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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

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devilsblood said:
Big fast 26 year old face off ace's are available every year?
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He’s a high end 4C which I guess is nice to have, but probably not worth paying some premium for. Ultimately, how different is our record if we rolled with Boqvist as the 4C or some league minimum vet PTO guy?

I liked how he played in the postseason and want him back, but you could make the argument that Bastian is a better defensive player on that 4th line. The faceoffs are the most impressive thing about Mikey’s game, but we’ve had this discussion about how important that is really.
 
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McLeod was certainly great in the playoffs. No one is disputing that.

However, the fact of the matter is he is still a 4th liner who does not produce offense. yes, he is an elite faceoff man, but you don't sign someone longterm for that skill. Faceoffs overall are next to meaningless.

I have absolutely no interest in signing this type of player for anything more than 2-3 years. With all the big guns locked up, we need to be selective of our 4th line and how we allocate resources to it moving forward.
 
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MasterofGrond said:
Yes they have value, but not 2.5+ over 4-5 years.

If your carrying skill is faceoffs, like that’s the first thing people mention about you, that’s a guy you can replace sorry. And he’s not really a defensive ace either, as every single stat shows.

He’s a very good PKer, and that’s not nothing, but that’s not a dude you overspend on.
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High end speed. 2nd on the team in 5v5 assist rate. Underrated passer by many Devils fans.

Both of which are a bigger factor with Foote then with Wood.

Good size, willing to drop the gloves, and yes as you say, had a nice playoffs.

I say there is more offensive upside there too.

OmNomNom said:
methinks we're moving on from boq
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Like Shara (and Wood too to some extent), the playoff benching was writing on the wall.
 
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MasterofGrond said:
Bad offensively, mediocre defensively but good PK guys kind of are available every year. I don’t care if he’s big and fast if it doesn’t lead to good results.

And I’m more than fine having Nico be our “faceoff ace”
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Fitz obviously values faceoff ability, and wants more then just one guy. He likes size too.

The offense, as I note above regarding assists, is better then people give him credit for, and I think there is room there for later career growth.
 
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devilsblood said:
Fitz obviously values faceoff ability, and wants more then just one guy. He likes size too.

The offense, as I note above regarding assists, is better then people give him credit for, and I think there is room there for later career growth.
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Fitz wants good hockey players.

And it’s really not, he’s a black hole. He’s always been a black hole. How many 40 game goalless streaks can a guy have and still have defenders?
 
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SteveCangialosi123 said:
He’s a high end 4C which I guess is nice to have, but probably not worth paying some premium for. Ultimately, how different is our record if we rolled with Boqvist as the 4C or some league minimum vet PTO guy?

I liked how he played in the postseason and want him back, but you could make the argument that Bastian is a better defensive player on that 4th line. The faceoffs are the most impressive thing about Mikey’s game, but we’ve had this discussion about how important that is really.
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See Triumph's post regarding 4th line's as to why Boq is just not going to get that job.

And maybe my thesis is based on a misunderstanding regarding contracts at this stage of a players career, but I'm thinking by signing him longer term, we would not be paying a premium. I'm not looking to do that.

MasterofGrond said:
Fitz wants good hockey players.

And it’s really not, he’s a black hole. He’s always been a black hole. How many 40 game goalless streaks can a guy have and still have defenders?
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And Fitz is going to sign McLeod, it's a matter of how long.
 
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devilsblood said:
See Triumph's post regarding 4th line's as to why Boq is just not going to get that job.

And maybe my thesis is based on a misunderstanding regarding contracts at this stage of a players career, but I'm thinking by signing him longer term, we would not be paying a premium. I'm not looking to do that.


And Fitz is going to sign McLeod, it's a matter how long.
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Yes. I agree. Because paying 1.5-1.8 for Mcleod on a 2 year deal is reasonable given his ability.

Signing him to 5 years or 2.5+ is not.

Every NHL player has a reasonable price (not Blackwood) and mcleod is an NHL player. There are prices he’s worth having at and prices he’s not, which is the entire point of this conversation and how it started.
 
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MasterofGrond said:
Yes. I agree. Because paying 1.5-1.8 for Mcleod on a 2 year deal is reasonable given his ability.

Signing him to 5 years or 2.5+ is not.

Every NHL player has a reasonable price (not Blackwood) and mcleod is an NHL player. There are prices he’s worth having at and prices he’s not, which is the entire point of this conversation and how it started.
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But again, maybe I'm being presumptuous here regarding what McLeod would accept, but if McLeod's side is willing to sign 5 year's at $2mil then I want that deal over the 2x1.5.
 
devilsblood said:
Does it though? I do like Mikey, but he scored all of 4 goals last year, he's here with his BFF, and he does carry some baggage.

But my thought here is lock him up on the cheap. If it costs more to actually do so, then yeah, no.


That's one opinion.
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You’d be buying UFA years so yeah I’d say so. McLeod is also 25, you’d be signing him through the years when he theoretically can make the most money.

A 3 year deal allowing him to hit UFA at 28 is probably the best balance for keeping him cheap. Then he can cash in at 28 years old somewhere.
 
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devilsblood said:
But again, maybe I'm being presumptuous here regarding what McLeod would accept, but if McLeod's side is willing to sign 5 year's at $2mil then I want that deal over the 2x1.5.
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Yeah, but what if we signed wood to 5 year deal before his injury and then we’re locked in for another 3 years? Hockey players don’t age well, which is why you go long on elite guys, and shirt on fungible ones.

Plus there’s basically no chance mcleod goes long at 2. UFA in a riding cap world is too valuable there with how dumb GMs are
 
I don't blame Fitz for the moves he's making. In the past we'd probably be more attached to "our" drafted players, but we didn't win with them last year and there's no evidence that keeping them would change that result. We had to get better.

Thomas Tatar, Miles Wood, Damon Severson, Ryan Graves, Yegor Sharangovich, Mackenzie Blackwood - these 6 players all contributed (some more than others, looking at you MB29) to our growth from "probably loses to F10's beer league team" to where we are today. And I appreciate them and really hate to see some of them walk. But these are also the players (or contract situations, sadly) that you take action on when you want to make the team better.

There's no question that Timo Meier, Tyler Toffoli, Luke Hughes, and presumably Simon Nemec make the team better over the next 2-3 years and beyond. I think Nolan Foote, Curtis Lazar, and maybe even Graeme Clark make the "extra" spots stronger too.

So yeah, if we move from Boqvist who I think is an NHL player providing depth, but not really central to our plans (but could absolutely help another team, just like Sharangovich can) and Vanacek and another prospect to get a better, top 5 goalie, I get that too.

All in all impressive work. What an offseason.
 
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More importantly fitz hasn’t mortgaged an ounce of the future.

Castron and co will find some good players this draft and the upcoming ones.

Hughes,Nemec,holtz,grits, Casey are all still fermenting

Devils also stand to gain the most on the potential cap explosion.

Fitz seems to have the players buying into what he’s trying to do here
 
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Bcap88 said:
Hughes,Nemec,holtz,grits, Casey are all still fermenting
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IMG_8847.jpeg
 
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forceten said:
I don't blame Fitz for the moves he's making. In the past we'd probably be more attached to "our" drafted players, but we didn't win with them last year and there's no evidence that keeping them would change that result. We had to get better.

Thomas Tatar, Miles Wood, Damon Severson, Ryan Graves, Yegor Sharangovich, Mackenzie Blackwood - these 6 players all contributed (some more than others, looking at you MB29) to our growth from "probably loses to F10's beer league team" to where we are today. And I appreciate them and really hate to see some of them walk. But these are also the players (or contract situations, sadly) that you take action on when you want to make the team better.

There's no question that Timo Meier, Tyler Toffoli, Luke Hughes, and presumably Simon Nemec make the team better over the next 2-3 years and beyond. I think Nolan Foote, Curtis Lazar, and maybe even Graeme Clark make the "extra" spots stronger too.

So yeah, if we move from Boqvist who I think is an NHL player providing depth, but not really central to our plans (but could absolutely help another team, just like Sharangovich can) and Vanacek and another prospect to get a better, top 5 goalie, I get that too.

All in all impressive work. What an offseason.
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There's a lot of different things going on there.

Blackwood could just not stay healthy and stunk when he did play. I think Fitz may have hung on there if he wasn't so bad.

Wood is similar in that he was banged up the last 2 years and had a significant goal scoring drought.

Tatar was really good in the reg season. But then proved all the doubters regarding his playoff play in the post season.

Sev's and Graves were just squeezed by high end draft picks needing playing time if not right away, at some point in the very near future.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
They have Curtis Lazar at 1M who could do the same exact job as McLeod, there's next to no reason to overpay McLeod even though he had a tremendous playoffs
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Like I say above regarding the underrated offense McLeod brings. Lazar has 10 assists the last 2 seasons. McLeod has 36.

No where near the speed either, and that speed, as we saw in the playoffs, suggests higher offensive upside for McLeod. I think we see that more without Wood on his wing.
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
no 4th liner should ever, ever be signed longterm. Ever. Not even the best 4th liner in NHL history.
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Id agree if this was the 80s again

But in the modern day.. how you feel about your teammates and how players gel together is more important than ever before.

A fourth line staple like Mikey signed to 4-5 years I dont think should warrant being incredulous; now, I wouldnt offer 2.5, but somewhere between 1.75-2 is good especially with the cap rising
 
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* Bahl,
* McLeod,
* Graves,
* Tatar,
* Bastian,
* Boqvist

I put them in the order of potential impact for 2023-2024.

Bahl progressed so well and he's still got upside.

McLeod just stepped up his game against Carolina when others shrank AND he's a stud on the faceoffs. Feel like you gotta keep him.

Gravey, Tatar-Tot, Bastian, Boqvist...any feel "special/great chemistry/hard to replace"?

That's it, right? $10 M of cap space, a draft and probably 4 of those 6 players?
 
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