Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Lou is God]

The Devils articles (the FULL articles) fall under "Subscription-Exclusive content".

Once you subscribe (10 bucks a month for me), you'll see the ENTIRE article instead of a short blurb.

I know that but I was wondering if you can just subscribe to their sports content or pick what you want to see and pay a package price - it might be something for them to consider. I might be more willing to pay $5 a month to just see their sports content.

 

[glenwo2]

I know that but I was wondering if you can just subscribe to their sports content or pick what you want to see and pay a package price - it might be something for them to consider. I might be more willing to pay $5 a month to just see their sports content.

Unfortunately, I didn't see any such option.

Personally, for my part, 10 bucks a month is nothing.

I would gladly pay that since we have an honest-to-god beat writer once again (haven't had one since TG).

 

[jkrdevil]

I’m not trying to pick on you, but why do people overvalue the impact an organization can have on a player this way? Makar is a generational talent. He could have gone to Buffalo and he’d still wind up as good as he is. He’s on a different level than 95% of NHL players, his path may have looked a bit different, maybe even been slightly delayed in a less optimal environment, but 100% he’d still be who he is today.

Nurture matters. I’m not saying Makar but puke be a bust here. He would be a top pairing defensemen, he likely isn’t a Norris trophy best defensemen in the game defensemen.

 

[Saugus]

I’m not trying to pick on you, but why do people overvalue the impact an organization can have on a player this way? Makar is a generational talent. He could have gone to Buffalo and he’d still wind up as good as he is. He’s on a different level than 95% of NHL players, his path may have looked a bit different, maybe even been slightly delayed in a less optimal environment, but 100% he’d still be who he is today.

I don't know, I feel confident that Arizona or Edmonton could have ruined him. Arizona would simply misdevelop him because everything they touch turns to shit, and in Edmonton he'd be the second coming of Mike Green, breaking defenseman scoring records but playing little to no actual defense.

Most of the time, talent will out. But some organizations are toxic. We aren't one of them, but Makar still might not be quite the same player here as he is in Colorado.

 

[Devs3cups]

There's definitely reasons. All I'm saying is that Mercer had a good rookie season. He did not have a great rookie season, nor has he done anything to make him untouchable. He is a very talented young player who I think will have an very nice career but I don't consider him a cornerstone of the franchise.

That said - his age, ELC, and production combined make it very very difficult to find a trade scenario where we get rid of Mercer but still improve. It would have to be for one of the unicorn players like Matthew Tkachuk or Alex Debrincat. But I don't think he's absolutely off the table in the same way that Jack/Nico/Bratt/Luke are.

While I mostly agree with your take here, the same was said about Bratt before he broke out this year. Nobody saw him as a cornerstone until he fully developed. He wasn’t off the table in his first few years.

Being over 0.5 PPG in your first NHL year is a great sign. After his first season, I have no problem believing Mercer could be a 70-80 point player down the line for us. He also brings a style of play we’re lacking.

My point is basically that’s it’s too early to know for sure if he’s a cornerstone or not after only 1 season. I think he’ll be though, as I really liked what I saw from his this year and his work ethic is impressive from what we know. He’s an intelligent player who went over 0.5 PPG in his first season with his highest level of hockey being the QMJHL beforehand. Future is bright and I think he’ll be in our top 6 for a long time, and a big part of it at that.

 

[MartyOwns]

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[ninetyeight]

Not me. I am one of those people that thinks "what would I do if I knew I would not fail?" The Devils should dare to be great and use the pick, A potential hit at pick 2 performing on a ELC/RFA contract is FAR more valuable than Tkachuk, Pasta, etc at a UFA rate. If the Avs played it safe and traded Pick 4 in 2017 for a "sure thing" because they were in a long rebuild they would not nearly be as good as they are now.

Yep! Drafting is the most important thing of being successful these days. If you're trading for already established talent, you're buying high and might have already missed the players best days, certainly by salary/skill value.

Think of Tampa, most of their best players are drafted and developed by them, Kuch Hedman Stamkos Point Vasi..

So find the right balance of homegrown and traded talent. For me to move a top3 or even top5 pick it would have to be a surething elite talent with at least 5 years left in the contract and aged so he fits the team timeline. I'm all about overpaying UFAs Dougie style, but giving up high draft picks can become extremely painful if that draftpick becomes a star player.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't know, I feel confident that Arizona or Edmonton could have ruined him. Arizona would simply misdevelop him because everything they touch turns to shit, and in Edmonton he'd be the second coming of Mike Green, breaking defenseman scoring records but playing little to no actual defense.

Most of the time, talent will out. But some organizations are toxic. We aren't one of them, but Makar still might not be quite the same player here as he is in Colorado.

The difference between literally walking into the playoffs with a very talented team vs losing 50+ games a year with a bunch of other young guys who are struggling to find their way in the league is huge.

Is Makar clearly a better talent then Dahlin? If they were in the same draft I think every GM in the league would have taken Dahlin. Right now every one is taking Makar.

 

[My3Sons]

I’m not trying to pick on you, but why do people overvalue the impact an organization can have on a player this way? Makar is a generational talent. He could have gone to Buffalo and he’d still wind up as good as he is. He’s on a different level than 95% of NHL players, his path may have looked a bit different, maybe even been slightly delayed in a less optimal environment, but 100% he’d still be who he is today.

I agree he'd be roughly the same, but on a bad team he'd be trying to do too much and with his teammates turning over the puck all the time he'd be defending too much which isn't his strong suit and as easy as NJ is to play against, he'd be hit more than he should be. He's in a perfect situation in Colorado. He's amazing and would be anywhere, but I don't think it would be quite the same somehow.

 

[Guttersniped]

What an immature take. What’s Nico supposed to do un-pick himself? Blaming the player for things outside of anyones control, like who’s available in certain draft year, and how they are ranked at the time is pretty ridiculous.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Nico, and his value rn. Just your inflated expectations. Sorry to tell you, and all the other elementary level fans out there, the world doesn’t turn out McDavid’s every year.

But what if it makes someone sad? We lost a bunch of games and stuff! Other 1OA forwards were better!



All Philly got out of Nolan Patrick this season was 4 games of Ryan Ellis, who’s 31, has lingering health issues and 5 years left on his deal.

Blues fans drafted Erik Johnson in 2006, in a draft right after Ovechkin then Crosby and right before Kane then Stamkos then Tavares.

 

[ninetyeight]

Is Makar clearly a better talent then Dahlin? If they were in the same draft I think every GM in the league would have taken Dahlin. Right now every one is taking Makar.

Dahlin was the better prospect, infact Dahlin might have been the best swedish (maybe even best european d?) defenceman prospect of all time. He was hyped to be the next Lidström, the next swedish franchise dman. I think he would have gone first on most recents drafts (except 2015).

He obviously hasn't reached his potential, while Makar has widely surpassed his draft day expectations.

 

[FooteBahl]

Unfortunately, I didn't see any such option.

Personally, for my part, 10 bucks a month is nothing.

I would gladly pay that since we have an honest-to-god beat writer once again (haven't had one since TG).

Look at you Mr. Moneybags. I guess you don’t mind paying $5.15 for gas either lol

 

[Hisch13r]

Not me. I am one of those people that thinks "what would I do if I knew I would not fail?" The Devils should dare to be great and use the pick, A potential hit at pick 2 performing on a ELC/RFA contract is FAR more valuable than Tkachuk, Pasta, etc at a UFA rate. If the Avs played it safe and traded Pick 4 in 2017 for a "sure thing" because they were in a long rebuild they would not nearly be as good as they are now.

The Avs were coming off a historically bad season. We’re coming off a year where the record sucked because of the goalies but the team played well. Comparing the 2 situation is bizarre

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

The Avs were coming off a historically bad season. We’re coming off a year where the record sucked because of the goalies but the team played well. Comparing the 2 situation is bizarre

Not really.

 

[devilsblood]

Dahlin was the better prospect, infact Dahlin might have been the best swedish (maybe even best european d?) defenceman prospect of all time. He was hyped to be the next Lidström, the next swedish franchise dman. I think he would have gone first on most recents drafts (except 2015).

He obviously hasn't reached his potential, while Makar has widely surpassed his draft day expectations.

And to the point of this conversation, how much of that is due to the organizations to which they went? I think it's fair to say a non insignificant amount.

 

[NjDevsRR]

 

[devilsblood]

View attachment 559290

 

[glenwo2]

Look at you Mr. Moneybags. I guess you don’t mind paying $5.15 for gas either lol

If it only took $5.15 to give me a FULL tank?

Sure.

But per gallon? F that noise. lol

I always just give the gas attendant a $20 bill and that's that.

 

[McDuffz88]

If it only took $5.15 to give me a FULL tank?

Sure.

But per gallon? F that noise. lol

I always just give the gas attendant a $20 bill and that's that.

Damn 5.15? That's cheap I just paid 5.95 last week lol.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Serious question, would the Devils be in ANY different position right now had they taken Makar over Nico? Even though, ya know, that was NEVER remotely going to happen?

They probably don't make the playoffs in 2018 without Nico, remember.

 

[FooteBahl]

If it only took $5.15 to give me a FULL tank?

Sure.

But per gallon? F that noise. lol

I always just give the gas attendant a $20 bill and that's that.

I checked my credit card the other day and saw two charges from Sam’s Club: one for $114 and one for $109. I thought they double-charged me somehow…then I remembered that I filled my tank that day too.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Serious question, would the Devils be in ANY different position right now had they taken Makar over Nico? Even though, ya know, that was NEVER remotely going to happen?

They probably don't make the playoffs in 2018 without Nico, remember.

I’m also not sure Makar would be “Makar” if he was on the Devils. He came into the perfect situation to flourish in Colorado.

 

[FooteBahl]

I’m also not sure Makar would be “Makar” if he was on the Devils. He came into the perfect situation to flourish in Colorado.

He would have been better since he could have been mentored by our lord and savior—Ben Lovejoy.

Seriously though, I can see that happening with Luke as well. We will hopefully be rounding the corner during his arrival…that kid is going to be a superstar

 

[guitarguyvic]

Nurture matters. I’m not saying Makar but puke be a bust here. He would be a top pairing defensemen, he likely isn’t a Norris trophy best defensemen in the game defensemen.

I don't know, I feel confident that Arizona or Edmonton could have ruined him. Arizona would simply misdevelop him because everything they touch turns to shit, and in Edmonton he'd be the second coming of Mike Green, breaking defenseman scoring records but playing little to no actual defense.

Most of the time, talent will out. But some organizations are toxic. We aren't one of them, but Makar still might not be quite the same player here as he is in Colorado.

I'm just not buying this line of thought. By this logic, McDavid should not have made an immediate impact and then become the best player in the world within short order, since he was drafted by Edmonton.

This seems like a combination of under-estimating just what kind of talent Makar is and over-estimating the influence a team can have on the development of players who are literally amongst the handful of greatest on the planet.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I agree he'd be roughly the same, but on a bad team he'd be trying to do too much and with his teammates turning over the puck all the time he'd be defending too much which isn't his strong suit and as easy as NJ is to play against, he'd be hit more than he should be. He's in a perfect situation in Colorado. He's amazing and would be anywhere, but I don't think it would be quite the same somehow.

A player of Makar's caliber is going to make his teammates better moreso than his teammates are going to make him worse. That's what you get with generational talents. Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, McDavid...these guys all started on piss poor teams and in a couple of cases the organizations were in disarray. It'd be crazy to claim they never met their full potential as a result. Makar is in the same elite category as these guys.