Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

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Eggtimer

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This is what will piss me off to no end IF we lose out on Meier .( We are getting him so it’s a moot point but in the very very very unlikely , minuscule chance ….)

If the eventual cost of Meier is not ridiculous , I will lose my shit on Fitz for being too conservative (notice my correct usage of “too” vs “to” ).


I view the use of asstets as - its all relative. We have tons of assets. Us giving up assets like a Holtz is nowhere as near as a hit to future of the franchise as say Tampa (or another team with shit prospect pool) . It’s like real life . Me spending $1000 on a ticket for an NHL game would be a kick in the nuts financially . A multimillionaire… it’s a drop in the bucket. There is benefit presently and in the future in assuring we land Meier.

I say go for it and if your NJ , offer what is needed to get a deal done . Of course , you try to minimize the cost as much as you possibly can , but at the end of the day , don’t lose out on acquiring the player by worrying about losing a player like Sharangovich , who is far far easier to replace than a 26 year old power forward , line driving , shot generating , 50 goal potential stud that’s a perfect fit for us. Plus the situation we are in with us being a top 5 team , with the ability to add Meier without subtracting our current roster (besides maybe Sharanhovich, possibly not losing a single piece of our current roster ).
Get ‘er done Fitz.
 
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Billdo

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Bratt's skating was an obvious strength when he first suited up for the Devil's in 2017 in the Traverse City prospect game and that continued into the preseason.

Mercer would've been a top 10 pick with Bratt's natural skating ability...maybe higher.

My personal opinion is players can't improve their skating all that much. That's not to say they can't improve...but I personally have never seen a slower guy become a fast guy...I see it more that a player can improve a couple of levels...so a "5" could become a "7" but they'll never be a "9" or "10".... someone like McDavid or Scott Niedermeyer is just born with a natural gift.

Mercer's only knock in his draft year was his skating... it's not a hindrance but he'll never be as quick and shifty as Bratt.
And that's fine bc Mercers skating is good enough while Bratts is elite. Questioning the ability between the two is insane if you actually watch them both. Thankfully you didn't.
 

FascinationStreet

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I was going to take the week off from NHL hockey but then Horvat was traded and the amount of negativity from Devils fans on social media and the blogosphere really concerned me.

Look, I understand that many NJ fans are frustrated after a tough decade, to say the least. But the prevailing negativity among Devils fans to current management is very concerning to me. It wasn't so many months ago that Tom Fitzgerald enjoyed an absolutely outstanding off-season -- addressing three major needs with Marino, Vanecek and Palat while giving up absolutely nothing of value -- and Devils fans were calling for his head. The fact that Fitzgerald wasn't willing to mortgage the team's long-term future for a big name who didn't fill a major organizational need was a strength of the Devils off-season, not a weakness.

It's now just January and the Devils have the third best record in the entire NHL, a top-three prospect pool in the entire NHL, the brightest young star in the NHL in Jack Hughes -- who is barely legal to drink and a legit MVP candidate already, and one of the youngest and most exciting teams in the NHL.

And yet, many fans are beside themselves because the Islanders got Bo Horvat?

Here are some salient points which should make us all cool down a bit around the all-star break.

1) With all due respect to Lou Lamoriello -- who it baffles me how he garners so much vitriol among groupthink fans -- he's making the right move at the right time for the right team. Look -- he gave up the Islanders runaway top prospect in Aatu Raty and yet another first-round pick in the best draft class in nearly a decade, plus a solid and versatile winger in Beauvillier -- all to get Bo Horvat. But the Isles are an old team without much of a prospect pool and maybe a year or two left in their chances for a playoff run. Lamoriello is also the oldest GM in the NHL and wants to win now. He just improved his team's chances to win this year, and if he can re-sign Horvat the deal is a win for the Islanders. Did he sell out the team's long-term future? Sure, but it's not as if the logic needs further explanation.


2) What Lamoriello did -- unintentionally -- for the Devils, was keep Bo Horvat out of Carolina. I can't tell you how much I've seen written by Devils fans about the distance between the Devils and Rangers (currently 6 points) in the battle for 2nd place in the Metropolitan Division. I don't get the obsession with this, because I'm more concerned with the even smaller gap (4 points) between the Devils and 1st-place Carolina Hurricanes. Tom Fitzgerald is a very good GM, and as such I think he's more concerned with what it takes to be the best team in the NHL than what it takes to be "better than the higher profile team across the river".

Carolina is a terrific, young team with one glaring weakness -- they aren't going far in the playoffs with Sebastian Aho as their only top 6 center. Because you can look at every roster on every cup winner for the past decade and they are all extremely talented with two top centers.

What the Bo Horvat trade does not do is drive the price up on an interior, scoring winger like Timo Meier. What the Bo Horvat trade does do is astronomically jack up the price on the one remaining top center who could be had in the current trade market, which is Ryan O'Reilly. Top 6 centers and top-pairing defenders always cost more than wingers at the deadline. Always. And I think we can guarantee now that the ability of Carolina to get O'Reilly -- both now with his price higher and the competition fiercer (Boston, Rangers, Minnesota, Colorado, Vegas, Calgary all likely in the chase) -- is severely hampered. Because you're not winning a Stanley Cup with Jesperi Kotkaniemi as your 2C, you're just not.


3) As they stand right now, the Devils could conceivably make a deep playoff run. But there is no doubt a player like Timo Meier would make them a lot better. The Devils are an elite team at scoring off the rush, but they are still below average when it comes to Meier's bread and butter, which is scoring greasy goals off rebounds, deflections, net-front havoc and power plays down low. Meier is also a great shooter, which the Devils could use.

However, if the cost of acquiring Meier is prohibitive, Tom Fitzgerald has to think about the long-term future of the team over the benefits of the right now. This is to say that Luke Hughes, Simon Nemec and Dawson Mercer are not on the table, nor should they be. These incredible young talents should all be homegrown, core pieces for the next decade. The Devils still have more than enough -- because Fitzgerald was wise enough not to make a panic trade for a Fiala or DeBrincat -- to outbid any team which does not make a drunken sailor offer to San Jose. The Sharks will certainly have great interest in Alexander Holtz, a good friend and former linemate of their top prospect William Eklund.

The Sharks are desperate for prospects at LD -- and the Devils have the strongest group of LD prospects not only in the NHL right now, but maybe in the past decade for any team. San Jose's top LD prospect is currently Artemi Kniazev, who would have no chance of cracking the current Devils top 7, which I'd rank as Hughes/Mukhamadullin/Okhotiuk/Bahl/Vilen/Orlov/Misyul. As much as (certain) Devils fans bitch about Okhotiuk/Bahl as they are getting their feet wet in the NHL and making rookie mistakes as rookies, either one immediately steps into the Sharks line-up and has every chance to be a long term piece of that club going forward. Mukhamadullin would immediately become that team's unchallenged #2 overall prospect behind only Eklund.

As Devils fans, we naturally obsess over our own team, but the fact remains NJ probably fits San Jose trade-wise better than any other team.


4) The New Jersey Devils are in a tremendously bright position to be an NHL contender both now and going forward for the next decade. The last thing Tom Fitzgerald should be doing is panicking. The last thing Devils fans should be doing is panicking. Fitzgerald is certainly going to try to improve the team at the trade deadline, and Timo Meier is obviously a target. But it's doubtful Bo Horvat every truly was -- the Devils have ridiculous wealth at 1/2C with Hughes/Hischier going forward. I'm guessing Fitzgerald was just tracking the market on Horvat, and probably secretly hoping Carolina didn't land him.

As for me, I'm just going to enjoy the all-star break and take a break from the NHL to watch some prospects and 2023 draft-eligibles. And I think we should all be happy with the position the Devils are in right now. It's been a fun year, and it's a harbinger of good times to come in the future.
praise be good sir
 
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kiwidevil

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What if SJ insisted on Mercer for an 'NHL ready' package?

Mercer, Bahl, Foote. +Maybe some pick

So no Holtz and no 1st.
 

Hisch13r

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What if SJ insisted on Mercer for an 'NHL ready' package?

Mercer, Bahl, Foote. +Maybe some pick

So no Holtz and no 1st.

Mercer at 21>what Meier was at 21

Now as I said earlier this doesn’t mean Mercer will end up being Bratt/Meier level as a top 10 wing but I’m also not trading a 21 year old who is already this good. You can get the deal done without him and you should.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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What if SJ insisted on Mercer for an 'NHL ready' package?

Mercer, Bahl, Foote. +Maybe some pick

So no Holtz and no 1st.
We’re really not desperate for Meier. No reason to part with a package that’s too painful. I really want him, but there’s a point where it isn’t worth it, especially without knowing what contract he wants.
 

Guttersniped

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I would have liked to have gotten Cirelli or Cernak for Coleman at the 2020 TDL, but guess what? Too f***ing bad.

Full-time RFAs playing major roles on team at that age don’t get moved in deals like this. Mercer’s too good and has too many years of team control to be traded for a year of Meier.

I’m a worrier by nature and I’m not worried at all about Fitz trading Mercer.

Not the type of RFA you trade. Plus Mercer plays center, plus he’s an impossibly high character/ intangibles guy.

To put that in context, in my dark nights of soul moments, I can sort of see Fitz trading for Josh Anderson or Mattias Ekholm. Those deals don’t seem likely at all, but I can see them, even if they’re dark visions I abhor.

I accept that l could possibly be wrong, because that’s how life works, though I can assure everyone I will flip the f*** out if it’s happens lol.
 
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MadDevil

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I would have liked to have gotten Cirelli or Cernak for Coleman at the 2020 TDL, but guess what? Too f***ing bad.

Full-time RFAs playing major roles on team at that age don’t get moved in deals like this. Mercer’s too good and has too many years of team control to traded for a year of Meier.

I’m a worrier by nature and I’m not worried at all about Fitz trading Mercer.

Not the type of RFA you trade. Plus Mercer plays center, plus he’s an impossibly high character/ intangibles guy.

To put that in context, in my dark nights of soul moments, I can sort of see Fitz trading for Josh Anderson or Mattias Ekholm. Those deals don’t seem likely at all, but I can see them, even if they’re dark visions I abhor.

I accept that l could possibly be wrong, because that’s how life works, though I can assure everyone I will flip the f*** out if it’s happens lol.
I somehow missed Ekholm extending at 6.25 million per for 4 years because at first I was like "isn't he on a pretty affordable deal" but then looked it up. Yeah, no thanks.
 

KovalchukFistPump

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I'm just not sure how Meier works in a cap structure that also includes an extended Bratt. If Luke Hughes pans out, we'll have to pay him in two years. Nemec will require a pretty penny at some point. Mercer will need a good raise. Guys like Sharangovich are good as gone once we need to pay up for the defenders and goalies.

We got some room now, but I'm a bit worried about the team in 2 years or so. You can throw caution to the wind and then just trade complimentary young players as soon as they become expensive the way the Leafs do, but it's just not ideal. Getting Meier might mean Mercer gets traded in a package when it's time for his next contract.

I really hope Palat ends up being worth it a "does more than what shows up on the scoresheet" way, because I see his contract as the main blocker in us easily extending Meier.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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I'm just not sure how Meier works in a cap structure that also includes an extended Bratt. If Luke Hughes pans out, we'll have to pay him in two years. Nemec will require a pretty penny at some point. Mercer will need a good raise. Guys like Sharangovich are good as gone once we need to pay up for the defenders and goalies.

We got some room now, but I'm a bit worried about the team in 2 years or so. You can throw caution to the wind and then just trade complimentary young players as soon as they become expensive the way the Leafs do, but it's just not ideal. Getting Meier might mean Mercer gets traded in a package when it's time for his next contract.

I really hope Palat ends up being worth it a "does more than what shows up on the scoresheet" way, because I see his contract as the main blocker in us easily extending Meier.

Its quite easy actually. Me (and others) have posted their roster construction. We can pretty easily fit both Bratt and Meier longterm at ~$8.5/year. We have a ton of money in (mostly) inconsequential players coming of the books this summer.

Worrying about potentially paying guys who have yet to play 1 minute in the NHL is just not something anyone should ever do.
 

Hisch13r

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I'm just not sure how Meier works in a cap structure that also includes an extended Bratt. If Luke Hughes pans out, we'll have to pay him in two years. Nemec will require a pretty penny at some point. Mercer will need a good raise. Guys like Sharangovich are good as gone once we need to pay up for the defenders and goalies.

We got some room now, but I'm a bit worried about the team in 2 years or so. You can throw caution to the wind and then just trade complimentary young players as soon as they become expensive the way the Leafs do, but it's just not ideal. Getting Meier might mean Mercer gets traded in a package when it's time for his next contract.

I really hope Palat ends up being worth it a "does more than what shows up on the scoresheet" way, because I see his contract as the main blocker in us easily extending Meier.

Palat won’t be worth more than that but we’re still going to be fine with Meier. It’s nowhere near the issue you think it’d be. You’ll have Jack, Bratt, Nico, Timo, Palar, Dougie, Siegs, Marino at ~55 mil for the next 4 years. Cap should be jumping at some point over that period. You can probably dump off Palat towards the end you start to need the money with Luke and Nemec off their ELCs. We’ll definitely need to fill out the roster with cheap shit but the talent of the core is sooooooo strong it shouldn’t really matter
 
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Devs3cups

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Its quite easy actually. Me (and others) have posted their roster construction. We can pretty easily fit both Bratt and Meier longterm at ~$8.5/year. We have a ton of money in (mostly) inconsequential players coming of the books this summer.

Worrying about potentially paying guys who have yet to play 1 minute in the NHL is just not something anyone should ever do.
Cap will also have gone up (significantly, most likely) by then.
 
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Devs3cups

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Palat won’t be worth more than that but we’re still going to be fine with Meier. It’s nowhere near the issue you think it’d be. You’ll have Jack, Bratt, Nico, Timo, Palar, Dougie, Siegs, Marino at ~55 mil for the next 4 years. Cap should be jumping at some point over that period. You can probably dump off Palat towards the end you start to need the money with Luke and Nemec off their ELCs
Yup. From Friedman:

2022-2023: $82.5 million (firm)
2023-24: $83.5 million (projected)
2024-25: $87.5 - $88 million (projected)
2025-26: approximately $92 million (projected)

More than enough for the ELCs.
 

KovalchukFistPump

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Palat won’t be worth more than that but we’re still going to be fine with Meier. It’s nowhere near the issue you think it’d be. You’ll have Jack, Bratt, Nico, Timo, Palar, Dougie, Siegs, Marino at ~55 mil for the next 4 years. Cap should be jumping at some point over that period. You can probably dump off Palat towards the end you start to need the money with Luke and Nemec off their ELCs
Summer of 2025 is where I'm eyeing. Vanecek will be coming off his deal and would either command a big raise or need to be replaced with someone who will probably be expensive as well. Luke Hughes will be a RFA, unless they go against bringing him up at the end of this year. Mercer will need a big raise by then. And you probably won't want to keep the Bottom 6 on ELCs or league min only.

I guess we probably go with bridge deals for Mercer, Hughes, and Nemec to keep their cap values lower until we need to get rid of Palat?
 

Hisch13r

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Summer of 2025 is where I'm eyeing. Vanecek will be coming off his deal and would either command a big raise or need to be replaced with someone who will probably be expensive as well. Luke Hughes will be a RFA, unless they go against bringing him up at the end of this year. Mercer will need a big raise by then. And you probably won't want to keep the Bottom 6 on ELCs or league min only.

I guess we probably go with bridge deals for Mercer, Hughes, and Nemec to keep their cap values lower until we need to get rid of Palat?

I really don’t care if the bottom part of the lineup needs to be super cheap. The core would be good enough that it shouldn’t matter and smart GMs should be able to find quality depth pieces for cheap. I do agree things would be much more comfortable without Palat who already isn’t living up to 6 mil
 
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