cap space to address this. A trade like this would make this team top heavy with less flexibility on rounding out the depth. That doesn't seem like a recipe for winning it all.

I'd much rather give up quantity over quality for Timo. Someone like Shara is much more expendable than Mercer - he still has the potential to be a decent goal scorer in this league but he doesn't provide what Dawson does and he's sort of the odd man out now. Holtz is basically in the same boat just even less proven. Those two guys plus some combo of picks seems like the right move to me.

those guys are much easier to find then a 35-40 goal scorer

 

[guitarguyvic]

It also just doesn't make sense for a contending team to deal a significant roster player like Mercer, who is 5th on the team in scoring. The Devils have so many other assets available in picks and prospects to get a deal done - no need to take two steps forward and one back by dealing Mercer for Meier.

Where is this idea that Mercer is on the table even coming from?

those guys are much easier to find then a 35-40 goal scorer

The ones that can be picked up are going to be vets that are going to command more money and term than a 20 year old team/cost controlled player. Acquiring Meier and assuming we pay Bratt means we might not have the cap space to sign this type of player. That's the issue, not whether or not they are easy to find.