Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Captain3rdLine]

It's less about him or his impact to the team as it is just, blah. The same 30 guys just seem to cycle around the league. Your point about experience meaning something is very valid. It's true it should count for something. It's just boring in this case for me as a fan, that's all. I don't care that much.

But as I showed it isn’t the same 30 guys whatsoever. There’s a continuous stream of new coaches. Over 50% of the coaches in the league are first time coaches right now. Then there’s probably 10 or less guys that keep getting hired by teams because they’re very experienced, have done well in the past and/or just have a strong reputation. Certainly isn’t 30 guys and it certainly isn’t the carousel people make it out to be.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

That’s absurd. Are they not going to elect Drai in 30 years because of Hitler?

At least you acknowledge the similarities between those 2.

It will be ~2040 when Drai is up for hall consideration, so roughly 100 years after Hitler's death. Meanwhile there's a moderate-fair chance that we'll be in the midst of or living in the immediate aftermath a world war because of Putin.

So yeah, it's absurd to compare a modern day allied player to one who didn’t always, but currently does, choose to stay with the enemy.

Considering how desperate the hall is I'm surprised they're making the right call.

 

[devilsblood]

Leave in the first overall pick, because he was getting Vezina votes because he was a 1st overall pick. It is likely why he will go to the Hall of Fame.

No he got votes because he put up #'s which were worthy of consideration.

Vitek has never put up numbers worthy of consideration.

Even in the last 3 years MAF has put up better numbers then Vitek.

 

[My3Sons]

No he got votes because he put up #'s which were worthy of consideration.

Vitek has never put up numbers worthy of consideration.

Even in the last 3 years MAF has put up better numbers then Vitek.

He is Vitek and you are like the buzzing of flies to him!!

 

[Goptor]

I like this change with the goaltenders getting in. The only goalie that would be voted in over the next 25 years is Vasilevskiy because the standard was too high for current players.

Lundqvist and Luongo would have been the only guys of their generation to get in and both are borderline. Letting in Barasso and Vernon paves the way for a lot of other guys to now get recognition.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

He'll be at the rock on Saturday.

Section 5 represent!

 

[Jack Be Quick]

I know it’s not apples to apples, but my point is that Mogilny has as much to do with the current geopolitical climate as Drai did with Hitlers atrocities. It’s just a shame that because you share a nation with an historically not-good person, you’re treated as a leper.

That's not a point it's a logical fallacy.

We're living in the here and now, these people have a choice whereas not one single German under 90 did.

Mogilny made the right decision at one point in his life, under much less dire circumstances I might add. It wasn't an act of defiance or courage during those years as the writing was in the wall. Purely profit motivated. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that, let's just not get it twisted and pretend that Gorbachev was on the brink of doing something truly twisted.

 

[Hisch13r]

I like this change with the goaltenders getting in. The only goalie that would be voted in over the next 25 years is Vasilevskiy because the standard was too high for current players.

Lundqvist and Luongo would have been the only guys of their generation to get in and both are borderline. Letting in Barasso and Vernon paves the way for a lot of other guys to now get recognition.

Lundqvist and Luongo were never going to be "borderline" guys. They were always going to be first ballot.

 

[Guttersniped]

It's unclear whether that number is taking into account SV% or not, so I will discard it for now - it may just be an era-adjusted GAA. Thankfully we don't need it.



He's been fine in his later years. He hasn't imploded yet.



So far in his career, MAF saves 0.08 goals per 60 minutes above average, or ~5 goals in a 60 game season. So far in his career, Vitek saves .08 goals per 60 minutes above average, or ~5 goals in a 60 game season. The thing is, luck is such a huge factor that an average goalie will likely have an outstanding season eventually, and surely the fact that it was a short season probably helped.

MAF is probably better, but it's not by a whole lot.



Leave in the first overall pick, because he was getting Vezina votes because he was a 1st overall pick. It is likely why he will go to the Hall of Fame.

MAF is going to hall of fame for a number of reasons but he has the 3rd most regular season wins of all time, 544.

Vitek has 74 wins and is only 11 years younger. He‘s not a real starting goalie yet and not in the same universe with MAF. It has nothing to due with draft position.

This is like when people tried to discredit Marty with the his back-ups stats when they played 6 f***ing games a year.

And if you think MAF’s wins are meaningless, I don’t see another goalie right now who can touch that number other than Vasi and he would have to keep rolling off big seasons for another decade.

I don’t give a shit about rate, you need a goalie who play a ton and win a lot, these aren’t skaters.

MAF is a tier down from a good number of the GOAT goalies, but goalies who don’t have a long established career as 1G don’t even belong in this conversation.

Lundqvist and Luongo were never going to be "borderline" guys. They were always going to be first ballot.

 

[Devs3cups]

He'll be at the rock on Saturday.

Section 5 represent!

Saw him not too long ago, he gives a very good show. You’ll have a good time!

 

[Smitty426]

Elias is a borderline guy. Lundqvist is one of the best goalies ever and the best of his generation. He's a clear cut 1st ballot guy.

Clear-cut?
Nah, he deserves to be in but a few yrs out. Use Marty as a yard stick. Accomplishments to time in. Hank is 6th in wins, no hardware, gold medal. All good stuff but cmon. Lu same boat, look at the other Gs going in with Hank? Most people don't even know them it's been so long! Great player, belongs (eventually) but if he played in Columbus he hardly be on the ballot

 

[devilsblood]

I don’t give a shit about rate, you need a goalie who play a ton and win a lot, these aren’t skaters.

MAF is a tier down from a good number of the GOAT goalies, but goalies who don’t have a long established career as 1G don’t even belong in this conversation.

That was another thing I was going to note. MAF played over 3000 minutes 10 times in his career.

Over 3600 minutes 8 times.

Vitek almost played 3000 minutes this year.

 

[Hisch13r]

Clear-cut?
Nah, he deserves to be in but a few yrs out. Use Marty as a yard stick. Accomplishments to time in. Hank is 6th in wins, no hardware, gold medal. All good stuff but cmon. Lu same boat, look at the other Gs going in with Hank? Most people don't even know them it's been so long! Great player, belongs (eventually) but if he played in Columbus he hardly be on the ballot

Lundqvist was far and away the best goalie of his generation. He also does have a Vezina. He was a finalist 4 other times and one time Hart finalist. Using the “if he played in Columbus” argument is dumb. You can easily flip that as like “if he played in Pittsburgh” we’d literally be talking about this guy as if he’s in the Hasek, Marty, Roy echelon with all the Cups he would’ve won and combine the hard on GMs have for wins and the weight they have with Vezina voting with Lundqvist’s level of dominance and he would’ve won quite a few. Lundqvist’s a clear cut first ballot guy.

 

[Guttersniped]

Lundqvist was far and away the best goalie of his generation. He also does have a Vezina. He was a finalist 4 other times and one time Hart finalist. Using the “if he played in Columbus” argument is dumb. You can easily flip that as like “if he played in Pittsburgh” we’d literally be talking about this guy as if he’s in the Hasek, Marty, Roy echelon with all the Cups he would’ve won and combine the hard on GMs have for wins and the weight they have with Vezina voting with Lundqvist’s level of dominance and he would’ve won quite a few. Lundqvist’s a clear cut first ballot guy.

He was great playoff performer. His run from 2011-12 to 2014–15 is pretty phenomenal. (And thanks for the loss Hank!) He played more games than any goalie in that period and his numbers are sterling, it’s pretty comical how he carried that team at times.

At times they only won because he held the other team to 1 GA game after game. Unfortunately for him more talented teams show up at the end. (Whomp whomp lol.)

He basically single-handedly dragged them to the ECF in 2015, that team started to suck. (Seriously, they blew the team up for a reason.)

 

[Whaddagoal]

If Mogilny is currently living in Russia, and supportive of the current regime and the invasion of Ukraine, then I'd say that that is not a great comparison.

I don't know if he is, but if he isn't then I would actually see it as a positive given the logic.

What does mogilny have to do with Putin? These kind of broad associations by nationality or heritage are absurd.

(Not directed at you but general rant)

There are millions of people of the same ethnicity and/or nationality of Putin (or speak the Russian language) that don't agree with the foreign policy of the Putin government.

(Parallel is blaming Sharangovich for Lukoshenko's policies tied to Putin... How would that logical? Maybe ban him too? Collateral shaming)

Or It's like all the people that didn't vote for Trump or didn't vote for Biden are to blame for the USA domestic or foreign policy that was enacted during their terms. I don't control the us foreign policy whether I voted for the those or not. As if politicians do what they say they will do....not in my lifetime. They do whatever they feel like doing or their lobby groups push for (and that is in the USA). Forget places where leaders have even more of a direct grip on everything.

In a perfect vacuum one can think that, or think somehow dictators can be fairly "voted" out. Yeah...not realistic.

Anyway sucks that people so far removed from politics or literally not in any sphere, or have zero actual means to make a change, are collateral punished.

Anyway I know this de-railed (mods feel free to move to OT or whatever)

 

[Nico Hischier]

It wouldn’t shock me if Timo signs the same contract as Bratt.

A couple of examples are Toews and Kane in Chicago and Suter and Parise in Minnesota both signing identical contacts.

Maybe Fitz could get Meier to buy in and sign an identical contact extension as Bratt while everyone is predicting 9.5 aav

 

[njdevil26]

To me it is absolute horseshit that Mogilny isn't in the Hall allegedly because of the sensitivity around the political situation. If that's how they want to treat it, just expel the Russians from the NHL then.

The entire league celebrates Ovechkin and his chasing of this record while his Instagram profile pic is still him and Putin.

I am as much on the side of the Ukrainian people as possible in this conflict but the overcorrecting and the way Russians are treated on the side is pretty embarrassing.

 

[MauDevils]

It wouldn’t shock me if Timo signs the same contract as Bratt.

A couple of examples are Toews and Kane in Chicago and Suter and Parise in Minnesota both signing identical contacts.

Maybe Fitz could get Meier to buy in and sign an identical contact extension as Bratt while everyone is predicting 9.5 aav

I expect 8.5 for Meier. The rumor was his ask was 9 at the time of the trade.

 

[NJDevs26]

It wouldn’t shock me if Timo signs the same contract as Bratt.

A couple of examples are Toews and Kane in Chicago and Suter and Parise in Minnesota both signing identical contacts.

Maybe Fitz could get Meier to buy in and sign an identical contact extension as Bratt while everyone is predicting 9.5 aav

Toews and Kane came up together with the Hawks, Suter and Parise were buddies - Timo and Bratt don’t have much of a preexisting relationship so it’s unlikely they’d take matching deals for the sake of it.

 

[Mgd31]

I expect 8.5 for Meier. The rumor was his ask was 9 at the time of the trade.

It will probably be 8.5 yea, but would not be shocked if Fitz gets him down to a little over 8. Will chuckle if its Jack's 8x8 deal.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I mean, extreme bias here, but Lundqvist’s resume is so overrated. Seriously, WC medals are going to tilt the scale? Even if he gets in because let’s face it, the gate is pretty wide open these days, no way he’s a first ballot guy.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

look, we all hated and made fun of Lundqvist, but this revisionist history nonsense that he doesn't deserve to be 1st ballot is absurd lol he is one of the better goalies of all time.

also,

 

[MB3]

His HHoF display for the induction won’t have a picture of him with a stanley cup and that’s all I care about.

But it’s beyond homerism nonsense to call him anything other than a sure fire HoFer

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I like this change with the goaltenders getting in. The only goalie that would be voted in over the next 25 years is Vasilevskiy because the standard was too high for current players.

Lundqvist and Luongo would have been the only guys of their generation to get in and both are borderline. Letting in Barasso and Vernon paves the way for a lot of other guys to now get recognition.

It has nothing to do with the standard, it's the equivalent if Matt Murray and Adin Hill got into the HHOF for their runs. There's other way more deserving forwards who should've gotten in. No one has a problem with a guy like Hank because he was literally the best goalie in the league for a decade plus. Hell, Tim Thomas is way more deserving in the HHOF than the 2 out of the 3 goalies that went in yesterday.