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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

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Rhodes 81 said:
I could see a lot of the moves coming down to how secure Fitz feels in his job. If he thinks he's done without a great year next season, he may choose to shoot for the stars at the cost of long-term flexibility. Going for a signing like Hanifin in addition to trading for a "big game" goalie and filing out the forwards (including at least 1 top-6er) is something you do if you're trying to maximize next year and accept you're going to have to start selling guys back off after that.
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I hope that's not the case... I think we still have to build properly and not worry about some perceived "window" or timeline or job security.

I don't think this team is built right today...not that the foundation is bad it's just so incomplete that shooting for the stars right now is just the wrong move.

I think 2023 gave everyone delusions of grandeur that need to be walked back.
 
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JimEIV said:
Fair points on Chychrun...and he doesn't kill penalties... I still think he's a more well rounded defender than your giving him credit for.

But I'm listening...

What are you saying a Holtz for Pettersson...a Bahl for Pettersson?

Bahl would seemingly have to go?
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I don't actually think he's that bad, but I don't really rate him defensively and if you want get the most out of Chychrun he needs offensive minutes he simply won't get with NJ. He is 5th out of Ottawa's 7 regular defenseman in xG%, driven mostly on the xGA side of the ledger, FWIW.

I think it would be Holtz+ or Casey+, or even Holtz + Casey for Pettersson (caveat here is extension is agreed upon). I think that is quite pricey, even an overpay (and I like Holtz!) but I think the writing is kinda on the wall for those guys in the organization. No one in the org seems to believe in Holtz whatsoever. Fitz publicly called him out. I would keep him for cheap scoring depth, but he is also clearly one of their obvious trade chips. Casey has been very promising in college, but again, an offensive defenseman who isn't going to get offensive minutes in NJ.

I've said before I would try to keep Bahl. Injuries can and will happen again. Even if he or Siegs starts as the 7D, they will rotate in and get a lot of games. Bahl had pretty good defensive metrics despite the gaffes and I think there is more potential there to become real top-four guy. Even if he only is a 7D, he's cheap and makes about what you'd be paying for one anyway.
 
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I guess we missed on both Graf and Quillan eh? Wendt was an over-ager in the NCAA this year.

Quinn Hutson is available........... :-)

Not sure who is left in the top of the NCAA and CHL FA pool.

As for D, we could use a solid LD - Skjei would be amazing. We don't need two of them. I wish we could carry 8 D, and rotate them in from #4-8. I wish NHL rosters would go to 25, so you can have 8 D and 15 forwards.
 
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bossram said:
I don't actually think he's that bad, but I don't really rate him defensively and if you want get the most out of Chychrun he needs offensive minutes he simply won't get with NJ. He is 5th out of Ottawa's 7 regular defenseman in xG%, driven mostly on the xGA side of the ledger, FWIW.

I think it would be Holtz+ or Casey+, or even Holtz + Casey for Pettersson (caveat here is extension is agreed upon). I think that is quite pricey, even an overpay (and I like Holtz!) but I think the writing is kinda on the wall for those guys in the organization. No one in the org seems to believe in Holtz whatsoever. Fitz publicly called him out. I would keep him for cheap scoring depth, but he is also clearly one of their obvious trade chips. Casey has been very promising in college, but again, an offensive defenseman who isn't going to get offensive minutes in NJ.

I've said before I would try to keep Bahl. Injuries can and will happen again. Even if he or Siegs starts as the 7D, they will rotate in and get a lot of games. Bahl had pretty good defensive metrics despite the gaffes and I think there is more potential there to become real top-four guy. Even if he only is a 7D, he's cheap and makes about what you'd be paying for one anyway.
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I don't really like hearing Casey's name in trade talks... it's more emotional than logical on my part but I hate the idea of moving away from that kid before we ever get to know him.
 
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JimEIV said:
I don't really like hearing Casey's name in trade talks... it's more emotional than logical on my part but I hate the idea of moving away from that kid before we ever get to know him.
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I think he's very talented and was a great draft pick. Ultimately though he has to be a trade chip to improve now. I think we can see there is no path to offensive minutes for him with Dougie, Luke, and Nemec in the fold.
 
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JimEIV said:
17-18 Butcher was some of the most silly protected minutes ever for NJ Dman

In Even Strength TOI the guy was 8th among our not so good defense with 13:22...Dalton Prout averaged the same amount of ES Time....Micro Mueller averaged a full minute more and he wasn't a real NHL player.

The dude had one of the most ridiculous Ozone/Dzone starts splits I've ever seen in NJ with 76.9 offensive zone starts. I have never seen anyone that high over 81 games here... I doubt there ever has been. Short stints perhaps but not 81 games.

17-18 Butcher wasn't a real defenseman....he was like a specialty utility player used very specifically....and in no way could take a real regular shift without ridiculous protection.
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I posted the listed because Martin topped it, and Oduya was on it. It was really about Martin.

I’m not interested in debating Butcher. GAR is a cruel mistress and doesn’t care about usage, it’s very results oriented. I wasn’t suggesting it peers into these players’ souls and takes a full account of their entire worth.

I will say while sheltered (and very productive) in 2017-18, Butcher was 2nd pair defender in 2018-19, his responsibilities increased, and the results when he was on the ice were surprisingly very good.

You’re free to not like that list.

My response was to point out the absolute hilarity of how weak we were on defense since 2007-08.

Granted it’s hard for defensemen to get points when your 26th-30th in Goal For, but the defense contributed a lot to our low rank in those the years.

You need offense, production and transition from the blueline, you can’t win without it.
 
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Dougie didnt play 2 seasons out of three mostly. At least normally. After next year he is tradable. After next 2 years he is very tradable. Casey easily can develop two years in AHL if we need to. If he is good enough to play in NHL like Nemec - its not a "problem" at all.
 
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JimEIV said:
They really should just trade him... he's in an unfortunate situation... too much youth and he's the least compelling of the youth.

It's unfortunate for us too...we don't have anyone like him. Of the youth he's obviously our best PKer and the most sound defensively at this stage of the game... I know that will bother some but it's absolutely true..

4 hours to break my fast.... I'm getting a little punchy.
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I like Bahl. I wish he'd be a bit more physical given his stature but he's still relatively young and inexperienced as you've noted. He is a bit inconsistent. I'm not sure if he's better defensively than Nemec. I'd like to think Bahl has a future with he team.
 
bossram said:
I think he's very talented and was a great draft pick. Ultimately though he has to be a trade chip to improve now. I think we can see there is no path to offensive minutes for him with Dougie, Luke, and Nemec in the fold.
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Absolutely he does not "have to be" a trade chip. You forget that we have some stop-gap in our top 6 on defense. We need something in the pipeline to replace them. Casey, like it or not, is our #1 prospect right now. You don't just trade those. Carolina had Nikishin and Morrow and kept them and still got better.
 
Do the Devils have enough depth to trade Casey? Their D prospects are extremely thin.
 
would anyone take tatar back for a lesser role than his last roundabout? fitz wanted to bring him back this season, so maybe he revisits?
 
forceten said:
Absolutely he does not "have to be" a trade chip. You forget that we have some stop-gap in our top 6 on defense. We need something in the pipeline to replace them. Casey, like it or not, is our #1 prospect right now. You don't just trade those. Carolina had Nikishin and Morrow and kept them and still got better.
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Everyone agrees the Devils' blueline needs to improve defensively. There are already three defensemen on the roster who are going to eat up the available offensive and PP minutes.

No, Casey doesn't "have" to be traded. But given that the Devils are in win-now mode, need a roster upgrade, that Casey is a valuable piece, and Casey will not have a clear role for himself in the short or medium-term, he is an obvious trade piece.

Most of Carolina's blueline is going UFA either this year or next year. There are obvious spots for Niskishin and Morrow to take. There was a clear progression for them. Casey isn't going to be the hard matchup guy with Marino, and he isn't going to be a PP guy ahead of Dougie or Luke. And there's Nemec competing for PP time as well. Very limited spots for him in the future.

Vegas trades all their prospects and picks and don't seem to think twice about it. It's worked out for them!
 
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Guadana said:
Dougie didnt play 2 seasons out of three mostly. At least normally. After next year he is tradable. After next 2 years he is very tradable. Casey easily can develop two years in AHL if we need to. If he is good enough to play in NHL like Nemec - its not a "problem" at all.
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Sure. But the Devils are in Cup contention mode and also need upgrades in those current seasons where Casey is supposedly in the AHL.

Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
Chychrun is a guy I have had my eye on for awhile. I really like his game.
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Not really a fan and I don't think he fits the Devils' need.
 
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The Devils clearly have a leardership issue, and I don't think it's unfair to question whether that issue is 100% coaching or also includes the guys inside of the locker room.
 
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