Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[devilsblood]

I'm not giving him $6m a year, definitely not. He is not a core piece, and I certainly am not giving him that much before I see how he fits on the roster.

Definitely willing to go the Haula route, let him play out the year here and see how it goes. If he has a great year and prices himself out, thats fine.

I prob agree, especially with, as has been noted, Holtz waiting in the wings.

And maybe we kind of use Toffoli as a model for whom Holtz should shape his game? Can't say I really know Toffoli's game, but I'm guessing he's not a burner?

 

[OlfactoryHughes]

I prob agree, especially with, as has been noted, Holtz waiting in the wings.

And maybe we kind of use Toffoli as a model for whom Holtz should shape his game? Can't say I really know Toffoli's game, but I'm guessing he's not a burner?

Toffoli is a great mentor for Holtz…. Def not a burner, but greasy, finds open ice, shoots from everywhere, plays the right way, with less then optimal skating.

At this point, Toffoli kind of represents Holtz’s ceiling

 

[devilsblood]

Toffoli is a great mentor for Holtz…. Def not a burner, but greasy, finds open ice, shoots from everywhere, plays the right way, with less then optimal skating.

At this point, Toffoli kind of represents Holtz’s ceiling

I'd guess Holtz is a little more skillsy, but less physical?

Wouldn't be surprised if Toffoli is a better skater.

 

[pkbrux]

Wouldn't be surprised if Toffoli is a better skater.

He is not, he is a worse skater than Holtz.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[beekay414]

Wouldn't be surprised if Toffoli is a better skater.

 

[devilsblood]

He is not, he is a worse skater than Holtz.

Are you guys in the group that think Holtz is not that bad a skater? I tend to think he is well below average, especially in terms of speed and quickness.

But I do admit, I don't know Toffoli's game. I do know Holtz is just not a good skater.

 

[pkbrux]

Are you guys in the group that think Holtz is not that bad a skater? I tend to think he is well below average, especially in terms of speed and quickness.

But I do admit, I don't know Toffoli's game. I do know Holtz is just not a good skater.

Even if you think Holtz is a below average skater, Toffoli looks like he is skating in cement. He is able to overcome his poor skating, but it is bad.

 

[devilsblood]

What is a little too high? The ask from the player? Or some technical level?

 

[theoptimist]

I already can't stand the "under 9M" trumpeting

 

[Mgd31]

I already can't stand the "under 9M" trumpeting

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

So where we at with this? I don’t want an extended Hellebuyck unless it’s like 3 years.

 

[njdevil26]

What is a little too high? The ask from the player? Or some technical level?

I watched Fitz's interview and having the context of the whole conversation, it seemed like he was saying the arb cases are a little too high compared to what they would like to re-sign the players at.

 

[devilsblood]

So where we at with this? I don’t want an extended Hellebuyck unless it’s like 3 years.

How bout 4? Or maybe more likely 5?

$9x5 for Helle? So we'd be getting him basically through his 35 year old season. VV, Holtz, and our 2nd this year?

I imagine the consensus here would be no.

 

[njdevil26]

So where we at with this? I don’t want an extended Hellebuyck unless it’s like 3 years.

To me, we would have to send VV the other way and Hellebuyck would have to be okay with re-signing here 3/4 years between 7-8 per. Not saying he would be into that... but it would give him his best shot at a cup.

 

[devilsblood]

I watched Fitz's interview and having the context of the whole conversation, it seemed like he was saying the arb cases are a little too high compared to what they would like to re-sign the players at.

Thought it might have been an arb level.

Do we know those levels?

 

[beekay414]

I'm in the group that wants one of Hellebuyck or Ullmark.

 

[devilsblood]

To me, we would have to send VV the other way and Hellebuyck would have to be okay with re-signing here 3/4 years between 7-8 per. Not saying he would be into that... but it would give him his best shot at a cup.

So go high end of that deal $8x4. I'd say let's do it. I imagine Fitz would do it. He has to know Helle's going to cost at least that.

 

[njdevil26]

So go high end of that deal $8x4. I'd say let's do it. I imagine Fitz would do it. He has to know Helle's going to cost at least that.

8 mil is not even a big deal.

Hellebuyck- 8 million

Coming off the books:

Vanecek- $3,400,000
Schneider/Kuokkanen buyouts- $2,325,000

So it is essentially adding 2,275,000 to the cap.

Also the cap is going up 5+ million next offseason with Mercer being the only guy that needs a significant raise. The cap won't be a problem.

 

[OmNomNom]

is sign & trade an option for helle? can they sign and retain (to up their return)?

 

[devilsblood]

8 mil is not even a big deal.

Hellebuyck- 8 million

Coming off the books:

Vanecek- $3,400,000
Schneider/Kuokkanen buyouts- $2,325,000

So it is essentially adding 2,275,000 to the cap.

Also the cap is going up 5+ million next offseason with Mercer being the only guy that needs a significant raise. The cap won't be a problem.

So extend that term out. Would you do 5 years? 6?

Or conversely. If $8 is not an issue. And term is really the big concern with a 30 year old goalie. How about $9.5 x 4?

 

[njdevil26]

So extend that term out. Would you do 5 years? 6?

Or conversely. If $8 is not an issue. And term is really the big concern with a 30 year old goalie. How about $9.5 x 4?

9.5 I think is way too much. When I saw that number I honestly assumed that's his "Stay in Winnipeg number."

Also with the way Fitz is operating, I doubt he even approaches 8.5-9 mil. His message seems to be "you're going to have multiple chances to win here but you have to buy in."

When you let players dictate their contracts, you end up like Toronto with zero cap space on a yearly basis, multiple lineup holes, and no ability to plug these holes.

 

[devilsblood]

is sign & trade an option for helle? can they sign and retain (to up their return)?

They wouldn't retain for an 8 year deal.

Not unless we are giving them Nemec or something. Which we aren't.

9.5 I think is way too much. When I saw that number I honestly assumed that's his "Stay in Winnipeg number."

Also with the way Fitz is operating, I doubt he even approaches 8.5-9 mil. His message seems to be "you're going to have multiple chances to win here but you have to buy in."

When you let players dictate their contracts, you end up like Toronto with zero cap space on a yearly basis, multiple lineup holes, and no ability to plug these holes.

True, but 4 years is the bargain for NJ in this scenario.

 

[Rhodes 81]

FA hasn't started yet, we haven't made a pick in the draft, and I already feel like we could just hang it up and expect to compete for a cup this year. This is incredible.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I would not give Hellebyuck anything more than 3 years and I certainly wouldn't pay him $9+ million/year