Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Some notes:

Thinks the devils should be willing to give up at most our first round pick (5 or lower) and a young player like Ty Smith or a B prospect and maybe a later round pick.

Thinks Fiala’s extension would happen quickly and come in somewhere from 7-8 million.

Fiala is a really good player.

Biggest con would be losing that high draft pick.





Some good articles that have just been posted.

Thanks for posting. Watch us hit the lottery and all this discussion here and these articles will become meaningless chatter.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Our offense is good but it's not great. If one of Jack/Nico/Bratt comes out of the lineup we're noticeably different and if two come out we're totally f***ed.

Holtz may or may not be another guy but we cannot expect him to be. His NHL stints have all been rough and even if he does become a star it's not going to be immediately.

I like Fiala and he'd be a very good player for us. If he had some term I'd do it. But that pick is very, very valuable and if we move it we need to getting a long-term asset back. Not a one year guy.

As it’s been mentioned multiple times here we aren’t gonna trade for him as a 1 year guy. If we trade for him and extension will already be agreed or we’ll at least have talked to his agent and be very confident an extension will be agreed soon.

Not a single person is talking about trading for him as a one year guy. Not sure why people keep saying that.

I don’t think I would comfortable paying 4 forwards close to 32 million between Jack, Nico, Jesper and him. Go after someone like Nichuskin and keep our top 7 pick in the worst case scenario l

I’d be comfortable with that and it would be like 30 million at worst.

Jack + Nico = 15.25
Bratt + Fiala is probably 15 at worst

The leafs are currently paying 40M for their top 4 forwards. It’s all about them playing up to their value. If they do that then we’re more than fine. Fiala is really good and should be well worth a 7-8 M contract over the next 4 years plus. It’s not often a player of his caliber at his age becomes available.

It’s only because Minnesota has 12m tied up in buyouts.

 

[StevenToddIves]

No one is talking about the Devils giving up the farm for Fiala. And I think after goaltending another top line winger is the devils biggest need after goaltending. If they don’t resign Severson than RD is probably a bigger immediate need.

Fiala would come in as the Devils best offensive player and we can’t just count on someone like Holtz to be that guy. I’m not sold on him and we aren’t even sure he’ll be ready to play in the NHL to start next season. And it’s unlikely he’ll ever be on the level Fiala. Fiala is a highly skilled winger who can score. Not the perfect fit but a decent one and there’s very few Tkachuks out there and they aren’t available. If they get a top line winger like they need that pushes other guys down the lineup into the 3rd line spots. Also not sure they need to acquire a whole 3rd line when we have a ton of solid young players pushing for spots there. Holtz, Zetterlund, Boqvist, Thompson, Foote, Kuokkonen. And Tatar is at the very least a capable 3rd line players right now. We need a top line winger much more than more third line players and it would be much more valuable. We literally have too many 3rd liners right now. Tatar, Johnsson, Boqvist, Zacha as well as the young guys.

The Devils are going to need at least one more really good winger to be a contender IMO.

Fiala would not come in as the Devils best offensive player. Hughes is the Devils best offensive player, with or without Fiala, and I'd also take Bratt over Fiala in terms of pure offensive skill.

Holtz is a very different player than Fiala, he's a pure finisher, though his passing is underrated and his all-around game is pretty solid.

The Devils do not have "too many 3rd liners", I'd say they have zero. Maybe Foote and Boqvist and Zetterlund develop into good 3rd liners next year. Tatar, Johnsson and Zacha are not good 3rd liners, because they collectively offer zero of the intangibles you would want from a good 3rd line. All three should be shipped out this off-season, though I wouldn't rule out Tatar sticking around one more year because he'll be really tough to move with that bad cap hit.

The very worst thing a still-building team can do is offer up the future for a very good-but-not-great player because they're impatient in the rebuild. The very worst thing. The Devils are going to trade this year's 1st round pick, which could be a potential great player -- a desperately-needed potential franchise RD like Jiricek or Nemec, or a forward with more upside than even Fiala like Slafkovsky or Nazar or Cooley.

And if things go south next year? I too have high hopes, but another goaltending implosion or major Hughes injury could lead to another lottery finish. Can we imagine if the Devils missed out on a generational talent like Conor Bedard or Matvey Michkov for... Kevin Fiala?

The Devils need to wait until they actually turn the corner until they deal futures for "nows", and the Devils have not turned that corner yet.

The last thing I'd like to add is that the Devils don't need "one more really good winger" to be a contender, they need a specific type of winger. The Devils were 3rd in the entire NHL last year in goals scored off the rush, but just 22nd in the league in goals scored off the cycle. We cannot understate how huge this discrepancy is. The Devils need a net-front presence and an interior presence in the crease and down low. Though Fiala is a good player in every offensive respect, he is more effective in space than in tight -- which makes him similar to most of the Devils offensive players. Though I agree with you Matt Tkachuks are not found on the trade market, why not make a run at Nichushkin? Even Niederreiter or Marchment would help in these respects, and NJ would not have to sacrifice major future assets in order to acquire them.

Look, if Minnesota wants to give up Fiala for a package of Mukhamadullin, Ty Smith and Pavel Zacha then I'm all for it. But signing Fiala to an offer sheet is a horrible idea -- Minnesota would take the NJ high draft picks and run away laughing. And trading a 1st round pick right now is equally shortsighted.

 

[FooteBahl]

Great opportunity for Dawson.

Surely, you mean Awesome Mercer

 

[The Wumpus]

Fiala was taken with what would have been our pick had Lou not insisted on keeping the 29th pick two years earlier. At least we have Matteau and Quenneville to show for it.

 

[MartyOwns]

I don't think Trotz is a fit for our roster construction. Maybe one of the best coaches in the league but I do not want to see us play a defensive style.

i would think anyone who has seen our goaltending would love to see us play a defensive style

 

[RangerDoggo]

Fiala was taken with what would have been our pick had Lou not insisted on keeping the 29th pick two years earlier. At least we have Matteau and Quenneville to show for it.

That son of a bitch goes back so long, man.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Fiala would not come in as the Devils best offensive player. Hughes is the Devils best offensive player, with or without Fiala, and I'd also take Bratt over Fiala in terms of pure offensive skill.

Holtz is a very different player than Fiala, he's a pure finisher, though his passing is underrated and his all-around game is pretty solid.

The Devils do not have "too many 3rd liners", I'd say they have zero. Maybe Foote and Boqvist and Zetterlund develop into good 3rd liners next year. Tatar, Johnsson and Zacha are not good 3rd liners, because they collectively offer zero of the intangibles you would want from a good 3rd line. All three should be shipped out this off-season, though I wouldn't rule out Tatar sticking around one more year because he'll be really tough to move with that bad cap hit.

The very worst thing a still-building team can do is offer up the future for a very good-but-not-great player because they're impatient in the rebuild. The very worst thing. The Devils are going to trade this year's 1st round pick, which could be a potential great player -- a desperately-needed potential franchise RD like Jiricek or Nemec, or a forward with more upside than even Fiala like Slafkovsky or Nazar or Cooley.

And if things go south next year? I too have high hopes, but another goaltending implosion or major Hughes injury could lead to another lottery finish. Can we imagine if the Devils missed out on a generational talent like Conor Bedard or Matvey Michkov for... Kevin Fiala?

The Devils need to wait until they actually turn the corner until they deal futures for "nows", and the Devils have not turned that corner yet.

The last thing I'd like to add is that the Devils don't need "one more really good winger" to be a contender, they need a specific type of winger. The Devils were 3rd in the entire NHL last year in goals scored off the rush, but just 22nd in the league in goals scored off the cycle. We cannot understate how huge this discrepancy is. The Devils need a net-front presence and an interior presence in the crease and down low. Though Fiala is a good player in every offensive respect, he is more effective in space than in tight -- which makes him similar to most of the Devils offensive players. Though I agree with you Matt Tkachuks are not found on the trade market, why not make a run at Nichushkin? Even Niederreiter or Marchment would help in these respects, and NJ would not have to sacrifice major future assets in order to acquire them.

Look, if Minnesota wants to give up Fiala for a package of Mukhamadullin, Ty Smith and Pavel Zacha then I'm all for it. But signing Fiala to an offer sheet is a horrible idea -- Minnesota would take the NJ high draft picks and run away laughing. And trading a 1st round pick right now is equally shortsighted.

Fiala has a better offensive track record than any of the devils current players but I do agree if he came here Hughes could be the better offensive player. Bratt has put up one really good season production wise which is comparable to Fiala’s past 2 seasons and not as good as this seasons. Fiala is also a better goalscorer. We could be very confident that Fiala will put up 30+ goals and 75 points.

Holtz is by no means a guarentee and will very likely never reach Fiala’s level even if he turns out.

The Devils do not need to get a whole line of third liners that’s just silly. What exactly are these intangibles you’re looking for.

I agree that we could use a player with some more physicality higher up the lineup but there’s no one like that available who’s good and it doesn’t stop us needing another really talented winger going forward.

I’ve been all about using our draft picks and being patient for a long time now but at this point if we get a chance to get a player of Fiala’s caliber who fills a need become of somebody else’s tough situation we should definitely consider doing that. The thing is that pick could turn out very good but, by the odds it’s much more likely we don’t get a player of Fiala’s caliber out of a pick in the 5-7 range. That’s just the reality. We’re obviously hoping to hit a home run with a pick there but more often than not that doesn’t happen. That is far from the worst thing. You just pulled that outta your ass. There’s so much worse things they could do than trade for a very good winger whose not that old.


I’ve also never talked once about making an offer sheet or trading next years first so I don’t know why you’re bringing that up.


While I agree that there could be a better stylistic fit than Fiala it’s will be very hard if not impossible to acquire a player of anywhere near Fiala’s caliber who fits that idea perfectly or that much better. Good first line wingers who are still youngish don’t become available very often.
We can still make moves and try to fill in with guys that fit this mold better but Fiala is a really good opportunity to add a really good player who adds another level to our offense.

Although the type of players we have is certainly a big part of the discrepancy in how we generate our it’s also because of the system we play and the style of game the team is playing. If the coaches wanted to they could sacrifice some of our rush offense for some more offense of the cycle but they want us playing the fast North to south game.

The guys you’re talking about adding through free agency aren’t on Fiala’s level.

I really don’t believe it’s shortsighted at all. It’s a rare opportunity that we may not get again to get a really good winger who should fit in well, would significantly improve our offense next year and beyond and who isn’t old.

 

[Eggtimer]

Fiala would not come in as the Devils best offensive player. Hughes is the Devils best offensive player, with or without Fiala, and I'd also take Bratt over Fiala in terms of pure offensive skill.

Holtz is a very different player than Fiala, he's a pure finisher, though his passing is underrated and his all-around game is pretty solid.

The Devils do not have "too many 3rd liners", I'd say they have zero. Maybe Foote and Boqvist and Zetterlund develop into good 3rd liners next year. Tatar, Johnsson and Zacha are not good 3rd liners, because they collectively offer zero of the intangibles you would want from a good 3rd line. All three should be shipped out this off-season, though I wouldn't rule out Tatar sticking around one more year because he'll be really tough to move with that bad cap hit.

The very worst thing a still-building team can do is offer up the future for a very good-but-not-great player because they're impatient in the rebuild. The very worst thing. The Devils are going to trade this year's 1st round pick, which could be a potential great player -- a desperately-needed potential franchise RD like Jiricek or Nemec, or a forward with more upside than even Fiala like Slafkovsky or Nazar or Cooley.

And if things go south next year? I too have high hopes, but another goaltending implosion or major Hughes injury could lead to another lottery finish. Can we imagine if the Devils missed out on a generational talent like Conor Bedard or Matvey Michkov for... Kevin Fiala?

The Devils need to wait until they actually turn the corner until they deal futures for "nows", and the Devils have not turned that corner yet.

The last thing I'd like to add is that the Devils don't need "one more really good winger" to be a contender, they need a specific type of winger. The Devils were 3rd in the entire NHL last year in goals scored off the rush, but just 22nd in the league in goals scored off the cycle. We cannot understate how huge this discrepancy is. The Devils need a net-front presence and an interior presence in the crease and down low. Though Fiala is a good player in every offensive respect, he is more effective in space than in tight -- which makes him similar to most of the Devils offensive players. Though I agree with you Matt Tkachuks are not found on the trade market, why not make a run at Nichushkin? Even Niederreiter or Marchment would help in these respects, and NJ would not have to sacrifice major future assets in order to acquire them.

Look, if Minnesota wants to give up Fiala for a package of Mukhamadullin, Ty Smith and Pavel Zacha then I'm all for it. But signing Fiala to an offer sheet is a horrible idea -- Minnesota would take the NJ high draft picks and run away laughing. And trading a 1st round pick right now is equally shortsighted.

I agree with all of this.
Id rather have (potentially )all of Nichushkin Neiderrieder Jiricek than Fiala .
Its a no brainer. Yes Fiala is an exciting and very good player but he’s not exactly what we need and his cost would still come at a hefty price tag even if the Wild are somewhat forced to move him.
Id prefer to construct a better all around roster than adding one winger.

Holtz for Fiala is more interesting though. It’s tricky to know what to do if Hotz would be enough to get Fiala. I don’t know enough about our cap space to say one way for certain . If gettig Fiala would eliminate the chance of building a good third line , defensive RHD , and a goalie … then I think I’d have to pass.
However , maybe we can add Fiala and eventually weed out Johnson Tatar Zacha and have enough room to sign a Nichushkin and Lybushkin and a goalie? I dont know. I just know it’s way more important for nkw to get a good goalie , a RHD , and some good “heavier “ forwards than a top 6 winger

 

[Zippy316]

Given Holtz's age, PPG in the AHL is very good. Being 1 year from UFA is not irrelevant because it lowers the potential market for him and what should be the price paid.

I don't see why we need to pay a premium as you are suggesting with that package.

I don’t see it as really a premium.

Holtz is the main piece with the most value. Kuokkanen is a good depth forward, but Devils forward group is jam packed. If they want to add heavier forwards this off-season, they need to free up quite a few players. Maybe Devils move back on the pick value, but that can always be negotiated.

 

[Hisch13r]

No Barry. Yes Brucey.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Fiala has a better offensive track record than any of the devils current players but I do agree if he came here Hughes could be the better offensive player. Bratt has put up one really good season production wise which is comparable to Fiala’s past 2 seasons and not as good as this seasons. Fiala is also a better goalscorer. We could be very confident that Fiala will put up 30+ goals and 75 points.

Holtz is by no means a guarentee and will very likely never reach Fiala’s level even if he turns out.

The Devils do not need to get a whole line of third liners that’s just silly. What exactly are these intangibles you’re looking for.

I agree that we could use a player with some more physicality higher up the lineup but there’s no one like that available who’s good and it doesn’t stop us needing another really talented winger going forward.

I’ve been all about using our draft picks and being patient for a long time now but at this point if we get a chance to get a player of Fiala’s caliber who fills a need become of somebody else’s tough situation we should definitely consider doing that. The thing is that pick could turn out very good but, by the odds it’s much more likely we don’t get a player of Fiala’s caliber out of a pick in the 5-7 range. That’s just the reality. We’re obviously hoping to hit a home run with a pick there but more often than not that doesn’t happen. That is far from the worst thing. You just pulled that outta your ass. There’s so much worse things they could do than trade for a very good winger whose not that old.


I’ve also never talked once about making an offer sheet or trading next years first so I don’t know why you’re bringing that up.


While I agree that there could be a better stylistic fit than Fiala it’s will be very hard if not impossible to acquire a player of anywhere near Fiala’s caliber who fits that idea perfectly or that much better. Good first line wingers who are still youngish don’t become available very often.
We can still make moves and try to fill in with guys that fit this mold better but Fiala is a really good opportunity to add a really good player who adds another level to our offense.

Although the type of players we have is certainly a big part of the discrepancy in how we generate our it’s also because of the system we play and the style of game the team is playing. If the coaches wanted to they could sacrifice some of our rush offense for some more offense of the cycle but they want us playing the fast North to south game.

The guys you’re talking about adding through free agency aren’t on Fiala’s level.

I really don’t believe it’s shortsighted at all. It’s a rare opportunity that we may not get again to get a really good winger who should fit in well, would significantly improve our offense next year and beyond and who isn’t old.

I didn't say you said the Devils should trade a first or offer sheet Fiala -- I wasn't just responding to your specific post, but also various reports I've read on line. Sorry if that wasn't made clear.

I would say that picking in the 5-6 range you'd pretty much better get a player of Fiala's caliber. Fiala is a terrific luxury piece, but he's not a franchise centerpiece. I don't see him being as valuable as Hughes or Hischier next year and, although this may be subjective, I'd also prefer Bratt. If -- hypothetically, of course -- Minnesota offered Fiala straight up for Bratt, my answer would be a hard no.

I absolutely think Nichushkin is on Fiala's level right now. Fiala scores more, absolutely. But Nichushkin is a better interior player, better defender and more physical player. I think it's pretty close, and Nichushkin is more representative of what the Devils need. Of course, I also realize there's no guarantee the Devils can sign him.

I think you undervalue Holtz. He's going to score a ton of goals at the NHL level, in my opinion, and that's kind of what I'm best at.

Again -- I'd love to get Fiala. But at what cost is the question, here. My point is that if Minnesota is willing to trade him for Mukhamadullin, Smith and Zacha, that's fine. Or even something more than that. But as a rebuilding team which has not turned the corner yet and still has core needs (RD, 3C, power F, G), the Devils cannot afford to give up their 2022 or 2023 1st round pick for him. I think that's fair.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

 

[RangerDoggo]

Based on what? Not that I wouldn't enjoy this but this is just speculation

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I didn't say you said the Devils should trade a first or offer sheet Fiala -- I wasn't just responding to your specific post, but also various reports I've read on line. Sorry if that wasn't made clear.

I would say that picking in the 5-6 range you'd pretty much better get a player of Fiala's caliber. Fiala is a terrific luxury piece, but he's not a franchise centerpiece. I don't see him being as valuable as Hughes or Hischier next year and, although this may be subjective, I'd also prefer Bratt. If -- hypothetically, of course -- Minnesota offered Fiala straight up for Bratt, my answer would be a hard no.

I absolutely think Nichushkin is on Fiala's level right now. Fiala scores more, absolutely. But Nichushkin is a better interior player, better defender and more physical player. I think it's pretty close, and Nichushkin is more representative of what the Devils need. Of course, I also realize there's no guarantee the Devils can sign him.

I think you undervalue Holtz. He's going to score a ton of goals at the NHL level, in my opinion, and that's kind of what I'm best at.

Again -- I'd love to get Fiala. But at what cost is the question, here. My point is that if Minnesota is willing to trade him for Mukhamadullin, Smith and Zacha, that's fine. Or even something more than that. But as a rebuilding team which has not turned the corner yet and still has core needs (RD, 3C, power F, G), the Devils cannot afford to give up their 2022 or 2023 1st round pick for him. I think that's fair.

You may get a player of is caliber if you hit but the simple reality is that more often than not you won’t. That’s just the reality. With that pick you’re getting a player who has potential to be as a good as Fiala but there’s a pretty decent chance they don’t turn out that good.

And no that’s just wrong. Nichushkin is a solid top 6 forward but isn’t close to as good as Fiala or close to as offensively talented. Fiala is a 30+ goal point per game winger who is fine defensively, creates offense and finishes offense.

I’m not undervaluing Holtz. He’s a good prospect who has some nice NHL potential if things go right. But he has some things to work on and lots of prospects don’t turn out. His skating is a concern right now.

One of the devils biggest needs rn IMO is a legit top line winger going forward.

 

[My3Sons]

Fiala has a better offensive track record than any of the devils current players but I do agree if he came here Hughes could be the better offensive player. Bratt has put up one really good season production wise which is comparable to Fiala’s past 2 seasons and not as good as this seasons. Fiala is also a better goalscorer. We could be very confident that Fiala will put up 30+ goals and 75 points.

Holtz is by no means a guarentee and will very likely never reach Fiala’s level even if he turns out.

The Devils do not need to get a whole line of third liners that’s just silly. What exactly are these intangibles you’re looking for.

I agree that we could use a player with some more physicality higher up the lineup but there’s no one like that available who’s good and it doesn’t stop us needing another really talented winger going forward.

I’ve been all about using our draft picks and being patient for a long time now but at this point if we get a chance to get a player of Fiala’s caliber who fills a need become of somebody else’s tough situation we should definitely consider doing that. The thing is that pick could turn out very good but, by the odds it’s much more likely we don’t get a player of Fiala’s caliber out of a pick in the 5-7 range. That’s just the reality. We’re obviously hoping to hit a home run with a pick there but more often than not that doesn’t happen. That is far from the worst thing. You just pulled that outta your ass. There’s so much worse things they could do than trade for a very good winger whose not that old.


I’ve also never talked once about making an offer sheet or trading next years first so I don’t know why you’re bringing that up.


While I agree that there could be a better stylistic fit than Fiala it’s will be very hard if not impossible to acquire a player of anywhere near Fiala’s caliber who fits that idea perfectly or that much better. Good first line wingers who are still youngish don’t become available very often.
We can still make moves and try to fill in with guys that fit this mold better but Fiala is a really good opportunity to add a really good player who adds another level to our offense.

Although the type of players we have is certainly a big part of the discrepancy in how we generate our it’s also because of the system we play and the style of game the team is playing. If the coaches wanted to they could sacrifice some of our rush offense for some more offense of the cycle but they want us playing the fast North to south game.

The guys you’re talking about adding through free agency aren’t on Fiala’s level.

I really don’t believe it’s shortsighted at all. It’s a rare opportunity that we may not get again to get a really good winger who should fit in well, would significantly improve our offense next year and beyond and who isn’t old.

Fiala is an excellent player and after NJ sorts its goaltending I'd be in favor of exploring a trade subject to the provisions expressed here about an extension being involved. I just don't think you put in a pool when the foundation of the house is broken and the basement is still sitting with three feet of water in it rotting what's down there. If Winnipeg calls tomorrow and says they'll trade Helleybuck for the first who would you rather have? I think it's not an obvious choice and I can see an argument for either one.

 

[None Shall Pass]

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

Based on what? Not that I wouldn't enjoy this but this is just speculation

That's what a gut feeling is.

 

[Mgd31]

Based on what? Not that I wouldn't enjoy this but this is just speculation

This was the same guy that said we were firing Ruff around Christmas or January. He doesn't know anything.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Based on what? Not that I wouldn't enjoy this but this is just speculation

It is definitely not speculation. He asked what he was feeling in his gut, speculation would require to at least think and analyze.

He could be spot on, or it could just be gas, or both.

 

[Unknown Caller]

This was the same guy that said we were firing Ruff around Christmas or January. He doesn't know anything.

He definitely has very solid information and has been the first to call a lot of moves. With that said, he clearly said this was a gut reaction and not based on anything he's heard.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Trotz hired.
Holtz and Zacha to Minnesota for Fiala
Nichuskin and Marchment signed.
Tatar and Kuokkanen shipped out.
Husso signed.

 

[My3Sons]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Trotz hired.
Holtz and Zacha to Minnesota for Fiala
Nichuskin and Marchment signed.
Tatar and Kuokkanen shipped out.
Husso signed.

Johnsson?

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Johnsson?

Kept. Placed on third line RW. with Marchment at LW and Mercer at C.

 

[Mgd31]

He definitely has very solid information and has been the first to call a lot of moves. With that said, he clearly said this was a gut reaction and not based on anything he's heard.

Yea I was a little harsh. I just don't think he's coming here.