Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[Triumph]

If you want to use points as a basis for anything, feel free, but understand that when a player plays 20 minutes a game and is the focal point of PP1, 35 points in 47 games is actually pretty bad, regardless of team.

 

[MB3]

He's been in the league for fifteen years - if you don't think Patrick Kane is dogshit defensively, you haven't been paying attention.



His defensive metrics were bad long before that.



He wouldn't play PP1 here, he's awful defensively, and can't finish anymore. The hardest of passes on a guy like this.

I’m not interested in acquiring him for his defensive metrics. He’s an elite scoring winger and a perfectly fine plan-B if they whiff on Meier. He’s nearly a point per game player across 120+ career playoff games where he’s won three cups and a Conn Smythe. His game obviously translates.

Thank god he won’t play PP1 here. Maybe we can actually have a player that looks remotely competent on the PP2, what a world that would be. Unless maybe you’re eager to watch more of McLeod and Eric Haula whiffing on zone entries and spinning in circles for 40 seconds.

 

[Guttersniped]

I’m really surprised the “future” crowd isn’t more open to bringing in an unextended Meier since the price will be way less then an extended one. I also don’t think you need protections on the first rounder unless jacks injury is way worse then they are leading on.

I don’t think an extension changes Meier’s price that much right now.

They just aren’t letting a team talk to his agent until a trade is worked out first.

A team can make an extension a condition of the trade if they want to.

 

[MB3]

Wayne Gretzky is a Hall of FAmer too, should we acquire him?

Look, he just isnt good anymore. Looking at his counting stats and saying "LOOK HE HAS 35 POINTS ON A BAD TEAM!" is a terrible, neanderthal argument. The rest of his teammates also play with bad players and they all have better underlying numbers than he does for the most part.

He won the Conn Smythe 10 years ago. ,I have no idea what that has to do with anything in 2023.

Yes, the Forsberg and Gretzky call-outs are totally rational responses.

The Devils could do a whole lot worse with their deadline than adding Patrick Kane if he’s healthy and if the price is right.

 

[MadDevil]

Yes, the Forsberg and Gretzky call-outs are totally rational responses.

The Devils could do a whole lot worse with their deadline than adding Patrick Kane if he’s healthy and if the price is right.

He's not and it likely won't be. You're buying him for his name and pedigree over actual recent results, which usually doesn't go well.

 

[Eggtimer]

Yes, the Forsberg and Gretzky call-outs are totally rational responses.

The Devils could do a whole lot worse with their deadline than adding Patrick Kane if he’s healthy and if the price is right.

That’s the thing. The cost will be high . I just think there are better options amd directions to go than Kane if we don’t get Meier.
Id rather add a player or two like Jeannot , Barbashev , for the bottom 6 than pay a ton for Kane

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I’m not interested in acquiring him for his defensive metrics. He’s an elite scoring winger and a perfectly fine plan-B if they whiff on Meier. He’s nearly a point per game player across 120+ career playoff games where he’s won three cups and a Conn Smythe. His game obviously translates.

Thank god he won’t play PP1 here. Maybe we can actually have a player that looks remotely competent on the PP2, what a world that would be. Unless maybe you’re eager to watch more of McLeod and Eric Haula whiffing on zone entries and spinning in circles for 40 seconds.

No, he is not. Not anymore.

Again, I don't really know what playoff games from 10 and 12 years ago have anything to do with 2023.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Holtz has played a total of 22 professional hockey games this season, that’s it. And it’s already February.

What the hell is the plan?

 

[MB3]

He's not and it likely won't be. You're buying him for his name and pedigree over actual recent results, which usually doesn't go well.

I think the cost will eventually surprise some people. He has full control over wherever he goes, and if playing next to Jack Hughes on the east coast is something that interests him I don’t think it will cost as much as Tarasenko.

If it’s more than that, I agree that I don’t have interest in him. But if Meier is Plan A, B, and C, I won’t throw a temper tantrum if Kane is plan D.

Holtz has played a total of 22 professional hockey games this season, that’s it. And it’s already February.

What the hell is the plan?

He looked like he belonged in an NHL hockey game in like 2 of those games, so maybe the plan is “keep him up here with NHL coaching to see if we can stop him from being another horrendous first round draft pick from the Devils”

No, he is not. Not anymore.

Again, I don't really know what playoff games from 10 and 12 years ago have anything to do with 2023.

His 92 points last year would have been fifth most in the history of the franchise. History of the franchise!

That’s not even 10-12 months ago, let alone years.

 

[Nocashstyle]

He looked like he belonged in an NHL hockey game in like 2 of those games, so maybe the plan is “keep him up here with NHL coaching to see if we can stop him from being another horrendous first round draft pick from the Devils”

Yeah keeping a guy up who is not ready and not having them play any games in the AHL or NHL is not exactly good development.

Not sure if you’re serious or not here.

 

[Comparison Ford]

dream deadline is adding Meier and one, maybe both, of Barbashev and henrique.

 

[MauDevils]

dream deadline is adding Meier and one, maybe both, of Barbashev and henrique.

With what cap space? We can afford one of those guys and it would require 50% retention and sending Johnsson the other way.

 

[theoptimist]

We don’t play for a night and the statisticians are talking up Henrique

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I think the cost will eventually surprise some people. He has full control over wherever he goes, and if playing next to Jack Hughes on the east coast is something that interests him I don’t think it will cost as much as Tarasenko.

If it’s more than that, I agree that I don’t have interest in him. But if Meier is Plan A, B, and C, I won’t throw a temper tantrum if Kane is plan D.


He looked like he belonged in an NHL hockey game in like 2 of those games, so maybe the plan is “keep him up here with NHL coaching to see if we can stop him from being another horrendous first round draft pick from the Devils”


His 92 points last year would have been fifth most in the history of the franchise. History of the franchise!

That’s not even 10-12 months ago, let alone years.

now if only we could trade for 2021-22 Patrick Kane!!!

 

[Eggtimer]

dream deadline is adding Meier and one, maybe both, of Barbashev and henrique.

Same.
For me it’s :
Meier








Jeanott
Barbashev
Gudas
Kulikov
Henrique ( at 50% retention )

Only thing is Henrique has another year and might prevent us from landing an elite winger if we dint get Meier right now)
Same goes for any addition. I dont want to add a lesser piece if it means we cannot go hard after an elite winger.
Replacimg Wood with Henrique would be sexy .

 

[JrFischer54]

now if only we could trade for 2021-22 Patrick Kane!!!

What do you think Kane will end up getting dealt for?

Or also what would you be ok giving up for Kane. Those questions for really for everyone. Everyone saying his price is high what’s high?

 

[MB3]

now if only we could trade for 2021-22 Patrick Kane!!!

so your argument is that 2022 patrick kane is worth acquiring but 2023 patrick kane isn’t?

then your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[Forge]

so your argument is that 2022 patrick kane is worth acquiring but 2023 patrick kane isn’t?

then your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

Kane is really bad this year. Worse than last year.

 

[Billdo]

now if only we could trade for 2021-22 Patrick Kane!!!

I wonder how much of his "decline" based off his underlying numbers is related to health and the overall suck that is surrounding him. It's gotta be hard trying to "get up" for every game when you know it's essentially for nothing.

 

[billingtons ghost]

It's clearly been a long time since a lot of people here have been invested in playoff hockey because rolling rookie defensemen with zero NHL experience in April might be the most asinine idea of all time. Let's not forget that Hughes and Nemec had defensive issues in the World Juniors against 19 year olds and you think you're just going to roll them out there against Mika Zibanejad, Chris Kreider, Artemi Panarin and Vladamir Tarasenko and not miss a beat?

Experienced impact defensemen like Mackenzie Weegar and John Marino were scapegoats in the playoffs last year and run out of town. I have zero interest in exposing kids like Nemec and Hughes to that before they've played a minute of hockey against NHL size and speed.

If it takes Severson to get a Meier deal done, I still hesitate to do it, but the truth is:
Fitz can always make a side deal to bring back a veteran plug. He picks up Kulikov or equivalent and we don't get worse defensively but lose a bit offensively on the back end but gain a TON up front.

I've argued against moving Severson despite being his most vocal of critics, but I can think of alot of bottom pairing guys I'd probably rather see on the ice in a tie game in the third.

 

[Forge]

I wonder how much of his "decline" based off his underlying numbers is related to health and the overall suck that is surrounding him. It's gotta be hard trying to "get up" for every game when you know it's essentially for nothing.

There is something to this, but at the same time, if you're questioning his makeup to play hard for that team, I also have to wonder what it means that he hasn't even decided if he wants to leave that situation. I mean, he's dragging his heels on whether or not he even wants to be trading, and that is a bit of a flag for me even if I wanted to acquire him.

 

[My3Sons]

The Hischier line has to be broken up. They’re a big reason why the our advance stats have dipped over the last month.

Devils need to break up Hischier, Bratt, and Palat

Alex Chauvancy dives into some of the many reasons why in his latest.

infernalaccess.substack.com

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View attachment 648516

Dropping Bratt down and moving up Tatar Downey sound like a recipe for success. I’ll also suggest thr numbers aren’t kept all that accurately. Take a look at natural stat trick. Maybe I misread it but they had Hischier for zero high danger chances last game when he had that one where he dangled two Kraken and shot it off thr iron. If that wasn’t a high danger chance the stat is flawed.

 

[Forge]

dream deadline is adding Meier and one, maybe both, of Barbashev and henrique.

Where are we getting the money / cap space for all that?

 

[Triumph]

so your argument is that 2022 patrick kane is worth acquiring but 2023 patrick kane isn’t?

then your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

No it's not. He's a year older and clearly worse. Players get worse and sometimes it happens very fast.

 

[MB3]

Kane is really bad this year. Worse than last year.

last year he would’ve had the 5th most points in the history of the new jersey devils. that’s not really bad. that’s really needed.

he’s not my first choice. but he’s not a disaster.