Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Forge]

They aren't getting pieces like that from anyone just to rent him

And I don't think anyone is acquiring him with an extension in place. He is getting traded as a rental imo

 

[Emperoreddy]

And I don't think anyone is acquiring him with an extension in place. He is getting traded as a rental imo

And if someone does pony up a Nemec level prospect we simply walk away. I don't think anyone would, but we don't need to be selling the farm for this.

We can also kick the tires on Boston's goalies

 

[Bcap88]

 

[Emperoreddy]

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I was going to say I do think Winnipeg needs us more then we need them in this instance.

We can afford to be patient if they want to ask for the farm and they can deal with the fact he doesn't get traded if they do that.

Fitz isn't going to be the one to blink

 

[R8Devs]

I think Hellebuyck would be the better goalie for the devils next year but I really don’t want to sign a 31 year old goalie long term. If they treat it like the Avs did Kuemper I think that’d be fine depending on the acquisition cost (basically a rental for one year).

But Ullmark is signed for two years at 5aav which is pretty ideal and probably would be cheaper in a trade. Don’t want too many long term contract on the books for flexibility reasons and goalie is the hardest position to be flexible with if a guy is signed long term.

Lebruns latest article says the devils are fine running it back with what they have if the cost doesn’t come down

 

[Eggtimer]

I don’t disagree but I’m pretty sure Winnipeg will be looking for NHL players or close to NHL ready prospects in return just like they did for PLD. Who could that be? Wouldn’t be surprised if that was Mercer or Nemec. Can’t see us doing that but unlike the Meier trade I feel like that kind of young player or prospect might be required. I think absolute best case they value Holtz and want him, Schmid and then a pick and a lesser player from the roster. Maybe Bahl.

I think the only possible best case kind of deal I could see working with us is exactly that.
Schmid, Holtz (if they like him), Bahl, and a 2nd (or even 1st) in 2025. And I don’t think something like that is worth doing for a 1 year rental.
And I think they’ll want a bigger piece such as Mercer, Nemec or a siegenthaler or Marino.

For a rental ? Albeit a very good rental and what would be the finishing piece we need , but still …
Mercer Nemec Seigs Marino all non starters .
Fitz won’t create a hole to upgrade in net .
It would have to be what Fitz sees as expendable . Holtz Casey Stillman Gritsyuk Boqvist Foote Clarke Thompson Vilen .
And Schmid should be a non starter as well unless Helle comes with an extention . We can’t risk having rental Helle walk plus lose Schmid . VV would be the one to go .
I also don’t think there is that many teams willing and able to outbid us plus teams Helle would consider extending with .
I wouldn’t be surprised if we got Helle and the cost was something along the lines of Holtz and Vilen package

 

[Guttersniped]

Bad offensively, mediocre defensively but good PK guys kind of are available every year. I don’t care if he’s big and fast if it doesn’t lead to good results.

And I’m more than fine having Nico be our “faceoff ace”

You can name available 25 year old right handed centers who can match McLeod’s PK and FO numbers? Or just true defensive centers of any age.

Making Nico do even more defensive grunt work isn’t a solution to our mess of a bottom six. And it is a mess.

It’s cool that people here don’t care about face-offs, but coaches like having possession advantages in key situations, so they care about them.

We have no idea what’s happening with Hockey Canada, and something is happening now with the NHL season being over, so who knows what happens with McLeod.

I actually like Kämpf, it’s just rough to have not gotten a break in AAV for all the term or vice versa, considering the contract ends when he’s 32.

The two public models have McLeod at 3 years/$1,937,503.64 (AFP Analytics) and 3 years/$1,946,000 (Evolving Hockey). Nothing particularly unreasonable about that.

They also have Kämpf at 2 years/$1,776,023.03 (AFP Analytics) and 3 years/$2,192,000 (Evolving Hockey).

But his 4 years/2.5m contract is actually sold as a deal in an Athletic article:

The Leafs locked up the 28-year-old three days before he would have become an unrestricted free agent. They did so by offering Kämpf the security of a four-year deal in exchange for a slightly lower cap hit. Kämpf and his agent J.P. Barry were eyeballing a cap hit of $3-$3.5 million on the open market.

Centers are actually hard to get and prices are going up. 2m for McLeod would be fine, if he’s still on the team after this summer.

How the David Kämpf deal came together under Brad Treliving

The Leafs locked up the 28-year-old centre three days before he would have become an unrestricted free agent.

theathletic.com

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

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Yeah, I don't want an extension on Toffoli at all at the moment. I need to see him play here before I decide on anything. Hellebuyck news is pretty status quo and I'm pretty much agree with their thinking there as well.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I think ullmark would be, but depends on what Boston is looking to do. If they need to dump cap still, and he's the guy out the door, I think it's going to be reasonably cheap. But i also am of the opinion that both are going to be cheaper to acquire in terms of trade assets than most think

Problem with a NJ-Ullmark trade is that Boston would not want Vanecek back in return. They are not going to downgrade Ullmark to Vanecek just to save $1.6m per year cap. They would insist on Schmid in return.
Which leads to us having 8.4m tied up in goalie tandem and thats probably not workable, it would put NJ over the cap.

I feel that Hellebuyck will cost more to acquire but they would take Vanecek back and will eat 50% of Helle's contract for the final year. It will gives Devils more cap flexibility to be buyers again at deadline or even trade/sign a defenseman to play 3RD, if they want Nemec in AHL for one more year.

I'm all for renting Hellebuyck. If we have to give up Holtz or Casey, then lets see if we can add DeMelo to the deal.

 

[Guttersniped]

So I'd be curious to see if Fitz would change anything about signing Palat and trading for Vanacek last year. We have some reporting that his mindset was to try to compete for a wild card spot and maybe he didn't even expect to make the playoffs beyond that. Palat and Vanacek were both moves designed to help stabilize a young franchise where league average goaltending was a big improvement. Other moves had that same goal in mind like Tatar and Graves and even Siegs when they traded for him. Just a bunch of middle of the pack trying to get the team to be respectable moves. Granted you could tell he saw the future when he signed Hamilton to the big deal and to be fair he probably had to overpay a bit because NJ just wasn't good at the time. Now, the team doesn't really need Palat at that price to play on a third line. Vanacek is probably going to be a bit above average during the regular season again for Nj but the team has higher aspirations now. Vanacek is signed for a short deal and I doubt the team would hesitate to move him if they could upgrade the goaltending. I do think that Palat stays with NJ for at least two more years and we will fuss about his deal at the end of those two years but he can still make a difference in two or three playoff runs if he can stay healthy. Fingers crossed. Just amazing how things have changed in essentially one season. Albeit the folks saying NJ just needed league average goaltending were correct.

If we didn’t sign Vanacek then what are we doing for a goalie?

July 7:The Avs traded for Georgiev
July 8: Detroit traded for Husso’s signing rights and then we traded for Vanecek. In that order.
July 11: Ottawa trades: Matt Murray (2 year/4.69m), a 2023 3rd, and a 2024 7th to Toronto for Future Considerations.
July 12: Minnesota traded Cam Talbot for Filip Gustavsson
August 29: San Jose traded Adin Hill to Vegas for a 2024 4th.

Not sure there’s any workable alternative realities you can even unrealistically fantasize about for the Devils out of all of that.

And the UFA goalies were very unappealing (Campbell, Kuemper, Comrie) and Detroit had grabbed the most appealing one before they hit the market. (And Husso wasn’t really all that appealing.)

 

[MasterofGrond]

Even ignoring the paucity of options (they were bad y'all), being mad about the decision to get Vanecek is 100% monday morning quarterbacking for a season where the team was way better than even our GM thought we were gonna be.

Knowing what we know now maybe they could have pushed for a trade for a better guy, but vanecek was absolutely the right move last offseason knowing whate everybody did at the time.

And he was pretty good all season!

 

[Clam Jensen]

Ridiculous

Zito being ahead of him is absurd. I don’t care about their Cinderella cup run, the team he constructed barely made the playoffs.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Tom clearly wants another goalie given how he’s looking at the Bruins goalies and Hellebuyck. Swayman could be the one to go after due to age. But Ullmark is still signed for the next 2 seasons and is also a really good goalie that can obviously do work on a good team. And Helle, well he’s great, but he’s the oldest and his ask price is insane.

But speaking of his ask, Lebrun in TSNs Overdrive said that if the devils were to be the team to go after Hellebuyck and get him, that he likely could drop his ask down to a more team friendly ask.

Either way, Tom is going hard after a goalie and is looking to get a good one. The window is open and he wants to take advantage of it asap.

I wouldn’t assume this at all. You can be fully comfortable with your goaltending and willing to go into the season with it and still explore the market to see if there’s an upgrade that makes sense. As he said it’s probably a continuous discussion. Doesn’t mean he’s set on bringing a good goalie in or heavily pursuing those guys. Might just be making the calls and feeling out the market

 

[Captain3rdLine]

They aren't getting pieces like that from anyone just to rent him

Which is why Winnipeg will probably look for someone who’s gonna sign him right away.

For a rental ? Albeit a very good rental and what would be the finishing piece we need , but still …
Mercer Nemec Seigs Marino all non starters .
Fitz won’t create a hole to upgrade in net .
It would have to be what Fitz sees as expendable . Holtz Casey Stillman Gritsyuk Boqvist Foote Clarke Thompson Vilen .
And Schmid should be a non starter as well unless Helle comes with an extention . We can’t risk having rental Helle walk plus lose Schmid . VV would be the one to go .
I also don’t think there is that many teams willing and able to outbid us plus teams Helle would consider extending with .
I wouldn’t be surprised if we got Helle and the cost was something along the lines of Holtz and Vilen package

I absolutely agree with you. I wouldn’t do that but I think there’s a good chance that the price you’re looking at. Winnipeg is gonna want immediate contributors in return. No chance in hell those kinds of prospects you listed would get a deal like this done. There’s also no chance in hell we get him for a package like Holtz and Vilen.

There’s lots of teams with the needs and assets to potentially make this deal happen.
Why would other teams not be willing or able to outbid us?

 

[NJDevs26]

Even ignoring the paucity of options (they were bad y'all), being mad about the decision to get Vanecek is 100% monday morning quarterbacking for a season where the team was way better than even our GM thought we were gonna be.

Knowing what we know now maybe they could have pushed for a trade for a better guy, but vanecek was absolutely the right move last offseason knowing whate everybody did at the time.

And he was pretty good all season!

It's also stupid monday morning QB'ing...the options were shit last offseason and they weren't going to let Schmid play 55 games after he stunk two years ago in his first go-around. Even if they had it's not like the record would have been appreciably different, sure his splits were better than VV over the short term but he'd never handled that kind of workload either and it showed in the playoffs once the games started coming fast and furious, he needed that week off in the middle of the Canes series. VV was also worse over the second half once the workload caught up to him imo.

And if people do want to second guess playing Schmid more last year then why should we be looking for an upgrade this year?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Has the mascot tweeted anything yet today?

 

[Devs3cups]

Has the mascot tweeted anything yet today?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I like 96 but I don’t like confusing him with other numbers that end in 6.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I like 96 but I don’t like confusing him with other numbers that end in 6.

Bill likes this post

 

[devilsblood]

Even ignoring the paucity of options (they were bad y'all), being mad about the decision to get Vanecek is 100% monday morning quarterbacking for a season where the team was way better than even our GM thought we were gonna be.

Knowing what we know now maybe they could have pushed for a trade for a better guy, but vanecek was absolutely the right move last offseason knowing whate everybody did at the time.

And he was pretty good all season!

It's also stupid monday morning QB'ing...the options were shit last offseason and they weren't going to let Schmid play 55 games after he stunk two years ago in his first go-around. Even if they had it's not like the record would have been appreciably different, sure his splits were better than VV over the short term but he'd never handled that kind of workload either and it showed in the playoffs once the games started coming fast and furious, he needed that week off in the middle of the Canes series. VV was also worse over the second half once the workload caught up to him imo.

And if people do want to second guess playing Schmid more last year then why should we be looking for an upgrade this year?

The dude just asked the question. Don't think he was all upset about it. And while "smart" might be a stretch I wouldn't call him stupid.

 

[devilsblood]

Yeah, I don't want an extension on Toffoli at all at the moment. I need to see him play here before I decide on anything. Hellebuyck news is pretty status quo and I'm pretty much agree with their thinking there as well.

As always, it's all about the terms of the deal.

Say Toffoli is willing to sign for $5x3, just for stability and playing with a team that is going to contend. Then of course I sign that deal now.

Yes, I know that is absurdly cheap, but if his agent is coming in all eager to sign, maybe we get lucky.

But, how bout $6x4 right now?

 

[My3Sons]

As always, it's all about the terms of the deal.

Say Toffoli is willing to sign for $5x3, just for stability and playing with a team that is going to contend. Then of course I sign that deal now.

Yes, I know that is absurdly cheap, but if his agent is coming in all eager to sign, maybe we get lucky.

But, how bout $6x4 right now?

I'm sure Toffoli is hoping for a Palat type of extension but I don't think NJ can offer that to him. If I'm Fitz I'm not giving away any cap for next year or the year after until you know how much it will rise and you know how much you are going to tie up in extensions for Mercer and Luke.

 

[pkbrux]

As always, it's all about the terms of the deal.

Say Toffoli is willing to sign for $5x3, just for stability and playing with a team that is going to contend. Then of course I sign that deal now.

Yes, I know that is absurdly cheap, but if his agent is coming in all eager to sign, maybe we get lucky.

But, how bout $6x4 right now?

I'm not giving him $6m a year, definitely not. He is not a core piece, and I certainly am not giving him that much before I see how he fits on the roster.

Definitely willing to go the Haula route, let him play out the year here and see how it goes. If he has a great year and prices himself out, thats fine.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm sure Toffoli is hoping for a Palat type of extension but I don't think NJ can offer that to him. If I'm Fitz I'm not giving away any cap for next year or the year after until you know how much it will rise and you know how much you are going to tie up in extensions for Mercer and Luke.

Toffoli would be 32 when that contract starts. I'm not giving him a 6 year deal.

We did do that with Palat, and this goes back to your question from yesterday, and while I did like the Palat deal at the time, given we already have one of those, and we look very good with or without Toffoli, I'm not handing out another 6 year deal to a 32 year old.

Though Palat was 31 when his deal started. So lop off one year maybe?

 

[Devil X]

As always, it's all about the terms of the deal.

Say Toffoli is willing to sign for $5x3, just for stability and playing with a team that is going to contend. Then of course I sign that deal now.

Yes, I know that is absurdly cheap, but if his agent is coming in all eager to sign, maybe we get lucky.

But, how bout $6x4 right now?

That’s 6 million slot is Mercers. So no not yet. The cap will go up and that will give us a ton of flexibility going forward.