Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[My3Sons]

I don't mind adding him. Still kills penalties, will be cheap and only need a year.

If he stinks it's not worth it even at league minimum. He has to be competent and have some ability to play against good players on the other team. He can't need sheltering. Nemec is going to need sheltering and presumably you need someone better than that for a veteran pickup to make sense.

 

[TF1970]

would rather go with luke schenn if he would take a one year deal at something around $1.5-2 million ish. last i heard was leafs are looking close to league minimum for him, but he wants more than that.

 

[Forge]

If he stinks it's not worth it even at league minimum. He has to be competent and have some ability to play against good players on the other team. He can't need sheltering. Nemec is going to need sheltering and presumably you need someone better than that for a veteran pickup to make sense.

It's a third pairing D. If they don't want Nemec up while also filling out the corps with two other guys in Bahl and Hughes with limited experience, I'm not going to hate on it.

 

[Hisch13r]

If he stinks it's not worth it even at league minimum. He has to be competent and have some ability to play against good players on the other team. He can't need sheltering. Nemec is going to need sheltering and presumably you need someone better than that for a veteran pickup to make sense.

My hope is like Clifton or Mayfield. I feel like both could get a bit too much for my liking though. Can’t see them signing a one year and if it’s longer than that they’d be clearly behind Nemec as the 4RD. Maybe we’d be able to move them next summer

 

[Forge]

would rather go with luke schenn if he would take a one year deal at something around $1.5-2 million ish. last i heard was leafs are looking close to league minimum for him, but he wants more than that.

Wouldn't mind that at all.

 

[My3Sons]

My hope is like Clifton or Mayfield. I feel like both could get a bit too much for my liking though. Can’t see them signing a one year and if it’s longer than that they’d be clearly behind Nemec as the 4RD. Maybe we’d be able to move them next summer

I just want a guy who is an actual decent third pair defender. The team has Palat and Smith and Haula and even Hamilton for veteran know how. They don't need a guy to add more of that in my view. They need a guy who can play well on a third pairing defensively and hold up against better players in his own zone if injuries hit. If Johnson is just bringing experience and clutch and grab I'd pass. The comments posted above don't paint a great picture for him and I am a bit concerned that Fitz has a blind spot for tall defenders who fit an image he has. I really hope Nemec can spend one more year in the AHL with some interspersed small callups for a game here and there. Right now Nemec is one injury away from full time duty and whoever NJ signs as a veteran stopgap has to be able to play some second pair in a pinch without being a total trainwreck.

 

[Guttersniped]

It has nothing to do with the standard, it's the equivalent if Matt Murray and Adin Hill got into the HHOF for their runs. There's other way more deserving forwards who should've gotten in. No one has a problem with a guy like Hank because he was literally the best goalie in the league for a decade plus. Hell, Tim Thomas is way more deserving in the HHOF than the 2 out of the 3 goalies that went in yesterday.

It’s not though. And Barrasso deserved it years ago, he’s just an asshole so he blew it and everyone assumed his shot passed.

Goalie stats are borderline garbage, it’s a tough position to compare and judge.

And if Tim Thomas wasn’t a lunatic in a bunker somewhere at this point I would say put him in there too, but they aren’t giving him a microphone on the Hall’s biggest day and seeing what’s happens.

Thomas had a relatively short period of dominance in a golden age of goaltending, that’s the other argument against him. (Not my argument but I’m pro-goalie.)

Also, until this year, f*** goalies was the Hall’s other argument. BUT THE AGE OF GOALIE LIBERATION HAS BEGUN AND NO ONE CAN STOP IT!

 

[Cheddabombs]

Listened to the last 32 Thoughts with Fitz a few days ago and forgot to share this gem, just found someone mentioning it on Twitter lmao:

Ahaha that's so good

 

[MasterofGrond]

EJ sucks. Only positive about bringing him on would be us seeing Nemec REAL soon.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I want more green in the forum list asap.

 

[glenwo2]

I echo this person's sentiments.

WTF, MAN?

 

[Hisch13r]

I echo this person's sentiments.

WTF, MAN?

Expecting a 23 year old who had less than a 30 game sample last year to just be your starter is dumb.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

Thank you, you made my point! The market the guy played in juiced his exposure. Thats fine too, just realize that majes a difference.
The 2 Gs who went in waited a combined 35 yrs to get in
Vernon was a 2x winner, Conn Smythe winner in 97, Jennings winner and eligible since 2005!!!!!!!!! BTW thats 8 years to get there. Took 18 yrs for a guy who won (an not just cup(s))
Barrasso -Calder winner outta high school, 2x cup winner, Vezina winner. Took 17 years. Hank belongs there but he's no Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, lets be real!

This is a valid retort.

EDIT: I guess.... were Vernon and Barrasso ever as dominate during their time? I didn't see the early careers.

 

[glenwo2]

@Bleedred , this guy has a memeable face :

 

[Hisch13r]

I just want a guy who is an actual decent third pair defender. The team has Palat and Smith and Haula and even Hamilton for veteran know how. They don't need a guy to add more of that in my view. They need a guy who can play well on a third pairing defensively and hold up against better players in his own zone if injuries hit. If Johnson is just bringing experience and clutch and grab I'd pass. The comments posted above don't paint a great picture for him and I am a bit concerned that Fitz has a blind spot for tall defenders who fit an image he has. I really hope Nemec can spend one more year in the AHL with some interspersed small callups for a game here and there. Right now Nemec is one injury away from full time duty and whoever NJ signs as a veteran stopgap has to be able to play some second pair in a pinch without being a total trainwreck.

I’m basically at the same spot. I was very much on the AHL Nemec train for this year but after his burst the last few months of the season I could see it going either way with him to start the year. I think he could be a guy but I don’t want him to be a guy and would rather him in the AHL if he can’t make a real impact. I do think by the end of the year he’ll be fully ready to make a real impact. I don’t want to leave the spot open for him though with only filling it with a vet who can’t even go anymore. I feel similarly about filling out the forward group by adding 2 top 9 guys rather than leaving a spot open and hoping Holtz/Clarke take it

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

I echo this person's sentiments.

WTF, MAN?

He's got like 30 something NHL apperances. Vitek had a good regular season.

 

[Guttersniped]

It not realistic to expect Hellebuyck to take an extraordinary ridiculous paycut as a UFA to make teams happy.

And you can’t ask him to take a major haircut on term AND AAV. It doesn’t work that way with UFAs, you got to give them a big bag of money somehow.

Top goalies have had deals runs until their late 30s.
Lundqvist: he was going to be 39 when his last deal ended in 2020-21. (It was bought out in 2020, so it ended when he was 38.)
Price: his deal ends at age 38 after 2025-26
Bob: his deal ends at age 37 after 2025-26
Quick: His 10 year (!) deal ended when he was 37.
Kuemper: His deal ends at age 37 after 2026-27

He’s in a bit of pickle because the market for his huge deal isn’t that big. Some teams are just going to pass because they don’t want giant older goalie deals and other teams won’t have the space or have other solutions.

He could technically go for cheaper because a 8 year deal ends when he’s 39, so the ridiculous term can pull down the AAV. Remember he already makes 6.17m and is expecting a raise.

He might take a year or two off his deal, so it ends at a somewhat more realistic age. But less term means more AAV.

Historically the second big deal of any goalie is a legacy deal that doesn’t go well (to put it mildly).

A best case scenario is Lundqvist, who’s a 1st ballot Hall of Famer for his consistency and longevity, and he started to fade after 2 years into his last 7 year/8.5m contract. He was 32 years 4 months old when that deal started.

By the 3rd year, when he was 34, his back-ups started putting up better numbers.

The second big contract to Price, a 8 year/10.5m deal which started when he was 30 years 10 months old, has been mostly a disaster due to injury and it finally ends in 2025-26.

Bob was 30 years 9 months old when he signed his 7 year/10m deal which ends in 2025-26.

Hellebuyck will be 31 years 1 month old on July 1st 2024.

I obviously don’t know how Hellybuyck will perform in the future. Maybe he has future Vezina level seasons and amazing playoffs runs in him that would make it all worth it but realistically this contract is a very bad idea.

 

[Bleedred]

He's got like 30 something NHL apperances. Vitek had a good regular season.

Schmid's 22-23 was even better than Blackwood's 18-19 (defiitely when you include playoffs) and that got Blackwood an auto ticket to the NHL roster (Blackwood was about 7 months younger, but one more North American pro season at the time) backing up a 33 year old Cory, who was easily a worse goaltender in 2019 than Vitek is right now. So there's no reason he shouldn't at least start the season on the NHL roster.

What's the alternative? Overpay for another goalie or re-sign our RFA goalie, who is the worst (Full time) goalie in the national hockey league and has been an .892% goalie over his last 75 games?

Not that this means shit. McKenna is speculating and doesn't even work in the organization or have very close ties to it either. Other than he played in 2 or 3 rando games under MacLOSER in 2010.

 

[devilsblood]

It not realistic to expect Hellebuyck to take an extraordinary ridiculous paycut as a UFA to make teams happy.

And you can’t ask him to take a major haircut on term AND AAV. It doesn’t work that way with UFAs, you got to give a big bag of money somehow.

Top goalies have had deals runs until their late 30s.
Lundqvist: he was going to be 39 when his last deal ended in 2020-21. (It was bought out in 2020, so it ended when he was 38.)
Price: his deal ends at age 38 after 2025-26
Bob: his deal ends at age 37 after 2025-26
Quick: His 10 year (!) deal ended when he was 37.
Kuemper: His deal ends at age 37 after 2026-27

He’s in a bit of pickle because the market for his huge deal isn’t that big. Some teams are just going to pass because they don’t want giant older goalie deals and other teams won’t have the space or have other solutions.

He could technically go for cheaper because a 8 year deal ends when he’s 39, so the ridiculous term can pull down the AAV. Remember he already makes 6.17m and is expecting a raise.

He might take a year or two off his deal, so it ends at a somewhat more realistic age. But less term

Historically the second big deal of any goalie is a legacy deal that doesn’t go well (to put it mildly).

A best case scenario is Lundqvist, who’s a 1st ballot Hall of Famer for his consistency and longevity, and he started to fade after 2 years into his last 7 year/8.5m. He was 32 years 4 months old when that deal started.

By the 3rd year, when he was 34, his back-ups started putting up better numbers.

The second big contract to Price, a 8 year/10.5m deal which started when he was 30 years 10 months old, has been mostly a disaster due to injury and it finally ends in 2025-26.

Bob was 30 years 9 months old when he signed his 7 year/10m deal which ends in 2025-26.

Hellebuyck will be 31 years 1 month old on July 1st 2024.

I obviously don’t know how Hellybuyck will perform in the future. Maybe he has future Vezina level seasons and amazing playoffs runs in him that would make it all worth it but realistically this contract is a very bad idea.

But he has to acknowledge that none of those deals ended well.

Best deal he gets is a high aav at lesser years.

 

[Bleedred]

@Bleedred , this guy has a memeable face :

He's Dean Lombardi's nephew or perhaps younger brother, with a significant age difference.

He's almost a dead ringer for him, though he doesn't look as old as Dean, who probably has 15 years on him. He's probably a bit more fuller in the face than Deano is.

I pointed that out years ago.

 

[devilsblood]

Schmid's 22-23 was even better than Blackwood's 18-19 (defiitely when you include playoffs) and that got Blackwood an auto ticket to the NHL roster (Blackwood was about 7 months younger, but one more North American pro season at the time) backing up a 33 year old Cory, who was easily a worse goaltender in 2019 than Vitek is right now. So there's no reason he shouldn't at least start the season on the NHL roster.

What's the alternative? Overpay for another goalie or re-sign our RFA goalie, who is the worst (Full time) goalie in the national hockey league and has been an .892% goalie over his last 75 games?

Not that this means shit. McKenna is speculating and doesn't even work in the organization or have very close ties to it either. Other than he played in 2 or 3 rando games under MacLOSER in 2010.

But Blackwood might be a cautionary tale though. Similar to Carter Hart. Don’t lean too heavily on a young goalie even if he has had some success in the league

 

[glenwo2]

 

[Lou Bloom]

I'd rather acquire a bottom pairing defender that's young and waiver exempt, who can add depth and compete for spot but gives the team more options. Maybe a somewhat promising AHLer or a NHL player that's in a reduced role but could flourish in a different system.

 

[Bleedred]

I echo this person's sentiments.

WTF, MAN?

Expecting a 23 year old who had less than a 30 game sample last year to just be your starter is dumb.

He doesn't have to be the starter, but he's earned the right to be one of the two NHL goalies to at least start the season.

If I ever have to see that piece of shit decrepit #29 play another game here because he was good FOUR and FIVE seasons ago, I will start throwing the molotovs that I have saved for Cam Ward's potential HOF induction.

I really don't think the decrepit #29 will play here again or have a very long career in the NHL as much more than a third string Michael Hutchinson type.

 

[devilsblood]

Like with 3rd pair RHD if you bring in a quality player then Schmid, like Nemec becomes dependable depth that we stash in Utica.