Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

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Guadana

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Sure. But the Devils are in Cup contention mode and also need upgrades in those current seasons where Casey is supposedly in the AHL.


Not really a fan and I don't think he fits the Devils' need.
Casey is potential "Byram level" upgrade after next or next two years. We can still trade other assets or sign free agents from the market, we have plenty options. De Haan, Kulikov, Skjei, Dillon, Henrique, Trenin, Foegele, Joshua, Noesen etc. Plenty options for different role. Same for goalies. Depth is huge and obvious issue this year. Casey, Gritsyuk or Lenny should be dealt for long term piece only.
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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Everyone agrees the Devils' blueline needs to improve defensively. There are already three defensemen on the roster who are going to eat up the available offensive and PP minutes.

No, Casey doesn't "have" to be traded. But given that the Devils are in win-now mode, need a roster upgrade, that Casey is a valuable piece, and Casey will not have a clear role for himself in the short or medium-term, he is an obvious trade piece.

Most of Carolina's blueline is going UFA either this year or next year. There are obvious spots for Niskishin and Morrow to take. There was a clear progression for them. Casey isn't going to be the hard matchup guy with Marino, and he isn't going to be a PP guy ahead of Dougie or Luke. And there's Nemec competing for PP time as well. Very limited spots for him in the future.

Vegas trades all their prospects and picks and don't seem to think twice about it. It's worked out for them!
Can we make the assumption that the Devils are in "win now" mode?

I'm not sure that is a safe assumption....we all want it to be true but we haven't seen any sustained success.

I think if we are honest and look at the holes we do have and development that still needs to take place with our defense we're not really all that close. Not at this moment.... maybe another half of season things start to look different? But I'm not sure mortgaging the future is the right path this moment?
 

MasterofGrond

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Can we make the assumption that the Devils are in "win now" mode?

I'm not sure that is a safe assumption....we all want it to be true but we haven't seen any sustained success.

I think if we are honest and look at the holes we do have and development that still needs to take place with our defense we're not really all that close. Not at this moment.... maybe another half of season things start to look different? But I'm not sure mortgaging the future is the right path this moment?
Agreed. The Devils are lucky enough to have several more years of cost controlled contracts from their stars.

The Devils should be trying to win, obviously, and I really do think they'll be competitive next season, but I think there's a difference between that and being a "win-now" team trading their best prospect.
 

bossram

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Sep 25, 2013
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Casey is potential "Byram level" upgrade after next or next two years. We can still trade other assets or sign free agents from the market, we have plenty options. De Haan, Kulikov, Skjei, Dillon, Henrique, Trenin, Foegele, Joshua, Noesen etc. Plenty options for different role. Same for goalies. Depth is huge and obvious issue this year. Casey, Gritsyuk or Lenny should be dealt for long term piece only.
There are a lot of forward targets up front in free agency that are interesting to me. I've mentioned Debrusk, Foegele, and Trenin before as guys I'd like to sign.

The UFA market for top-four defensemen is a lot thinner. Other than Skjei, none of the defensemen you mentioned are an upgrade. He'll be sought after. That's why I think a LHD upgrade may have to come on the trade market, and Holtz/Casey are obvious trade chips.

I don't see Casey as a Byram-level prospect either. And to realize his potential he'll need offensive minutes that are in very short supply with the Devils.
 
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MartyOwns

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Apr 1, 2007
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only 3 players have more 5 on 5 primary assists than Bratt this year. Their names? McDavid, Kucherov, Crosby.

I know he sometimes disappears, but he is one of the best wingers in the league and we are lucky to have him locked up longterm at his #.
watching him last night pissed me off a little. he was great on both sides of the puck, phenomenal instincts…if he played like that in 90% of his games, he’d easily approach 100 points every year
 
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bossram

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Can we make the assumption that the Devils are in "win now" mode?

I'm not sure that is a safe assumption....we all want it to be true but we haven't seen any sustained success.

I think if we are honest and look at the holes we do have and development that still needs to take place with our defense we're not really all that close. Not at this moment.... maybe another half of season things start to look different? But I'm not sure mortgaging the future is the right path this moment?
I would. Or at least they should be.

A large proportion of their core are in their primes now (Nico, Bratt, Meier, Dougie, Marino). Nico is on a huge discount contract, and they're getting a ton of surplus value from their ELC/young guys (Luke, Nemec) which would allow them to allocate cap space elsewhere for an upgrade. I don't think they should just be winding down some of these prime years because they want to wait for more young players.

IMO trading some combo of Holtz (and again, I would actually prefer to keep Holtz but it's clear the org doesn't see much of a path for him) and Casey is not "mortgaging" the future to me. They already have players we know will be on the roster for a long time. It's about getting better. The Canucks made shrewd moves to get themselves back into that "team with a legit shot" level. We've seen the Devils can be at that level Iast season, and I think they should aim to be there next season.

I personally would keep their 1st rounder this year though, because there are some top-12ish guys in this year's draft I am very interested in.
 
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Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
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There are a lot of forward targets up front in free agency that are interesting to me. I've mentioned Debrusk, Foegele, and Trenin before as guys I'd like to sign.

The UFA market for top-four defensemen is a lot thinner. Other than Skjei, none of the defensemen you mentioned are an upgrade. He'll be sought after. That's why I think a LHD upgrade may have to come on the trade market, and Holtz/Casey are obvious trade chips.

I don't see Casey as a Byram-level prospect either. And to realize his potential he'll need offensive minutes that are in very short supply with the Devils.
I don’t see the point in moving Casey this off-season.

Feel like this team could address the main concerns being goaltending, middle-six depth, and potentially another second pairing defenseman, without having to move him. He’s an asset you trade for a first line forward or defender (like Muk in the trade for Meier). I’d rather keep Casey, let him fully develop a year in the AHL, and re-evaluate next off-season.

I also want to see how Luke develops before moving Casey. If Luke becomes closer to an all-situations defender in the next two years, it’s easier to find a spot on this team for Casey.
 
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bossram

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I don’t see the point in moving Casey this off-season.

Feel like this team could address the main concerns being goaltending, middle-six depth, and potentially another second pairing defenseman, without having to move him. He’s an asset you trade for a first line forward or defender (like Muk in the trade for Meier). I’d rather keep Casey, let him fully develop a year in the AHL, and re-evaluate next off-season.

I also want to see how Luke develops before moving Casey. If Luke becomes closer to an all-situations defender in the next two years, it’s easier to find a spot on this team for Casey.
Part of my predilection for using Casey as a trade chip is that I think the club should be in contender status next season, and to do so they'll need to upgrade the NHL roster.

For goaltending options there are musical chairs around the league, and there are a lot of middle-six forwards I'm interested in free agency, so I agree that upgrades can be made there outside of a Casey trade.

But as for top-four defensemen, the market is way thinner in UFA. I've proposed before going after Marcus Pettersson via trade. IMO he is a top-pair calibre player, so I think that would fit into the level of player you'd deem acceptable in a Casey trade. I don't want to trade him for like Ben Chiarot or some other dumb **** like that.
 

MadDevil

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Aside from Butcher, have we ever signed a college free agent that even became an NHL regular? I remember the Nick Lappin hype.

Edit: I forgot Andy Greene, but not many otherwise.
madden_cup_devils_2003_original_crop_north.jpg
 

Lou Bloom

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Can we make the assumption that the Devils are in "win now" mode?

I'm not sure that is a safe assumption....we all want it to be true but we haven't seen any sustained success.

I think if we are honest and look at the holes we do have and development that still needs to take place with our defense we're not really all that close. Not at this moment.... maybe another half of season things start to look different? But I'm not sure mortgaging the future is the right path this moment?
This team just had the 3rd best record in the NHL a year ago with the same core in place. They shouldn't be seen as a playoff lock but they absolutely should be going into next season with playoff expectations.

The Canucks just last season were a mess defensively and apart from the midseason acquisition for Hronek (while also losing Horvat) didn't make any big time roster moves and have completed a 20+ point turnaround.

The Devils themselves from two seasons ago didn't make any major roster moves apart from Marino (who was great) and Palat (who was fine but injury prone) and they had one of the biggest turnarounds in NHL history and went from awful defensively to a top 10 defense.

Get a coach that can put a better system in place and go out and acquire some players that can contribute in ways outside of scoring and I don't see why this team can't be contenders next season.
 

Unknown Caller

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Apr 30, 2009
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This team just had the 3rd best record in the NHL a year ago with the same core in place. They shouldn't be seen as a playoff lock but they absolutely should be going into next season with playoff expectations.

The Canucks just last season were a mess defensively and apart from the midseason acquisition for Hronek (while also losing Horvat) didn't make any big time roster moves and have completed a 20+ point turnaround.

The Devils themselves from two seasons ago didn't make any major roster moves apart from Marino (who was great) and Palat (who was fine but injury prone) and they had one of the biggest turnarounds in NHL history and went from awful defensively to a top 10 defense.

Get a coach that can put a better system in place and go out and acquire some players that can contribute in ways outside of scoring and I don't see why this team can't be contenders next season.
Yeah it's 1000% win now. Aside from Nemec and Luke, the entire core is in their prime win-now years. Waiting 3-5 years would already take you out of the prime window for a lot of these guys.

This season was a massive missed opportunity for so many reasons and it will be a complete failure if they don't go all-in over the next couple of seasons.

That's part of the reason why I think the 1st round pick is being moved for an impact NHL player in their prime right now.
 

Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
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Part of my predilection for using Casey as a trade chip is that I think the club should be in contender status next season, and to do so they'll need to upgrade the NHL roster.

For goaltending options there are musical chairs around the league, and there are a lot of middle-six forwards I'm interested in free agency, so I agree that upgrades can be made there outside of a Casey trade.

But as for top-four defensemen, the market is way thinner in UFA. I've proposed before going after Marcus Pettersson via trade. IMO he is a top-pair calibre player, so I think that would fit into the level of player you'd deem acceptable in a Casey trade. I don't want to trade him for like Ben Chiarot or some other dumb **** like that.
I definitely would not trade Casey for Pettersson or a similar defender. I wouldn’t even trade him for Chychrun either. Just not wise asset management.

Moving Casey would just be a short sighted overreaction to this year, in my opinion. Bahl, Holtz, Clarke, Foote, and picks should all have varying degrees of value to acquire a goaltender, middle-six forward, or a veteran defender. There’s some strong targets in free agency too for the forwards.

Just wait for Casey to develop and see where Luke/Nemec and the rest of the defense is at when he’s ready.
 
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Goptor

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Aside from Butcher, have we ever signed a college free agent that even became an NHL regular? I remember the Nick Lappin hype.

Edit: I forgot Andy Greene, but not many otherwise.

John Madden. Rafalski via Sweden.

Lou was very good at finding undrafted NCAA players due to his college connections.
 

Guadana

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Mar 7, 2012
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There are a lot of forward targets up front in free agency that are interesting to me. I've mentioned Debrusk, Foegele, and Trenin before as guys I'd like to sign.

The UFA market for top-four defensemen is a lot thinner. Other than Skjei, none of the defensemen you mentioned are an upgrade. He'll be sought after. That's why I think a LHD upgrade may have to come on the trade market, and Holtz/Casey are obvious trade chips.

I don't see Casey as a Byram-level prospect either. And to realize his potential he'll need offensive minutes that are in very short supply with the Devils.
1712259155957.png

1712259173768.png


They are. Skjei is still an option too. Players like Dumolin, even if they cost big, dont need to trade Casey level assets.

If you dont see this it doesnt mean he will not help the team as a cheap and very talented addition. Byram played behind some players too, he still was quite effective in the play off.
 

Unknown Caller

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Apr 30, 2009
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John Madden. Rafalski via Sweden.

Lou was very good at finding undrafted NCAA players due to his college connections.
Madden definitely. I don't count guys like Rafalski or Oduya because they weren't college free agents. They're more in the Gusev bucket.
 

ZYXWVUT

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Feb 26, 2024
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I definitely would not trade Casey for Pettersson or a similar defender. I wouldn’t even trade him for Chychrun either. Just not wise asset management.

Moving Casey would just be a short sighted overreaction to this year, in my opinion. Bahl, Holtz, Clarke, Foote, and picks should all have varying degrees of value to acquire a goaltender, middle-six forward, or a veteran defender. There’s some strong targets in free agency too for the forwards.

Just wait for Casey to develop and see where Luke/Nemec and the rest of the defense is at when he’s ready.
agreed on casey. and then those others in the other category as well. i doubt foote has much value at the moment given it appears he came back from a significant injury, just to reinjure himself right away. so essentially a full year away from developing at a ripe age. i think siegenthaler would have more value than bahl, and i prefer bahl to him personally all things considered - i would definitely have him on the table in your specified positions of acquisition. in fact, i think calgary would have interest in a guy like that with term at an okay number at a good age. then don't have to go into the whole UFA shitshow.
 

MasterofGrond

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Feb 13, 2009
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Yeah it's 1000% win now. Aside from Nemec and Luke, the entire core is in their prime win-now years. Waiting 3-5 years would already take you out of the prime window for a lot of these guys.

This season was a massive missed opportunity for so many reasons and it will be a complete failure if they don't go all-in over the next couple of seasons.

That's part of the reason why I think the 1st round pick is being moved for an impact NHL player in their prime right now.
No one is sgguesting waiting 3-5 years to be trying to compete. But trading Casey for immediate help next year is the type of move teams like the Lightning and Knights make, trying to squeeze out more from an aging core. The Devils have the luxury of being able to reasonably compete over the next 5 years. They can get the house in order right now, see whether 22-23 or 23-24 was the fluke, and then take the big swing.
 
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