Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[MartyOwns]

I tried to look it up through news on Google, thought that was the trick lol. How do you do that?

not sure why it didn’t work, that’s all i did. google the first few words of the article’s title, click the News filter, and open the article.

if it doesn’t work for anyone in the future, post the article here and tag me and i’ll reply with the free version. i accept blunts and beanie babies as forms of payment. but not old beanie babies- i like em fresh off the production line.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Was hoping they would do some pre-season games in Utica so I didn't have to go lol

 

[JrFischer54]

Yeah, I can't see how anyone can argue for Helly when Adin Hill and Darcy Kuemper won the Cup. The argument for Helly as a rental would track with Kuemper but extending him would be a no-no.



Right, which is why goalies should be given a harsh leash when it comes to the the HOF. I get the era for goalies was insanely brutal for during that time period but it doesn't mean you pick them over elite forwards every year. If you're going to do the era stuff with goalies, why does someone like Patrik Elias not get given the benefit of the doubt too in that and he was a far better forward than either of those guys were goalies. Just mind boggling shit, lol.

i'm sure buck wants a long term big ticket contract but i find it hard to believe a gm (a contending one) is going to put their name to that contract. bet he signs for a smaller and shorter deal then people expect.

 

[Bcap88]

Not that I'm going to, but how much does it cost to subscribe to NJ.com?

If you Google the article and click the news section then click the link in the news section it will be unlocked

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

I still can't believe we did a sign and trade with Severson and got a 3rd round pick back. Columbus must of really wanted him. I hope that 3rd round pick becomes something good for us.

 

[Zippy316]

I genuinely don’t understand the argument against Hellebuyck that involves “well Hill just won the cup”.

There’s a serious argument to be made whether it’s worth it to trade assets for him given his age, next contract, and the age of this team. But don’t kid yourselves that Hellebucyk won’t make a humongous difference on this team.

Hellebuyck is one of the few elite goalies in this league who can play a starters role and still give you top numbers. It’s him, Sorokin, Shesterkin, Saros, Vasilevskiy, Oettinger, (tbd on Ullmark) and then just about everyone else.

You might be able to win with average goaltending. We might genuinely be building toward that. However, adding an elite goalie on top of that makes this team even more dangerous, if it makes sense.

 

[My3Sons]

I genuinely don’t understand the argument against Hellebuyck that involves “well Hill just won the cup”.

There’s a serious argument to be made whether it’s worth it to trade assets for him given his age, next contract, and the age of this team. But don’t kid yourselves that Hellebucyk won’t make a humongous difference on this team.

Hellebuyck is one of the few elite goalies in this league who can play a starters role and still give you top numbers. It’s him, Sorokin, Shesterkin, Saros, Vasilevskiy, Oettinger, (tbd on Ullmark) and then just about everyone else.

You might be able to win with average goaltending. We might genuinely be building toward that. However, adding an elite goalie on top of that makes this team even more dangerous, if it makes sense.

If he was younger it would be an easier decision. You have a team that may be able to compete for up to say 10 years with luck and you add a 30 year old high priced goalie for 8 years and it's a potential drag at a spot where there is little wiggle room. A team only gets one alternate on goaltending once they commit big money to the spot. Look at what happened with Cory and if that went down when the team was actually good it would have been a disaster.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

I genuinely don’t understand the argument against Hellebuyck that involves “well Hill just won the cup”.

There’s a serious argument to be made whether it’s worth it to trade assets for him given his age, next contract, and the age of this team. But don’t kid yourselves that Hellebucyk won’t make a humongous difference on this team.

Hellebuyck is one of the few elite goalies in this league who can play a starters role and still give you top numbers. It’s him, Sorokin, Shesterkin, Saros, Vasilevskiy, Oettinger, (tbd on Ullmark) and then just about everyone else.

You might be able to win with average goaltending. We might genuinely be building toward that. However, adding an elite goalie on top of that makes this team even more dangerous, if it makes sense.

You solved your own mystery.

He's clearly a great goalie. But A) what assets do we give to get him? B) what kind of contract does he want and C) how much tread does he have left on the tires?

Now - for sure Devils fans can come up with answers to all 3 of those questions that make sense for us. But they won't fly with Winnipeg or Hellebuyck.

so what is the middle point that makes all 3 parties happy? I don't think there is one - and there in lies the issue.

 

[My3Sons]

You solved your own mystery.

He's clearly a great goalie. But A) what assets do we give to get him? B) what kind of contract does he want and C) how much tread does he have left on the tires?

Now - for sure Devils fans can come up with answers to all 3 of those questions that make sense for us. But they won't fly with Winnipeg or Hellebuyck.

so what is the middle point that makes all 3 parties happy? I don't think there is one - and there in lies the issue.

The middle point would likely involve a shorter term deal for Helle (maybe five years at a cap hit of about $8 mil per) but he'd have to really believe in what NJ is building to go for that. It's rare a player with no history with a team takes substantially less to go there. I still see Helle as an add for an all in team with a shorter window. Maybe Washington? Maybe Pittsburgh?

 

[TrufleShufle]

You solved your own mystery.

He's clearly a great goalie. But A) what assets do we give to get him? B) what kind of contract does he want and C) how much tread does he have left on the tires?

Now - for sure Devils fans can come up with answers to all 3 of those questions that make sense for us. But they won't fly with Winnipeg or Hellebuyck.

so what is the middle point that makes all 3 parties happy? I don't think there is one - and there in lies the issue.

The only chance is the fact that everyone in the league sees it the way we do, his age and what'll take to get/pay him. I'd be surprised if any team in the league give up big assets and then signs 9.5x8. So hopefully his value comes down a bit, if not, he walks to FA and he sees what he is really worth.

 

[Hisch13r]

The only chance is the fact that everyone in the league sees it the way we do, his age and what'll take to get/pay him. I'd be surprised if any team in the league give up big assets and then signs 9.5x8. So hopefully his value comes down a bit, if not, he walks to FA and he sees what he is really worth.

All it takes is one team. Still can’t see anyone going to 9.5 over 8 but I could see someone do like 8x8

 

[Louskoolaid89]

I'm good with Hellebuyck as a rental/show me deal. Yet I'm not parting with Schmid to do it. Our chances increase of going further and we would be for better or worse favorites in the east. Anyway good team problems this offseason and any of that B.S that ownership is cheap and doesn't care about improving the team can be finally put to rest!

 

[devilsblood]

I certainly struggle to think any team is going to give Helle an 8 year deal.

The one type of team I could maybe see is a team close to the end of it's run, who won't care that much to devote a big portion of their cap to a broken down goalie as stink, draft high, and rebuild.

Even that seems like a stretch.

I'm good with Hellebuyck as a rental/show me deal. Yet I'm not parting with Schmid to do it. Our chances increase of going further and we would be for better or worse favorites in the east. Anyway good team problems this offseason and any of that B.S that ownership is cheap and doesn't care about improving the team can be finally put to rest!

I'd expect Vitek to go the other way.

But I wouldn't want to give up much for a one year rental.

 

[Louskoolaid89]

Currently we have no current death trap disaster contracts. The closest thing is Dougie and he had a career year for us! A rarity when you get a big ticket UFA close to age 30. Doing the same thing for Hellebuyck may backfire. If he gets you a cup it's all worth it and money is pocket change for our owners. They can risk it as much as the Yankees and Mets do.

 

[Goptor]

Hellebuyck doesn't really make sense. The team is cap strapped this year so they'll need retention. They just gave a ton of assets for a huge piece in Meier and don't have the next 2 first round picks. Its a mess trying to get him on the team this year.

He'd be an interesting trade deadline pickup where the cap hit doesn't hurt as much but I think Winnipeg wants to recoup assets this offseason.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Currently we have no current death trap disaster contracts. The closest thing is Dougie and he had a career year for us! A rarity when you get a big ticket UFA close to age 30. Doing the same thing for Hellebuyck may backfire. If he gets you a cup it's all worth it and money is pocket change for our owners. They can risk it as much as the Yankees and Mets do.

The Palat contract is bad if last year is the new norm for him, but I'm willing to believe the injury limited him a decent amount.

 

[Hisch13r]

The Palat contract is bad if last year is the new norm for him, but I'm willing to believe the injury limited him a decent amount.

He’s going to have to be dumped in 2 years.

 

[JrFischer54]

I genuinely don’t understand the argument against Hellebuyck that involves “well Hill just won the cup”.

There’s a serious argument to be made whether it’s worth it to trade assets for him given his age, next contract, and the age of this team. But don’t kid yourselves that Hellebucyk won’t make a humongous difference on this team.

Hellebuyck is one of the few elite goalies in this league who can play a starters role and still give you top numbers. It’s him, Sorokin, Shesterkin, Saros, Vasilevskiy, Oettinger, (tbd on Ullmark) and then just about everyone else.

You might be able to win with average goaltending. We might genuinely be building toward that. However, adding an elite goalie on top of that makes this team even more dangerous, if it makes sense.

for every "no name" to win a cup there are 5 more no names that lost playoff series for their teams.

 

[Devs3cups]

I think Palat’s injury really affected his season, I’m totally willing to give him a full off-season of rest to see what’s up. I’m pretty confident he can bounce back.

With that said, that contract can be bought out pretty easily I think? I’m no expert on buyouts but here’s CapFriendly’s buyout calculator results if we buyout Palat in June of 2025:

 

[Hisch13r]

I think Palat’s injury really affected his season, I’m totally willing to give him a full off-season of rest to see what’s up.

With that said, that contract can be bought out pretty easily I think? I’m no expert on buyouts but here’s CapFriendly’s buyout calculator results if we buyout Palat in June of 2025:

View attachment 720070

I’d really hope we can find somewhere to dump him. Rather not have the dead cap

 

[TF1970]

The middle point would likely involve a shorter term deal for Helle (maybe five years at a cap hit of about $8 mil per) but he'd have to really believe in what NJ is building to go for that. It's rare a player with no history with a team takes substantially less to go there. I still see Helle as an add for an all in team with a shorter window. Maybe Washington? Maybe Pittsburgh?

I think he may end up in pittsburgh. their window to potentially win anything is the next couple years while sid, geno & letang are still there. after that, its likely gonna be a rough patch no matter if they move some additional assets for hellebuyck or not. gotta assume dubas is thinking all-in short term here for the most part.

 

[Devs3cups]

I’d really hope we can find somewhere to dump him. Rather not have the dead cap

Oh yeah for sure, I agree. This is worst case. It doesn’t look that horrible.

 

[Hisch13r]

Oh yeah for sure, I agree. This is worst case. It doesn’t look that horrible.

If we’re going to have the dead cap I’d rather retain half. That’d be 2 years of 3 rather than 3.5 and 2.5 and then 2 1.5 years.

 

[Rhodes 81]

He’s going to have to be dumped in 2 years.

Seems like that was the plan from the start, same with Hamilton. I forget the exact numbers but I remember his buyout being pretty low for the last year of his deal. Feels like that's the likely way to go.

If Nemec doesn't get the service time this year, his contract will slide and that would be the first year his ELC is up. The only remaining big raises we might anticipate between now and then would be Luke, Mercer, and Holtz if he works out. We might be able to ride that out with the combined savings from the Schneider buyout, Koukkanen buyout, and Kovalchuk cap recapture falling off, cap raise, and attrition from the depth guys. If Nemec plays this year or we commit big money to anyone else in addition to Meier, that could all scramble a bunch. The Meier deal and what kind of deals our depth signs this summer will inform a lot of those decisions.

 

[JrFischer54]

The middle point would likely involve a shorter term deal for Helle (maybe five years at a cap hit of about $8 mil per) but he'd have to really believe in what NJ is building to go for that. It's rare a player with no history with a team takes substantially less to go there. I still see Helle as an add for an all in team with a shorter window. Maybe Washington? Maybe Pittsburgh?

so for a guy that claims he wants to win and its important to him hes going to sign a "long termish" contract with two teams that didn't make the playoffs last year and would be harder pressed to make them going further?