Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Billdo]

Makar would've been Makar anywhere he went. That's what happens with guys of his caliber.

 

[Japam]

Off topic question, but who even records the stats the analytics departments use in their analysis? Is it one consistent group of people or just whatever is given to them by arena staff?

 

[My3Sons]

A player of Makar's caliber is going to make his teammates better moreso than his teammates are going to make him worse. That's what you get with generational talents. Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, McDavid...these guys all started on piss poor teams and in a couple of cases the organizations were in disarray. It'd be crazy to claim they never met their full potential as a result. Makar is in the same elite category as these guys.

I agree he'd still be roughly the same player, but I don't think the team success would necessarily follow. EDM and Draisaitl have needed a lot of help just to lose in the playoffs. Maybe this past season with the development of Bratt and Hughes you'd start to see what they really could be. In any event, he's in a great spot in Colorado and he's a treat to watch. Hopefully Luke Hughes can accomplish something in the same sort of ballpark and it would be a fantastic result for the Devils. A guy that the other team cannot stop with the puck once he gets a sliver of open ice would be a game changer, even if he never develops Makar's passing touch or shot or vision.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Makar would've been Makar anywhere he went. That's what happens with guys of his caliber.

I don’t know if that’s necessarily true. He’d definitely still be a star, but not sure if he’d be getting the Bobby Orr-lite praise has has been. Being surrounded by a great team elevates great players even more.

Do you think if Makar started his career in AZ he’d be at the level he’s at right now? Probably still be getting Norris votes, but not necessarily looked at as possibly a top 3 player in the league.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Makar would’ve been Recchi’d on the PP, don’t forget. He’d be a stud, but ppg? Doubt.

 

[Goptor]

The Makar stuff is nonsense. There has never been a 1st overall pick needing two years to develop before making the NHL. His d+1 year wasn't anything that stood out either. Luke Hughes' season completely blew his away. The press would be all over him. Not just NJ press, all the away games will focus on the newly drafted 1st overall not being on the team.

In addition, he got drafted to a team who plays a 5 forwards system that benefits smaller defensemen that can skate the puck well. If he's on the Devils his main role on the team would be to dig out loose pucks behind his own goal. The worst possible job for a smaller guy like Makar.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

 

[NJDevs26]

Even he called the hats meh in his next Tweet lol, of course it's not his job to actually sell shit for the team

 

[glenwo2]

I checked my credit card the other day and saw two charges from Sam’s Club: one for $114 and one for $109. I thought they double-charged me somehow…then I remembered that I filled my tank that day too.

I never fill my tank....unless I'm planning on a LONG-ASS trip.

Even he called the hats meh in his next Tweet lol, of course it's not his job to actually sell shit for the team

Ryan is an absolute GEM.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Dahlin was the better prospect, infact Dahlin might have been the best swedish (maybe even best european d?) defenceman prospect of all time. He was hyped to be the next Lidström, the next swedish franchise dman. I think he would have gone first on most recents drafts (except 2015).

He obviously hasn't reached his potential, while Makar has widely surpassed his draft day expectations.

He wouldn’t have gone ahead of Matthews. No chance. A couple others I tho k there could be half decent arguments about but he probably would end up going first.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Nico was the right pick. Makar was a high risk, high reward pick that has worked out amazingly.

Makar would’ve probably been an elite likely top 5 dmen in the league anywhere he went but I agree with some that the perception of him, as well as his production, and his defensmen game all probably wouldn’t be as good if he came into a struggling team. Especially as a number 1 pick.

Makar wasn’t someone who should’ve been taken first overall. He was a high risk high reward pick playing in a weak league who took a couple years to develop but he developed really well and then stepped into the league at the perfect time in the perfect scenario to absolutely explode as a young offensive defensemen and thrive.

 

[ninetyeight]

He wouldn’t have gone ahead of Matthews. No chance. A couple others I tho k there could be half decent arguments about but he probably would end up going first.

I was gonna mention Matthews, but I thought about it a while and I think Dahlin was even more hyped than Matthews. It's easy to say now when Matthews has become one of the best players in the world. I can't really remember exactly the predraft mood, but few did argue that Laine should go first and there were questions to how his great swiss league performance translates to other leagues (since we never had a 1OA come from swiss league before?). Maybe the Dahlin hype felt bigger here next to Sweden, but there were definitely words like generational being thrown around. Maybe @StevenToddIves can remember this better.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I was gonna mention Matthews, but I thought about it a while and I think Dahlin was even more hyped than Matthews. It's easy to say now when Matthews has become one of the best players in the world. I can't really remember exactly the predraft mood, but few did argue that Laine should go first and there were questions to how his great swiss league performance translates to other leagues (since we never had a 1OA come from swiss league before?). Maybe the Dahlin hype felt bigger here next to Sweden, but there were definitely words like generational being thrown around. Maybe @StevenToddIves can remember this better.

I don’t think Dahlin was more hyped at all. I remember some analysts saying Matthews was better than Eichel but not as good as Mcdavid.
Laine was never gonna go ahead of him despite being an elite prospect himself.
And then if it really came down to it which I don’t think it would’ve Matthews is a center and that would have him more likely to be chosen higher.

 

[MadDevil]

How many people honestly thought Makar was going to be who he is now back in 2017?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

How many people honestly thought Makar was going to be who he is now back in 2017?

No one and I don’t think people are claiming to have known it (at least I hope not) He was a high risk high reward pick though. Had high potential but also came with a lot of risk which is why he wasn’t a candidate to go number 1.

 

[ninetyeight]

I don’t think Dahlin was more hyped at all.

Alright, like I said maybe it was louder here next to Sweden. Just like Matthews being an American probably got more hyped in the US. But I can assure you, the Dahlin hype was massive. Here's just one article I quickly found from predraft:

Dahlin living up to hype at WJC as consensus No. 1 pick - TSN.ca

One year ago, Nico Hischier used the World Junior Championship to propel him down the track toward No. 1 overall. That train left the station long before this year’s tournament for Sweden’s Rasmus Dahlin, the consensus No. 1 pick for June’s NHL Draft, TSN's Frank Seravalli writes.

www.tsn.ca

Anyway I guess the original point was that in no way would have Makar gone before him, unless you could see the future.

 

[glenwo2]

There was no guarantee that Makar would've been what he became had he been on any team other than the Avs.

Bet you he would just be a "good defenseman" on the Devils and never had taken that next step here.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Alright, like I said maybe it was louder here next to Sweden. Just like Matthews being an American probably got more hyped in the US. But I can assure you, the Dahlin hype was massive. Here's just one article I quickly found from predraft:

Dahlin living up to hype at WJC as consensus No. 1 pick - TSN.ca

One year ago, Nico Hischier used the World Junior Championship to propel him down the track toward No. 1 overall. That train left the station long before this year’s tournament for Sweden’s Rasmus Dahlin, the consensus No. 1 pick for June’s NHL Draft, TSN's Frank Seravalli writes.

www.tsn.ca

Anyway I guess the original point was that in no way would have Makar gone before him, unless you could see the future.

Yes but at the same time Dahlin is incredibly talented and this could be where maybe the environment and team they’re coming into argument does come into play.
Dahlin is incredibly talented and has Norris trophy potential.
The difference between him and Makar might not be so big if Dahlin is coming into an already really good Colorado team with the perfect environment to thrive in at 20-21 years old and Makar is coming into a struggling Buffalo Sabres organization at 18.

If things get turned around in Buffalo in the near future like it’s like they might I would bet Dahlin becomes a top 5 defensmen in the league. The talent is there.

 

[glenwo2]

Jesper is fast.

Holtz...needs work.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Jesper is fast.

Holtz...needs work.

Bratt really stands out among that group.

 

[Mgd31]

Jesper is fast.

Holtz...needs work.

Which number is Holtz, I am blind.

 

[Hisch13r]

Which number is Holtz, I am blind.

2nd guy. It’s Bratt the first 2 clips then Holtz

 

[Eggtimer]

Why would you want Motte over Bastian? That's not an upgrade at all. Bastian is fine here as a 4th liner. There's way more important things that need to be taken care of, and when they do the 4th is w/e.

Ya I guess the juice is not worth the squeeze on payig more for Motte than what Bastian makes. I just thought Motte woild be better defensively and a good option on the PK

 

[glenwo2]

Long story short (from the full article), it's going to be either LA, MTL, or back to us.

 

[Goptor]

Long story short (from the full article), it's going to be either LA, MTL, or back to us.

I know its a typo but I find it funny that the Morris Trophy would be a reasonable name.