Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[RangerDoggo]

If they fire Ruff (doubtful) Jack will adapt. He’s not so loyal that he’ll shut down. He’s not that stupid

 

[BurntToast]

I feel like Covid, messed up the time lines. One would think teams in cap crunches would suffer the most but, I can’t help but wonder if it was the Devils organization. This staff started last season with little to no practice. This was their first season together and improvements were obvious. Like others have said, Ruff did a good job developing the offense, but this team needs accountability. Lets start with the coaches.

I like Fitz as GM but I didn’t like how he was picked to be the Devils’ GM. I am curious how much “collaboration” goes into some of the decision making. Fitz didn’t even get to fully pick his coach. My concern if Ruff is fired, there isn’t a guarantee the next coach will be any better.

 

[RangerDoggo]

Dougie said, "Coming from a winning team...we need to create a better culture, a winning culture and there's a lot of things that go into that, to try to get to that and it becomes the standard in the room and the organization. We need to try to get that as quickly as we can. There's some steps we've taken but I think there's definitely more we need to take to get to that point."

Hmmm...People will read into that what they will.

And I was the bad guy for saying our culture is shit

 

[TBF1972]

Zetterlund and Okhotyuk both were impressive since their call ups and I think both guys deserve a real shot at a regular role next season. I wouldn't be surprised if both end up having a much bigger impact on this team over the next couple of seasons than many of us originally expected of them.

They should get a shot in camp, but without any trades, there might be not enough tickets. Only Vesey and Subban are UFA's and in Vesey's case I think there could be interest from both sides for an extension. I think Subban is gone.
The Devils have four RFA forward in Boqvist, Bratt, Wood and Zacha. Bratt is an easy choice for an extension and only if they are worlds apart for a long term deal and Bratt is pushing for a contract right to UFA, a trade is an option. Boqvist should get a bridge quite easily. Wood's health could be a deciding factor, but I expect him back on a short term proof me deal. With Zacha any scenario is realistic.

Without any trades the Devils could have 13 forwards and 5 defensemen signed for next season. Neither Zetterlund, nor Okhotyuk will have an easy way on the opening day roster.

C
Hughes, Hischier, Boqvist, McLeod

LW
Sharangovich, Johnsson, Tatar, Wood, Kuokkanen

RW
Bratt, Mercer, Bastian

Other forward options
Vesey, Zacha, Thompson, Holtz, Foote

LD
Siegenthaler
Graves
Smith

RD
Hamilton
Severson

Other defensemen options
Bahl, Walsh

The bolded ones I would be extremely surprised, if they aren't on the opening day roster.

I can see, Johonsson, Tatar, Wood, Zacha, Graves and Smith in trades.

I can see Wood, Kuokkanen and Smith starting in the AHL.

 

[TBF1972]

I think besides the on-Ice product the organization as a whole should very concerned about something else, and I am gonna relate it to my experience this year.

I have been a fan of this team for over 30 years they are my undisputed favorite of the 3 sports I follow. I have been an on and off season ticket holder in some capacity for the past 15 years (depends on my work/school schedule). I have always made it a point to watch all 82 games even if it is in replays or DVRed, I would read all the news and fan blogs, and regularly visit this site. Every season I would buy over $100 worth of merch. I did all this even with the miserable seasons of the past 12 years sticking it out through the whole season.

But this year...

After we were out by our usual date of Christmas and it turned to January, I found myself just not caring about the team or the season. And just to be clear, this wasn't a conscious decision. Its not like I made a statement like "I will no longer watch this crap team any more!" It was done completely subconsciously. I didn't realize I wasn't paying attention until the March 22 7-4 victory against the Rangers when my Rags fans friends were texting me. Not only was I watching Netflix instead of the game, but I had know idea they were even playing them. I would have never missed a NJ-NY game in the past. And only then did it dawn on me that I haven't watched a game since January or even visited any sites with Devils news. I then took stock of this year and saw that I didn't buy any new merch, wear my jersey regularly, and that even in my non season ticket holder years I still averaged 10 games a year. This year I did 4 and that was only because 2 games were free tix and I turned down 2 more free games because I didn't want to waste my weekends.

And this is why it's bad news for the future, if a die hard fan like myself, and I'm sure many people on this board, gets so disappointed year after year and start to tune them out they are gonna lose major revenue and a future fan base.

Again, I didn't abandon the team cause they have been crappy. I still love the team and always will, I'm just trying to show how a crappy product can cause apathy and uninterest. I'll still go into next season full of hope but who knows, if they are the same old team that they have been, maybe I'll stop caring by Thanksgiving.

i think covid changed our behaviour a lot as well and disconnected us from certain routines of the past. without the commute to my work place certain activities, which i did in the train, simply got lost.

 

[NJDevs26]

Didn't this place melt down last year about how losing cultures don't exist?

Dougie just pulled the pin.

Yeah it’s doubly damning considering he’s one of the handful of guys on the team that actually has been part of winning cultures for more than one year AND he’s one of the most cerebral thinkers on the team. In general players believe in ‘culture’ more than fans to begin with, though I’m sure one of the things that’s part of getting a better culture for him is just having an actual cohesive system 5-on-5 and the PP

 

[NJDevs26]

Would be interesting to read this year's exit interviews(all of them in article form like the above links instead of tweets) and compare the differences (aside from the obvious "players no longer here" thing).



Which means getting rid of Jack as well.

I get what you're going for but Jack liking Ruff kinda throws a monkey-wrench here. LOL.

The difference is Jack is still young enough to where he can be influenced by a different mindset while PK is what he is at this point - someone looking to enhance his ‘brand’ and social media presence. I just don’t get the impression PK needs to win tbh, for a guy who’s been around the league and on a lot of winning teams (though no Cups) he actually seemed content just being ‘big bro’ to the younger players, which is fine to a point and maybe better if you have more vets in the room to be the bad cop, but if we’re ever going to take that next step, I’m sorry PK can’t be one of the main voices in the room anymore.

 

[TBF1972]

The Flyers have at least been competitive for the most part until the last couple years…incompetent management which wasted some very good players sure, but trying and having egg on your face is better than just picking around the margins and being completely irrelevant for almost an entire decade. Vancouver made the playoffs two years back, got derailed in the short season and just missed this year but they’re close to being on the right track. They also need more competent management though.

The jury is still out on our management team btw…they’ve done more or less the bare minimum by piling up prospects and younger players after a ton of bad seasons, but they’ve still come up woefully short when it comes to coaching and adding anything from the outside. We know how much the goalies have blown up, Subban didn’t work and the jury is still out on all of our D acquisitions last offseason. Our most important forward addition in ten years was Hall, who just got turned into more futures anyway.

The last sentence is where we agree…the Devils concern shouldn’t be reengaging the die hards, our owners have enough of a portfolio to ride out poor seasons at the box office. Their concern should be in losing the next generation of fans to the Rangers and other quasi locals plus the NBA. You can’t engage younger fans with a perennial loser no matter how many cute YouTube videos and Twitter one liners they post. Not when a team with a bigger profile in your area has been an almost perennial contender, and it’s not like we have the biggest pool of potential younger fans to draw from to begin with.

are you satisfied with a playoff contender or do you prefer a stanley cup contender. in the salary cap era it isn't as easy to get from one to the other. washington and st. louis were long term playoff contender, who always seem to lack the needed, which reached their cup dreams. the other 4 teams winning cups in the last 10 years all were build up through the draft and gained superstars and depth from it.

the devils have a strong foundation at most positions. goalie (nhl and farm) and rhd (farm) have their weaknesses. at the other positions time could be the simple answer.

 

[NJDevs26]

are you satisfied with a playoff contender or do you prefer a stanley cup contender. in the salary cap era it isn't as easy to get from one to the other. washington and st. louis were long term playoff contender, who always seem to lack the needed, which reached their cup dreams. the other 4 teams winning cups in the last 10 years all were build up through the draft and gained superstars and depth from it.

the devils have a strong foundation at most positions. goalie (nhl and farm) and rhd (farm) have their weaknesses. at the other positions time could be the simple answer.

This is a canard and a popular argument here. There’s a difference in trying to win with smart moves and trying to win with stupidity. Obviously everyone would rather try to win with smart moves. But I seem to differ from most in that I’d rather start trying to win period as opposed to laying out waiting for every timeline and every player to hit at once. Even getting to 85 points is proving difficult, much less going from that level to actual contender.

It’s early but I like how Joe Douglas is going about it with the Jets so far, compiling picks and assets yet actually signing vets and trying to get better too. And it’s not like he had a lot to work with either, people talk about our rebuild being some kind of unique challenge, it wasn’t. I’d bet more on their roster in year three than ours in year eight and they didn’t win two lotteries either.

 

[TBF1972]

I'm not sure a player like Foote will fit in. He seems to be a very slow skater. I'd be open to using him and Smith as trade chips, though Ty may have really tanked his value.

I think we have enough in our system to offset both of these players.

i see foote exactly as a fit, because he offers something different than skating. obviously if he could skate as hughes, it would be even better. but he can contribute in areas, where our best players don't shine. the devils lack power forward types. i hope they hang on to him.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

This is a canard and a popular argument here. There’s a difference in trying to win with smart moves and trying to win with stupidity. Obviously everyone would rather try to win with smart moves. But I seem to differ from most in that I’d rather start trying to win period as opposed to laying out waiting for every timeline and every player to hit at once. Even getting to 85 points is proving difficult, much less going from that level to actual contender.

The Devils are not doing that. As example to start the season the starting D was acquired by UFA, 3 through trade, and 2 through the draft. That is waiting for all the players to hit at once?

 

[guitarguyvic]

That Dougie quote is something. Guess some of us who talk about culture aren’t the dinosaurs we are made out to be.

 

[NJDevs26]

The Devils are not doing that. As example to start the season the starting D was acquired by UFA, 3 through trade, and 2 through the draft. That is waiting for all the players to hit at once?

I’m talking more about the HF fan mindset, I do think Fitz understands the gravity of the situation to a degree as he acquired three of those guys last year, but he needs to do something similar with goalies and forwards this offseason. And he needs to prioritize better coaching with a more streamlined chain of command.

 

[JrFischer54]

if they fire ruff some of these kids will be on their 3rd coach. if results dont happen will we finally be blaming the kids? we laughed when predators picked up hynes but hes doing a good job there. ruff has had proven success at other areas hes coached as well.

 

[NJDevs26]

if they fire ruff some of these kids will be on their 3rd coach. if results dont happen will we finally be blaming the kids? we laughed when predators picked up hynes but hes doing a good job there. ruff has had proven success at other areas hes coached as well.

Let’s see which coach they hire first. If it’s another younger guy or powerless hockey lifer (a la Lindy) with no real say then I’ll be blaming management. If you want to keep all the control then you take the hits. If they actually hire a Boudreau or some other guy with cache and actually let them coach and don’t win, then yeah the blame’s gonna go on the players eventually though they need to improve the roster regardless. But management continuing to hire stiffs and middle managers would absolutely be on them, we need a cohesive system at some point.

And let’s stop this Hynes retconning, he went to a perennially successful organization that was a bubble playoff roster and he kept them as a bubble playoff team, he didn’t go to Arizona and pull a 90-point season out of his fanny. He hasn’t won playoff rounds in Nashville yet either.

 

[Azathoth]

I think you really need to read between the lines with the Dougie quote. This is definitely a shot across the bow for Fitz to get some more mature veterans on the team. I think he's fed up being the only one to chaperone the kids on all the museum outings.

 

[TBF1972]

This is a canard and a popular argument here. There’s a difference in trying to win with smart moves and trying to win with stupidity. Obviously everyone would rather try to win with smart moves. But I seem to differ from most in that I’d rather start trying to win period as opposed to laying out waiting for every timeline and every player to hit at once. Even getting to 85 points is proving difficult, much less going from that level to actual contender.

It’s early but I like how Joe Douglas is going about it with the Jets, compiling picks and assets yet actually signing vets and trying to get better too. And it’s not like he had a lot to work with either, people talk about our rebuild being some kind of unique challenge, it wasn’t.

washington and st. louis managed to escape the pretender role and raised the cup. i don't see it with this winnipeg roster.

a lot depends on ownership. if ownership demands playoffs, you can't build forever until you assembled a core with championship aspirations. i think harris/blitzer gave the opportunity to win a stanley cup much higher priority than a playoff appearance so far and the management activities seem to be focussed on this long term goal.

i am quite optimistic, that within three seasons the devils could be both: a regular playoff contender and a stanley cup contender. the second obviously requires good player development, additions to fix the goalie position and some luck. but around 80% of the foundation is there.

 

[glenwo2]

if they fire ruff some of these kids will be on their 3rd coach. if results dont happen will we finally be blaming the kids? we laughed when predators picked up hynes but hes doing a good job there. ruff has had proven success at other areas hes coached as well.

Having an actual Goaltender (Saros) kinda helps make the coach look like he's "doing a good job", though.

Put Blackwood/Hammond or whatever flotsam of Goaltenders we have in net on the Preds, and they'd be selecting in the top 10 of the draft.

Hynes is not a good coach.

He just has a better goaltender.

 

[TBF1972]

Ya, Pk is a righty, those guys are lefties. Could one those guys play right? I guess maybe but a Bahl Smith 3rd pairing next year is just not how I would look to go into the season. I'd let PK walk, but then bring in a solid vet d-first penalty kill type of player.

This is a bit much I thinks.

i would love to see siegenthaler/severson as a first pairing.
stick bahl or okhotyuk to dougie and give them easier defensive assignments.
graves and smith or bahl/okhotyuk as the third pairing.

i don't think hamilton should be played against the opposing top lines. siegenthaler should be played against opponents top lines. therefore i would break up siegenthaler and hamilton and play severson there instead. free dougie for mostly offensive deployment.
i prefer okhotyuk over bahl as dougie's partner because of skating.
graves/bahl provides more size and physicality. with (an improved) smith the offense gains some zip. graves would be the logical replacement, if siegenthaler is out or hamilton needs a different defensive partner.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

Subban is a RHD . None of our kids are play the right side . I want Lybushkin as a free agent or Manson or Gudbransen

if you can get them around 2.5m or less. don't spend more on a third pairing d.

 

[TBF1972]

He’s so into it he’s going to break both legs this summer.

you mean one leg and one prosthesis.

 

[TBF1972]

I can dream but...

Assuming Johnny gaudreau doesn’t want to resign in Calgary and is willing to sign in NJ and Ville Husso tests free agency....

Our first and second and third this year plus bratt plus Zacha for the rights to Johnny gaudreau and Mathew tkachuk. Resign both to identical 8x10.5 contracts. Sign Ville Husso to 5x5 contract as UFA

so the salary cap is removed?

 

[RangerDoggo]

Having an actual Goaltender (Saros) kinda helps make the coach look like he's "doing a good job", though.

Put Blackwood/Hammond or whatever flotsam of Goaltenders we have in net on the Preds, and they'd be selecting in the top 10 of the draft.

Hynes is not a good coach.

He just has a better goaltender.

He’s a better coach than the joke he was pretending to be here.

 

[Better Call Sal]

To those surprised by Dougie's comments on the culture and it needing to become a winning culture, we just won 27 games out of 82 and finished with 63 points. No kidding, it's not currently a winning culture.

 

[MachoDiablo]

Jesus, the "Jump...to Conclusions!" mat is out in full force after the exit interviews.

If we want to be real, the team had two primary goals this last season: work to compete for a playoff spot, of course, and to learn, through development and watching production, which of our young guys project to be part of the long-term solution here, and which ones are likely meant to be traded or otherwise let go.

Obviously, goal #1 went belly up the second Blackwood and Bernier both fell into the Springfield Mystery Spot, but goal #2 went pretty damn well, all things considered: between Jack, Nico, Bratt, Rango, and Mercer you already nearly have a very, very productive top two lines, and all of those guys proved, to my untrained eye, at least, that they have staying power to be here when the team is competing. Didn't get as much of a chance to learn about the defense, but that's also because the young guys there are just breaking through now, and with Hamilton, Graves, Severson, and Siegs there they shouldn't have to be thrown into the deep end too quickly.

Given that, it makes addressing things a little easier this offseason; you now have a firmer grasp on what kinds of players you want to bring in. Hamilton was a no-brainer signing, an All Star who plays a position of real organizational need, but now Fitz and company probably have more info to work off of that should allow them to make more targeted depth signings, or selecting guys based more on their style of play.

That, more than anything, will create the vaunted "culture" that people want to talk about. Culture can exist in a locker room or organization, but it doesn't do dick until you have enough talent to start winning in the first place.

I saw lamentation before about how few games the Devils have won in the last few years. Nobody's arguing how sucky that is, but honestly? Once they decided to go young and once it was clear they wouldn't make it, I really couldn't care less what their final record was, I care that the young guys they've brought up are developing. I'm glad that Nico and others are angry at the final record, they're professionals and should be angry at a poor record, but as a fan I just want to see progress made on player development and roster construction, and we actually got some of that this year. Now that they have a better idea who's likely sticking around long-term, I think it frees the organization up to make those aforementioned "targeted signings" that will compliment the new core.

Everything, though, still hinges on at least being able to get something out of the goaltenders next season. Even going to, I dunno, 20th in the league or something would be enough to allow for massive improvement on their record.

 

[Torts]

It's a stretch.....but I'd seriously be trying to check these boxes this offseason. See below.

- Acquire Filip Forsberg somehow (sign and trade, etc...)
- Trade for John Gibson without moving Mercer or Holtz (could be difficult)
- Draft Jiricek