Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[MasterofGrond]

The Clarkson contract absolutely one of the funniest of all time.

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

The Clarkson contract absolutely one of the funniest of all time.

And we knew it already before the ink dried

 

[Cheddabombs]

The Clarkson contract absolutely one of the funniest of all time.

The rationalization of it from Leafs fans and their media made it even funnier lol

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

I really wish we had traded Clarkson though. Unfortunately I think Kovy got hurt after the deadline - which is when the team tanked.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

Man I loved Clarkson so much when he was here.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Without even adjusting for the flat cap, that’s still 6.5+ today. For 7 years!

Incredible, legendary stuff.

Glad he secured the bag, though.

 

[Zippy316]

He made 3.5 last year.

I know what he made and his QO is.

He’s not getting that in arbitration though, which is likely why the Devils filed.



I feel like I keep seeing him absent in arbitration articles but Ryan Novo has him down for August 6th.

 

[FooteBahl]

 

[swiiscompos]

Does arbitration necessarily mean a bad relationship between Bratt and the club? Could it just be that the club isn't willing to give Bratt a big contract after only one really good year and Bratt accepts the bet?

 

[Nubmer6]

He had one of the worst contracts ever in the salary cap era.

And to think that apparently Columbus (who wound up getting him eventually anyway) and Edmonton both offered him about a million more per year than what he got in Toronto.

Ondrej Palat getting $6 million a year in 2022 compared to if Clarkson got that in 2013 after just two particularly productive years (one being a lockout shortened season where he was particularly ghostly in the second half or really second quarter if you wanna call it that) is a joke.

Ya, but he scored goals!

 

[Devils731]

Does arbitration necessarily mean a bad relationship between Bratt and the club? Could it just be that the club isn't willing to give Bratt a big contract after only one really good year and Bratt accepts the bet?

Not necessarily but it’s not a good sign that the two sides can’t find an agreement on their own.

Even if amicable, it shows the player and team likely don’t agree on the player’s value; which probably is not great for the player’s morale.

The current arbitration process is more friendly than in the past but it’s still not a positive sign that you ended up there.

 

[RangerDoggo]

Does arbitration necessarily mean a bad relationship between Bratt and the club? Could it just be that the club isn't willing to give Bratt a big contract after only one really good year and Bratt accepts the bet?

Historically, it's a negative impact. A healthy majority of players leave the team with which they go to arbitration. Fitz better start looking for trade partners. Meier and Robertson are pretty tempting.

 

[bossram]

...says a fan of the New Jersey Devils, a team that seldom led the league in scoring or was even close but nonetheless had an impressive 15+ year run of excellence because of defense,

Despite what most people say ("Watch the games nerd!"), the vast majority of hockey fans base their opinions almost entirely on the points column.

I at least respect Jim for just admitting it.

 

[MauDevils]

Historically, it's a negative impact. A healthy majority of players leave the team with which they go to arbitration. Fitz better start looking for trade partners. Meier and Robertson are pretty tempting.

Pretty sure Robertson has 3 years of team control left, so that's not an option.

I also think he's much better than Bratt.

 

[njdevils1982]

What are the arbitration rules? Is this so called “baseball arbitration” where the arbitrator has to take one figure or the other, or can the arbitrator substitute their own amount?

its something like this they'll pick a middle ground

 

[Guttersniped]

As we head into the final stretch, consider a few things -

Tyler De.llow had a post years ago on his blog that Swedes were the most underpaid nationality in the NHL, and Russians were the most overpaid. May no longer be true, but something to think about.

Matt Cane did the research into who gets paid what and found that low draft picks are continually underpaid their whole careers whereas high draft picks are often overpaid.

Agents should be aware of both of these things and try to push back against them, but who knows if they actually do.

When did Dellow do that, before he was hired by Vancouver in 2014?

Bratt does has a disadvantage going in because he only had a 2 year/2.75m deal, unlike other wingers with big QO offers from older deals (before the rules changed).

Draft pedigree probably helps, the Evolving Hockey model includes draft round.

Some of the discussion with Bratt, well the comparisons to our center and their deals, ignores the differences in values with position.

I don’t have my heart set on any number, I honestly don’t give a shit, it’s not like Fitz is going to go insane here. I would sign him now longterm because he’s just going to get more expensive next season if we do manage to keep him.

If it’s a one year deal then the extension has to come sooner than later.

If Bratt and/or the team the does the “we’ll discuss the next contract next summer, I just want to focus on my game this season” we’ll know we’re f***ed.

I do think his agent probably sucks, you don’t want to be the biggest fish of some local guy. Bratt should have ditched this guy already. If they don’t get a long term deal here hopefully he does. Move up to a top agency dude and Joakim McGuire.

 

[britdevil]

Does arbitration necessarily mean a bad relationship between Bratt and the club? Could it just be that the club isn't willing to give Bratt a big contract after only one really good year and Bratt accepts the bet?

It’s very bad.

Let’s not forget he’s pulled crap like this before.

 

[Mgd31]

Has anyone asked the question if Bratt's girlfriend wants to live in the greater NYC area? Could be what is holding this up.

 

[Triumph]

Despite what most people say ("Watch the games nerd!"), the vast majority of hockey fans base their opinions almost entirely on the points column.

I at least respect Jim for just admitting it.

I agree that most fans do, but A: he's not saying that, he's saying that the goals column is the only one he looks at and B: he's lying.

 

[The Devil In I]

Prior to 2011-12, Clarkson's biggest contribution to the Devils was beating people's faces in. Not even grit and toughness, just pure goon stuff. Having a 30 goal season was a fluke and we all knew it at the time.

Revisionist history. People were pretty positive about Clarkson for a while before 2012. Granted it wasn't much more than he seemed to be a valuable 3rd liner that could step up the line up if needed. True everyone knew his 30 goals was a fluke (largely due to Elias) and didn't want to pay what he'd get as a result, but otherwise wanted to keep him. He was definitely more than just a goon. Hell in 09-10 he was averaging over .5 PPG after missing some time due to the leg break from Chara's slapshot.

 

[FooteBahl]

Does arbitration necessarily mean a bad relationship between Bratt and the club? Could it just be that the club isn't willing to give Bratt a big contract after only one really good year and Bratt accepts the bet?

I read somewhere that something like 21 of 27 players who actually made it to arbitration were off the respective teams within 3 years…so yeah, it’s not good.

 

[Guttersniped]

Does arbitration necessarily mean a bad relationship between Bratt and the club? Could it just be that the club isn't willing to give Bratt a big contract after only one really good year and Bratt accepts the bet?

Yes, it will be bad a sign if they can’t even agree on a 1 year deal.

Fitz is likely nickel and diming him on a 1 year here because of the cap crunch we’re in. Which is bad.

In the end, if we’re willing to pay him a lot in the next deal then maybe we get him to stay.

He probably won’t do the team any favors in terms of team friendly deals, at that point players typically are more likely to give favorable deals to a different team.

The team burn that bridge with too much contentious negotiations. The message of “I don’t value you as much as you think I should” is simply sent too many times.

And there is clearly a disconnect between what the team thinks he’s worth vs his camp and that likely won’t go away in less than a year. So would Fitz even pay him the sufficient amount of a bunch a money next time?

We don’t know what the offers/demands were and I won’t guess at them. I’m going more on what historically happens with players who get this far with arbitration. Unfortunately it’s not good news for people who want Bratt on this team long term.

It’s not a sure thing that he’s a goner if this goes to arbitration but it’s real close to that.

 

[MasterofGrond]

just get a deal done fitz f***

 

[Eggtimer]

Yes, it will be bad a sign if they can’t even agree on a 1 year deal.

Fitz is likely nickel and diming him on a 1 year here because of the cap crunch we’re in. Which is bad.

In the end, if we’re willing to pay him a lot in the next deal then maybe we get him to stay.

He probably won’t do the team any favors in terms of team friendly deals, at that point players typically are more likely to give favorable deals to a different team.

The team burn that bridge with too much contentious negotiations. The message of “I don’t value you as much as you think I should” is simply sent too many times.

And there is clearly a disconnect between what the team thinks he’s worth vs his camp and that likely won’t go away in less than a year. So would Fitz even pay him the sufficient amount of a bunch a money next time?

We don’t know what the offers/demands were and I won’t guess at them. I’m going more on what historically happens with players who get this far with arbitration. Unfortunately it’s not good news for people who want Bratt on this team long term.

It’s not a sure thing that he’s a goner if this goes to arbitration but it’s real close to that.

It’s not that easy or simple as you said where Fitz is lowballing Bratt. Arbitration is always like this where the team makes a lower number tham what they are willing to pay and the player ask for more . The usually (hopefully meet in the middle ‘ish). Also , if Fitz thinks he cannot extend Bratt and has a feeling that he wants to get to UFA as soon as possible , he is trying to get the lowest cap hit as possible to get maximum value in trade …..
Fitz isn’t dumb. He is not going to low ball Bratt amd lose him unless the writing is on the wall and Fitz needs to switch gears and maximize the return for him.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Yes, it will be bad a sign if they can’t even agree on a 1 year deal.

Fitz is likely nickel and diming him on a 1 year here because of the cap crunch we’re in. Which is bad.

Even if we accept the premise that he's nickel and diming him on a one year deal, I don't think it's cause of the cap crunch but because he wants to keep Bratt's salary trajectory down, let that go up too much and then the eventually long term deal grows as well. Sort of ties back to what triumph said about Dellow finding first round picks are more likely to be overpaid for their career and later picks more likely to be underpaid.

In any case we have no idea at all wtf is going on so we wait