Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Bleedred]

But Blackwood might be a cautionary tale though. Similar to Carter Hart. Don’t lean too heavily on a young goalie even if he has had some success in the league

That's fair, but I still think he has earned the right to have a full time spot here next year.

We could always sign somebody else, but anyone worthwhile probably commands a 2-3 year deal that potentially blocks Schmid even beyond this year.

 

[Eggtimer]

It not realistic to expect Hellebuyck to take an extraordinary ridiculous paycut as a UFA to make teams happy.

And you can’t ask him to take a major haircut on term AND AAV. It doesn’t work that way with UFAs, you got to give them a big bag of money somehow.

Top goalies have had deals runs until their late 30s.
Lundqvist: he was going to be 39 when his last deal ended in 2020-21. (It was bought out in 2020, so it ended when he was 38.)
Price: his deal ends at age 38 after 2025-26
Bob: his deal ends at age 37 after 2025-26
Quick: His 10 year (!) deal ended when he was 37.
Kuemper: His deal ends at age 37 after 2026-27

He’s in a bit of pickle because the market for his huge deal isn’t that big. Some teams are just going to pass because they don’t want giant older goalie deals and other teams won’t have the space or have other solutions.

He could technically go for cheaper because a 8 year deal ends when he’s 39, so the ridiculous term can pull down the AAV. Remember he already makes 6.17m and is expecting a raise.

He might take a year or two off his deal, so it ends at a somewhat more realistic age. But less term means more AAV.

Historically the second big deal of any goalie is a legacy deal that doesn’t go well (to put it mildly).

A best case scenario is Lundqvist, who’s a 1st ballot Hall of Famer for his consistency and longevity, and he started to fade after 2 years into his last 7 year/8.5m contract. He was 32 years 4 months old when that deal started.

By the 3rd year, when he was 34, his back-ups started putting up better numbers.

The second big contract to Price, a 8 year/10.5m deal which started when he was 30 years 10 months old, has been mostly a disaster due to injury and it finally ends in 2025-26.

Bob was 30 years 9 months old when he signed his 7 year/10m deal which ends in 2025-26.

Hellebuyck will be 31 years 1 month old on July 1st 2024.

I obviously don’t know how Hellybuyck will perform in the future. Maybe he has future Vezina level seasons and amazing playoffs runs in him that would make it all worth it but realistically this contract is a very bad idea.

I just think the market for Helle won’t be what he is expecting . I don’t think any team hands out that much cash and years anymore . Ya GMs have made that mistake in the past , however I think that they have seen it happen more often than not where a long term high $ contract on a 30 year old goalie is very very risky . I can’t see a contender make the cap room for him . I wouldn’t say it’s impossible that we could end up with him in a bargain deal . The reason why I don’t think we go after him is Brodeur has said they will not pay UFA prices on a goalie and they want to develop the position from within . They spent a shit ton of money on a goaltending system of coach’s trainers talent evaluators and several people hired to run the department.

 

[Brodeur]

Regular season schedule is rumored to drop on Tuesday.

 

[glenwo2]

Regular season schedule is rumored to drop on Tuesday.

September feels like a million years away....

 

[devilsblood]

That's fair, but I still think he has earned the right to have a full time spot here next year.

We could always sign somebody else, but anyone worthwhile probably commands a 2-3 year deal that potentially blocks Schmid even beyond this year.

Ya. Its the same as rhd in that way as well. But the goalie position is far more important.

 

[Guttersniped]

But he has to acknowledge that none of those deals ended well.

Best deal he gets is a high aav at lesser years.

It will be interesting to see what he gets. The big goal deals, even Vasi’s, were all pre-COVID. GMs aren’t interested in paying goalies a ton.

The cap is going up though. He’s going to beat Markström’s 6 year/6m deal by quite a bit, come on now. Markström was 30 years 8 months when he signed his deal. (He got that deal coming off a season where he was a distant 4th in Vezina voting in 2019-20.)

Some people here were saying Severson should take some crazy “team friendly” deal to stay here and that didn’t make any sense either.

Well, that actually made even less sense because playing on the 3rd pair hurt his future market value so staying here short term was an arguably a bad idea for him.

But having him on a very cheap deal with little term sure would have helped us, so some people argued for it. And Severson was supposed to want that because “he could win here”.

 

[Smitty426]

This is a valid retort.

EDIT: I guess.... were Vernon and Barrasso ever as dominate during their time? I didn't see the early careers.

I am not even saying he does not belong. But to get in on year 2 and 1st time is a bit early. The guy was tremendous and def one of the best of his era. Barrasso was 19 and won rook of the year, Buf sucked though. Guys with more hardware and better (winning) credentials waited longer. As I said Luongo is in the same boat for me. Its done, but HHoF committee needs a house cleaning.

I'd rather acquire a bottom pairing defender that's young and waiver exempt, who can add depth and compete for spot but gives the team more options. Maybe a somewhat promising AHLer or a NHL player that's in a reduced role but could flourish in a different system.

Who would that be?

 

[TF1970]

Yeah with the Hellebuyck next contract, the hope for whichever team he ends up with (presumably one that has potential to contend in the near future, given that is what it appears he has interest in), he would be willing to sacrifice either AAV for term, or vice versa.

 

[MB3]

I’d rather not. He’s looking for 4 and he’s pretty meh. If he wasn’t a Devil fan I don’t think people would be talking about him as much.

How do you know what he's looking for?

 

[Hisch13r]

How do you know what he's looking for?

There was a report like last week.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I just think the market for Helle won’t be what he is expecting . I don’t think any team hands out that much cash and years anymore . Ya GMs have made that mistake in the past , however I think that they have seen it happen more often than not where a long term high $ contract on a 30 year old goalie is very very risky . I can’t see a contender make the cap room for him . I wouldn’t say it’s impossible that we could end up with him in a bargain deal . The reason why I don’t think we go after him is Brodeur has said they will not pay UFA prices on a goalie and they want to develop the position from within . They spent a shit ton of money on a goaltending system of coach’s trainers talent evaluators and several people hired to run the department.

It would be THE stupidest move to pay Helleybuck. Granted, he's just on the outside of elite guys in this league, of which there are maybe three in total, but Vegas proved you can get the same results with Lauren Brossoit and Adin Hill. The plan must be to win with a goalie on his first contract.

 

[MB3]

There was a report like last week.

you got a source?

is it his agent’s arb ask?

 

[billingtons ghost]

It’s not though. And Barrasso deserved it years ago, he’s just an asshole so he blew it and everyone assumed his shot passed.

Goalie stats are borderline garbage, it’s a tough position to compare and judge.

And if Tim Thomas wasn’t a lunatic in a bunker somewhere at this point I would say put him in there too, but they aren’t giving him a microphone on the Hall’s biggest day and seeing what’s happens.

Thomas had a relatively short period of dominance in a golden age of goaltending, that’s the other argument against him. (Not my argument but I’m pro-goalie.)

Also, until this year, f*** goalies was the Hall’s other argument. BUT THE AGE OF GOALIE LIBERATION HAS BEGUN AND NO ONE CAN STOP IT!

^This

You're always my hero, dear.

And for the record, I think Barasso/Vernon/Lundpads might be closer if you had to put one in for one game. The former truly were high leverage, big game goalies who proved it repeatedly with different teams.

 

[MasterofGrond]

It's Adj. Point Share data from HR, so obviously grain of salt everywhere, but anybody claiming Vernon isn't significantly worse than Barrasso as an induction is out to lunch. Vernon is a JOKE.

 

[Bleedred]

It's Adj. Point Share data from HR, so obviously grain of salt everywhere, but anybody claiming Vernon isn't significantly worse than Barrasso as an induction is out to lunch. Vernon is a JOKE.

View attachment 720232

View attachment 720233

View attachment 720234

I agree with this.

I don't think Vernon was bad, but not HOF worthy. Barrasso was definitely a little bit better.

Barrasso declined early, but didn't have many bad seasons before he was in his 30's and his last 7 or 8 years in the league were pretty bad. He was getting jobs on reputation at that point. Vernon had some poor seasons early in his career.

Barrasso also won the Vezina (as a teenager) and has the most points of any goalie, if I'm not mistaken. He had to be the youngest Vezina winner ever, if I had to guess.

I'm not trying to shit on Vernon, but it's a bit of a questionable HOF induction for sure. It's kind of like the goalie equivalent of Guy Carbonneau and with him going in, there's no telling who the hell else gets in among goalies.

I'd have to think Quick and probably even Price are very safe bets for the HOF now, even if they aren't first ballot.

And this may even put Tim Thomas in the HOF eventually. Osgood is definitely getting in. He hasn't had to wait as long as Vernon yet and retired approximately 10 years after Vernon/is 10 years younger than Vernon. I think he'll definitely get in now. And he has over 400 wins as well and multiple cups as starter.

Cujo being cupless may just prevent him from ever getting in.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I would very much like Toffoli, he's arguably my favorite target on the market rn. Basically Tatar with good playoffs. Also way better defensively.

 

[Zippy316]

He doesn't have to be the starter, but he's earned the right to be one of the two NHL goalies to at least start the season.

If I ever have to see that piece of shit decrepit #29 play another game here because he was good FOUR and FIVE seasons ago, I will start throwing the molotovs that I have saved for Cam Ward's potential HOF induction.

I really don't think the decrepit #29 will play here again or have a very long career in the NHL as much more than a third string Michael Hutchinson type.

The biggest issue with Schmid penciled in as 2G is whoever we get for 3G is going to be scrub level (Kinkaid/Domingue) or assuredly claimed on waivers if you try to send him down (DAccord/Nedelkjovic). Not to mention the domino effect of being an injury away from Daws or Brennan.

I’m conflicted, but part of me would rather give a one year deal to a guy who you can count on to be a quality backup. If Schmid plays them off the roster, then it’s his net. If not, a starting role in AHL will never hurt his development.

I would very much like Toffoli, he's arguably my favorite target on the market rn. Basically Tatar with good playoffs. Also way better defensively.

Toffoli would be amazing but you’re buying so high right now after his last year and at his AAV.

I’d love to somehow get him by overpaying with our “spare parts” like Sharangovich + Walsh. I just think the cost is going to be rough.

 

[Bleedred]

The biggest issue with Schmid penciled in as 2G is whoever we get for 3G is going to be scrub level (Kinkaid/Domingue) or assuredly claimed on waivers if you try to send him down (DAccord/Nedelkjovic).

Sounds almost exactly like shit bag that\'s worn #29 the last few years here.

No way do I honestly think he's better than Kinkaid, Domingue or Daccord and Nedeljkovic. It's probably a wash. If there is a difference it's miniscule.

Last year we had Schmid start as 3G, while we had a goalie equivalent to them start the season as one of the top 2 goalies.

 

[Hisch13r]

I would very much like Toffoli, he's arguably my favorite target on the market rn. Basically Tatar with good playoffs. Also way better defensively.

Disagree on the defense but do agree on really wanting Toffoli. I think Tatar’s a bit better of a playdriver both ways but Toffoli’s a better goal scorer and producer. Toffoli and if Boston’s actually looking to move Debrusk would be my 2 main targets

 

[Goptor]

Disagree on the defense but do agree on really wanting Toffoli. I think Tatar’s a bit better of a playdriver both ways but Toffoli’s a better goal scorer and producer. Toffoli and if Boston’s actually looking to move Debrusk would be my 2 main targets

He's a good player but I don't think he has the skating to keep up with this team.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Yes, too soon

 

[Patrik26]

Devils -Tampa March 19 replay on MSGSN right now.

 

[Better Call Sal]

View attachment 720266

Yes, too soon

Jeeeeesus

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Nothing much new about Haula. He wants to be here and we want him back.

Says Timo wants to be a Devil. They're still grinding it out, and they won't rush the process.

Said he was grateful the Devils let him interview with the Pens, so when he wasn't hired, he was openly welcomed back into the Devils fold. He had multiple interviews with them, and may have been a finalist.

He likes Stillman's progression, especially in the 2nd half of the season. He's working to be what the Devils want, and should be in the AHL next year. He sees Stillman as a middle 6 "touth the puck first" winger.

Be careful having an article that's positive on Stillman the most attacked prospect in our system....nice read

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I still can't believe we did a sign and trade with Severson and got a 3rd round pick back. Columbus must of really wanted him. I hope that 3rd round pick becomes something good for us.

Great move by Fitz...Best of luck to Sevo just hopefully his lapses come against us and we capitalize on them....