Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Lou Bloom]

I definitely would not trade Casey for Pettersson or a similar defender. I wouldn’t even trade him for Chychrun either. Just not wise asset management.

Moving Casey would just be a short sighted overreaction to this year, in my opinion. Bahl, Holtz, Clarke, Foote, and picks should all have varying degrees of value to acquire a goaltender, middle-six forward, or a veteran defender. There’s some strong targets in free agency too for the forwards.

Just wait for Casey to develop and see where Luke/Nemec and the rest of the defense is at when he’s ready.

I'm not sure if 1 year of Marcus Pettersson is who I'd move him for but I don't think trading Casey for a better fit/immediate upgrade is a short sighted move. We're talking about an offense 1st, undersized defenseman on a team that already has Luke, Nemec and Hamilton on it. The Devils are not short on skill if there's a trade out there that can improve either the goaltending or overall team defense than I don't see why Casey should be off the table.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Yeah it's 1000% win now. Aside from Nemec and Luke, the entire core is in their prime win-now years. Waiting 3-5 years would already take you out of the prime window for a lot of these guys.

This season was a massive missed opportunity for so many reasons and it will be a complete failure if they don't go all-in over the next couple of seasons.

That's part of the reason why I think the 1st round pick is being moved for an impact NHL player in their prime right now.

I'm perfectly fine trading away players like Holtz or Casey but I'd be a hesitant trading away a current top 10 pick. There's players in that area of the draft that play the type of 200ft game the Devils could use more of and the Devils will need some players in the pipeline to provide cheap production down the line.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I’m only trading Casey as part of a deal for a legitimate first line forward or top pair D. Or Saros. Beyond that, I’m not moving him. He’s too good.

 

[NJDevs26]

As much as I love to have hope until it's mathematically impossible, sadly I don't think so this year. But I won't try to take your hope away.

Of course watch these f***ers kill Ottawa 7-2 now that the pressure is off

 

[TrufleShufle]

Of course watch these f***ers kill Ottawa 7-2 now that the pressure is off

Yup, I fully expect all the teams we need to lose, will lose and we will win. There is only 6 games left, mathematically only two more time to be hurt, tops? I'm ready for it.

 

[RSeen]

Would Casey even want to sign here? If I'm him and I see our right side, I look to become a free agent and join another team.

Regardless he is #4 on the depth chart in terms of potentially getting PP time with Dougie, Luke and Nemec ahead of him. I think you have to consider trading him as long as he is fairly valued.

 

[RSeen]

Said it before but I am targeting guys like Dakota Joshua and Yakov Trenin.

Might take a 4 x $3M deal for Joshua and perhaps 3-4 years at $1.75M - $2.25M for Trenin, but I'd consider potentially overspend given they will be 28 and 27 years old next year and we need to add physicality, 2 way play and improved depth to our bottom 6.

 

[bossram]

I definitely would not trade Casey for Pettersson or a similar defender. I wouldn’t even trade him for Chychrun either. Just not wise asset management.

Moving Casey would just be a short sighted overreaction to this year, in my opinion. Bahl, Holtz, Clarke, Foote, and picks should all have varying degrees of value to acquire a goaltender, middle-six forward, or a veteran defender. There’s some strong targets in free agency too for the forwards.

Just wait for Casey to develop and see where Luke/Nemec and the rest of the defense is at when he’s ready.

That's a fair opinion. But the team needs to be upgraded for next season. Casey is a clear trade chip.

Like I said, I think the goaltending and forward depth can be addressed relatively cheaply or via UFA. But the market for top-four defensemen is thin, and I don't think the pieces you mentioned could be combined to acquire an ideal one.

I think the team should be contending now. Waiting to me is wasting prime years off Nico (on a value deal), Meier, Bratt, Marino, and Dougie.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I’m only trading Casey as part of a deal for a legitimate first line forward or top pair D. Or Saros. Beyond that, I’m not moving him. He’s too good.

I think that's overrating him quite a bit. I'd absolutely trade him for the next Lehkonen, Coleman or Hagel if that type of player became available. Casey is doing great in college but he's not a blue chip prospect and it's a fair concern to wonder how his game will translate to the NHL level, especially on a team that doesn't have an avenue to PP time.

 

[bossram]

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They are. Skjei is still an option too. Players like Dumolin, even if they cost big, dont need to trade Casey level assets.

If you dont see this it doesnt mean he will not help the team as a cheap and very talented addition. Byram played behind some players too, he still was quite effective in the play off.

I know Skjei is a pending UFA. As pretty much the only tough-minutes top-four LHD available on the UFA market, he will be highly sought after and expensive. Hency why I think that need will have to be addressed via trade. Dumoulin is not the answer lol. He's not even better than Bahl.

We have a difference of opinion. I don't see Casey as a Byram-level prospect. Which is why I'm open to trading him for an upgrade.

 

[MartyOwns]

i'm not trading casey unless some gm is willing to waaaay overpay for him...you can never have enough blue chip defensemen in the system. but that's besides the point- i think you guys are severely overestimating what his return would be.

 

[Bleedred]

One thing to consider with Casey is that he'll be very cheap when Luke and Nemec are no longer on ELC's.

 

[Guadana]

I know Skjei is a pending UFA. As pretty much the only tough-minutes top-four LHD available on the UFA market, he will be highly sought after and expensive. Hency why I think that need will have to be addressed via trade. Dumoulin is not the answer lol. He's not even better than Bahl.

We have a difference of opinion. I don't see Casey as a Byram-level prospect. Which is why I'm open to trading him for an upgrade.

Dumolin? Dumolin is one of the best defensive defensemen from the entire league.

5 on 5 Dumolin is 4 best in xGA per league
He is top 10/top 15 in CA, SA, FA.
He is second best in HDCA per league.

He is better than Bahl. You should rethink your defensive vision. Same for Casey. And if you will read closely i said " he can be Byram level upgrade" not "Byram level prospect".

 

[NjDevsRR]

Hold onto Casey. We have good assets to deal out in our 1st and Holtz. We should be able to get really good returns

 

[None Shall Pass]

I wonder if there are any center prospects at Casey's level. I, too, love Casey's game, but that might be a swap I'm interested in. With McLeod gone, our centers are Nico, Healthy Jack, and a whole lotta meh, with nothing to note elsewhere in the system.

 

[Zippy316]

That's a fair opinion. But the team needs to be upgraded for next season. Casey is a clear trade chip.

Like I said, I think the goaltending and forward depth can be addressed relatively cheaply or via UFA. But the market for top-four defensemen is thin, and I don't think the pieces you mentioned could be combined to acquire an ideal one.

I think the team should be contending now. Waiting to me is wasting prime years off Nico (on a value deal), Meier, Bratt, Marino, and Dougie.

The thing is that prospects like Casey should only be moved for difference makers. Either borderline top line forward or top pairing defenders.

With how tight the Devils cap situation may look soon trying to re-up Luke, Nemec, and Mercer while trying to add around them, we can’t really afford another Meier and a 7+ million dollar cap hit that comes with it.

We would need to look at some cost certainty and try to poach players on good contracts. Those are few and far between and generally teams don’t like to move those guys. Matheson is the only name I can think of where I would be able to stomach moving Casey because of his ability, play style being a fit here, and then his contract.

Again that has to be weighed against Casey being on his ELC when we will need ELC players too.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Hold onto Casey. We have good assets to deal out in our 1st and Holtz. We should be able to get really good returns

I'd value a top 10 pick much higher than I'd value Casey. Especially when you factor in the Devils have Luke, Nemec and Dougie ahead of him on the PP.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I think that's overrating him quite a bit. I'd absolutely trade him for the next Lehkonen, Coleman or Hagel if that type of player became available. Casey is doing great in college but he's not a blue chip prospect and it's a fair concern to wonder how his game will translate to the NHL level, especially on a team that doesn't have an avenue to PP time.

Hagel is basically a first line player now. I’m not trading him for someone that doesn’t move the needle.

He’s a blue chip prospect for me and is likely far better than what his value would be around the league (he’s small, wasn’t a 1st rounder).

 

[Brodeur]

Would Casey even want to sign here? If I'm him and I see our right side, I look to become a free agent and join another team.

Regardless he is #4 on the depth chart in terms of potentially getting PP time with Dougie, Luke and Nemec ahead of him. I think you have to consider trading him as long as he is fairly valued.

It's a tough call for him, but I'm not sure Casey walks directly into an NHL roster spot on another team. He'd be fighting for PP time pretty much everywhere aside from San Jose. Perhaps the Panthers/Lightning would be interesting if he wanted to be closer to home and those teams have jettisoned a lot of recent draft picks.

The one thing the Devils have in their favor is that they can sign him and burn an ELC year to expedite his next contract. Waiting four years + August 15th can put a dent in his pocket book.

The example I usually point out is Nick Bjugstad and Kevin Hayes. Both were 2010 1st rounders, Bjugstad signed after his junior year while Hayes graduated and became a free agent.

Bjugstad (3 year ELC signing at 21)
2010-11: Freshman
2011-12: Sophomore
2012-13: Junior; ELC1
2013-14: ELC2
2014-15: ELC3
2015-16: 2.85 mil (RFA extension @4.1 mil AAV)
2016-17: 3.35 mil
2017-18: 3.85 mil

Hayes (2 year ELC signing at 22)
2010-11: Freshman
2011-12: Sophomore
2012-13: Junior
2013-14: Senior
2014-15: ELC1
2015-16: ELC2
2016-17: 2.6 mil (RFA extension 2 x 2.6 mil AAV)
2017-18: 2.6 mil

By 2018, Bjugstad probably had a couple million more in his bank account. If Casey signed now and burned the first year, he'd be RFA (without offer sheet rights) in the summer of 2026. If he graduated and became a free agent, his mandatory two year ELC would start in 2026-27.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Yeah, I'm not trading Casey unless someone legit is coming back to NJ. People worrying about the offensive side are overreacting to a bad year of our players besides the studs all having down years + Fitz screwing the pooch with going heavier instead of committing to a speed demon roster after getting thumped by Carolina. Casey helps with the latter, if he was a Bahl build, they'd be a better argument for a move since you could trade him essentially to beef up the roster in another way or acquire the goalie you want.

 

[JimEIV]

This team just had the 3rd best record in the NHL a year ago with the same core in place. They shouldn't be seen as a playoff lock but they absolutely should be going into next season with playoff expectations.

The Canucks just last season were a mess defensively and apart from the midseason acquisition for Hronek (while also losing Horvat) didn't make any big time roster moves and have completed a 20+ point turnaround.

The Devils themselves from two seasons ago didn't make any major roster moves apart from Marino (who was great) and Palat (who was fine but injury prone) and they had one of the biggest turnarounds in NHL history and went from awful defensively to a top 10 defense.

Get a coach that can put a better system in place and go out and acquire some players that can contribute in ways outside of scoring and I don't see why this team ca

Making the playoffs and competing for a championship aren't the same thing to me...

When someone says the "window is open"...to me that means for the next X amount of years the team is ready to throw balls to the wall to win a championship.

Now, a team that is currently the 10 worst in the league and has only made the playoffs once with this current core doesn't seem to be on the cusp of competing for a championship.

Two seasons ago we made major roster changes.

We traded Zacha for Haula,

We added Palat

We added Vitek

We got rid of Subban, Ty Smith, Kuokkanen, Vessey

We added Marino

We sent Johnsson down to the minors


That's not insignificant.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Hagel is basically a first line player now. I’m not trading him for someone that doesn’t move the needle.

He’s a blue chip prospect for me and is likely far better than what his value would be around the league (he’s small, wasn’t a 1st rounder).

I'm talking about how those guys were thought of when they were traded (Hagel, Coleman and Lehkonen were all seen as middle six players at the time they were traded).

Casey is a very good prospect but I don't view him as a blue chip prospect. Zeev Buium has better production, more translatable game to the NHL and is two years younger and he might not even be a top 10 pick in a relatively weak draft. If Casey is a Blue chip prospect than there's a ton of blue chip prospects around the league.

 

[MartyOwns]

I wonder if there are any center prospects at Casey's level. I, too, love Casey's game, but that might be a swap I'm interested in. With McLeod gone, our centers are Nico, Healthy Jack, and a whole lotta meh, with nothing to note elsewhere in the system.

eh, any blue chip center prospects are likely not getting dealt. i think we can fill that void without losing arguably our best prospect (cough henrique cough)

 

[Lou Bloom]

Making the playoffs and competing for a championship aren't the same thing to me...

When someone says the "window is open"...to me that means for the next X amount of years the team is ready to throw balls to the wall to win a championship.

Now, a team that is currently the 10 worst in the league and has only made the playoffs once with this current core doesn't seem to be on the cusp of competing for a championship.

Two seasons ago we made major roster changes.

We traded Zacha for Haula,

We added Palat

We added Vitek

We got rid of Subban, Ty Smith, Kuokkanen, Vessey

We added Marino

We sent Johnsson down to the minors


That's not insignificant.

I wouldn't consider any of those moves major roster changes. To me major roster changes indicate adding or subtracting core pieces to your team. All of those moves were adding/subtracting complimentary pieces. Which is exactly the types of moves I think this year's team should be looking to make.

 

[bossram]

Dumolin? Dumolin is one of the best defensive defensemen from the entire league.

5 on 5 Dumolin is 4 best in xGA per league
He is top 10/top 15 in CA, SA, FA.
He is second best in HDCA per league.

He is better than Bahl. You should rethink your defensive vision. Same for Casey. And if you will read closely i said " he can be Byram level upgrade" not "Byram level prospect".

Dumoulin was abysmal last season with PIT. With SEA, they've moved him into a 3rd pair role and his results look better - albeit SEA is a low-event team in the first place, so there's relatively little happening and that kind of role is easier to "look good" defensively.

I think he is a disaster waiting to happen if you promote him back into a hard-minutes top-four player.

What is the difference between "Byram level upgrade" and "Byram level prospect"? Do you think Casey is going to play at a 1D calibre level in the playoffs next year in his 20 year-old season, as Byram did in his?