Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[glenwo2]

Bratt talks signing long-term contract with Devils in Q&A with NHL.com | NHL.com

Forward also discusses New Jersey becoming Cup contender, higher expectations, new teammate Toffoli

www.nhl.com

Nothing groundbreaking, but worth the read.

What did you buy yourself as a gift after signing your contract?

"I didn't buy myself anything actually. I didn't do anything special with it. It was just nice to have the eight years, the term, knowing I'll be in Jersey. I didn't really change anything in my life. My little brother (Filip) needed a car so I got him a car so he could get around for the new team he plays for in the Swedish league in Boras, which is outside of Gothenburg."

Thank you, Jesper.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Zep > Floyd >>>>>>>> Stones. Rolling stones are crap

Exile on Main St. is as good as it gets

 

[JimEIV]

I had Patrick over Nico. Make sure to bring it up the next time you disagree with me on anything. Not just hockey. I mean, anything. Like, if I'm arguing Led Zeppelin and you're arguing The Rolling Stones or if I'm arguing cats and you're arguing dogs or if I'm arguing red and you're arguing blue. Anything at all. Just bring up Nolan Patrick and I'm pretty sure I automatically lose whatever debate I'm involved in.

I'm right there with you on Zeppelin.

 

[JimEIV]

But nothing is greater than Yngwei Malmsteen

 

[Better Call Sal]

Shared Game 1 yesterday, here’s Game 2. It’s a fun one!

 

[JrFischer54]

So your solution was to do what? Make every single pick and pray that one or two of those high seconds, who have something like a 25% chance of being a regular and like 5% of being a star, hit? If Shero didn't use those seconds and thirds to get Palms/Mojo/Grabner (failure)/Maroon, this team does not make the playoffs and would have gone 11 years between playoff appearances. How does that effect guys like Nico and Bratt? In 2019, we were entering year 5 of a total rebuild. You can't compile and stockpile picks forever.

Just weird bashing someone for trading 2nd and 3rd round picks while those pics went on to do nothing themselves.

 

[Bleedred]

Oh come on Odelein doesn't deserve to be throw in with those waste products. He had a solid 3 years-ish with us as top 4 defender

I didn't think so. I thought he was terrible. I'm not sure if he was ever a good defenseman, but he was probably serviceable at some point in his career.

Not to mention, he was one guy I think a lot of fans didn't like when he was here. I think fans were a bit mixed on Thomas, Andreychuk and Gilmour as well. Some of that was unfair and some of those guys took some heat as part of the problem with the playoff failures (and miss) between 96 and 99. None of those guys were part of the 95 cup team and all of them were gone by the 2000 cup team. Odelein was a gigantic anchor and we were better off for purging him in 99-00 on the way to the cup run.

Odelein to me was kind of like our version of Brooks Orpik for the Capitals during some of those years the Capitals couldn't get to the SCF or past the second round. Orpik was still there for the 2018 cup, but the minutes were cut for that playoff run.

Steve Thomas was a good player, but I couldn't stand him here. I loved knocking his teams out in the playoffs for the better part of his post-Devils career, and his old ass was one of the biggest mouths during the 03 SCF.

 

[Devs3cups]

Shared Game 1 yesterday, here’s Game 2. It’s a fun one!

It’s wild how much the game has changed.

 

[JrFischer54]

of course you don’t lol, you were advocating kakko at the time. at least you don’t see him as a disgrace anymore. honestly i like you, but why anyone gives your opinions any credence i’ll never understand.

Dang and I thought I had a rep!

 

[Bleedred]

Kind of scary seeing Al Morganti looking young and having a pretty nice head of hair.

Barry Melrose looks close to 40 years younger than he does now.

Younger Milbury is just as ugly as he is now. Actually, maybe even uglier.

 

[JrFischer54]

I see trading picks for RFAs differently because you can resign RFAs even if you’re still bad. That goes for great RFA trades (Palms) and the ones no one liked from the beginning (Mueller).

And all of the early ones were in Shero’s “trading our extra picks” phase.
June 2015: Palms were the 2nd & 3rd from FLA (Jagr)
June 2016: Bennett was 2016 3rd from DET (Zidlicky)
June 2017: Mueller was the 2017 2nd from BOS (Stempniak) & 2017 4th from NSH (Fiddler), we got a 2017 5th in return.
July 2017: Mojo was the 2018 2nd from FLA (Savard) & 2018 3rd from TOR (2015 compensation for Lou lol)

But then we didn’t make any trades and Shero traded four 2nds in a row. How do you not see that’s bizarre for a bottom feeder? His TDL was criticized (rightly) by people who pointed out that we didn’t have the draft resources to make a move like that.

When did we “stockpile picks” under Shero? If Fitz was against “stockpiling picks” we wouldn’t have Mercer now or Mukhamadullin for the Meier trade.

To me, there was a problem with Shero trading every extra 2nd and then four of our own. I think we needed to draft in the 2nd Rd more. Shero’s strategy with picks (until 2018) was quantity not quality.

You need both in rebuilds. The reason you get extra picks, particularly extra early ones, is to take a bunch of extra swings and flood your system with talent. It’s a messy process but when you’re devoid of talent that’s what it takes.

Repeatedly trading 2nds for guys who were 2-3 years from UFA particularly drags out the process. These players aren’t part of the future and at best you might flip them (and some we didn’t).

We’re so f***ing lucky that we won two lotteries and the Summer of Shero didn’t work because he half-assed the rebuild. Yes, old man Lou didn’t leave him with much, but I’ve seen other GM generate assets out very little, while Shero pissed away a bunch. He deserves criticism for his bad asset management.

I’ve run out ways to say the same thing over and over again.

It’s funny but Shero is the reason we had muk mercer but hey bad asset management pissing away 2s 3s that turned into absolutely nothing in the end. I’m completely fine trading the picks anytbing after the first is a total crapshoot

 

[Bleedred]

I forgot how popular the connect-a-brow was among hockey players in 1995.

It's even more of a distinct feature on 1995 Brind'Amour than his nose was.

Bobby Holik was rocking it.

Pat Burns (not present in this game) also had a pretty epic connect-a-brow in the 90's.

Both Brodeur and Hextall were better puck moving goalies than anyone I think we've seen since Brodeur last played. Although the trapezoid may also hamper that a bit these days.

 

[Nubmer6]

Oh come on Odelein doesn't deserve to be throw in with those waste products. He had a solid 3 years-ish with us as top 4 defender

Ya know, I basically (quietly) agree with much of what you say here... until this.

Odelein/Slowdelein/Blowdelein/Can'tHoldelein blew monkey balls from the second he got here.

 

[JimEIV]

I didn't think so. I thought he was terrible. I'm not sure if he was ever a good defenseman, but he was probably serviceable at some point in his career.

Not to mention, he was one guy I think a lot of fans didn't like when he was here. I think fans were a bit mixed on Thomas, Andreychuk and Gilmour as well. Some of that was unfair and some of those guys took some heat as part of the problem with the playoff failures (and miss) between 96 and 99. None of those guys were part of the 95 cup team and all of them were gone by the 2000 cup team. Odelein was a gigantic anchor and we were better off for purging him in 99-00 on the way to the cup run.

Odelein to me was kind of like our version of Brooks Orpik for the Capitals during some of those years the Capitals couldn't get to the SCF or past the second round. Orpik was still there for the 2018 cup, but the minutes were cut for that playoff run.

Steve Thomas was a good player, but I couldn't stand him here. I loved knocking his teams out in the playoffs for the better part of his post-Devils career, and his old ass was one of the biggest mouths during the 03 SCF.

Terrible Dmen don't get over 1000 NHL games over 16 years and average 20 minutes a night.

 

[Nubmer6]

Terrible Dmen don't get over 1000 NHL games over 16 years and average 20 minutes a night.

Jack Johnson (b.1987) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Jack Johnson, a hockey player from Indianapolis, IN born Jan 13 1987 who was active from 2003 to 2024.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[JimEIV]

Jack Johnson (b.1987) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Jack Johnson, a hockey player from Indianapolis, IN born Jan 13 1987 who was active from 2003 to 2024.

www.hockeydb.com

He wasn't terrible either.

 

[Bleedred]

He wasn't terrible either.

I think he always has been. I think even worse than Odelein.

He clearly seems to get jobs based on being a former 3rd overall pick and he was also good at producing points at one point in his career early on, but it's been a pretty long time since he's done that.

Crosby also had a lot to do with him getting that 5 year deal from Pittsburgh back in 2018, which he was bought out from.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I cant have Stones over Zeppelin, I have taste.
Overall everybody can make mistake. Even me(even lets count I didnt have many). Sorry. Even Me.

I think having Patrick over Nico was not so huge thing, but it should learn us to think about injuries more. And(more importantly) about hockey iq, effort, two way game. For example some people have Eklund over Beniers. Some didnt have Beniers as top-3 (pathetic, it was The Mighty Myself). With his skating and two way game, I wasnt as big on him somehow. Really I dont know why, he was prototypical my hockey player. May be love from scouching spoiled my mind. It was definitely it. I havent Beniers as top 3, My top-3 were Power, McTavish and Edvinsson of course. I still like all of this players. But I would definitely put Beniers in top-3 now.

Oh man, I absolutely loved Beniers. Easy to see why, now.

But just as importantly, Led Zeppelin was clearly better than the Stones. Physical Graffiti and Houses of the Holy are two of the 10 best rock albums ever recorded. And I'd rank every one of their albums in the top 100 of all time. The Stones were terrific, but they have as many meh albums as great albums. And I'm sorry, Mick Jagger is no Robert Plant, Keith Richards is no Jimmy Page, and no one is John Bonham.

The rest of my post was hypothetical. In reality, I love both cats and dogs. But I would also argue you're correct in saying you don't make many mistakes. I'm always touting my buddy @Guadana on the draft threads and Twitter, haha.

I'm right there with you on Zeppelin.

Zeppelin is king, brother.

 

[Goptor]

There's a decent chance Ristolainen gets to 1000 games. Flyers are stuck with him for 4 more years.

 

[StevenToddIves]

But nothing is greater than Yngwei Malmsteen

I'll take this guy, but yeah Yngwe would shred.

 

[My3Sons]

Zeppelin vs Stones isn’t an apples to apples comparison. There was a good gap in style and in the development of music through the 60’s between them. A crucial few years. And the styles diverged. Plus the Stones went through so many incarnations. The Stones of Beggars Banquet can’t really be compared to the two early Zeppelin albums without the criterion becoming taste in styles of music, for example.

Actually I saw Zeppelin at the Fillmore East on their first American tour, it would have been spring of ‘69 maybe? They opened a bill for Blood Sweat and Tears lol.

Wow. You are even older than me. Who else did you see back then?

 

[NJDevs26]

There's a decent chance Ristolainen gets to 1000 games. Flyers are stuck with him for 4 more years.

The Flyers would scratch him when he gets to 995 just cause

 

[My3Sons]

I'll take this guy, but yeah Yngwe would shred.

You mean the guy behind Tom Petty’s left shoulder when he starts singing?

 

[indfin]

Should the same be said for the devils trading back and taking broduer? Why risk letting another team take him

Any time you trade down, there is some risk that you lose out on a player you covet. In this case, I assume the Devils knew that Calgary was taking Kidd (it may even have been discussed, and he was the consensus top goalie in that draft) ... so it was 8 teams that could have taken Brodeur And Brodeur wasn't even the 2nd-rated goalie (Felix Potvin), making it even more likely that Marty (who generally was looked at as a 2nd round pick) would be available. So not zero risk, but probably pretty minimal.

I am not suggesting that the Devils scouts/GM deserve NO credit for the Bratt pick. Someone saw some potential upside in him that they didn't see elsewhere ... and that no other team saw. I am just saying that they weren't walking away from that draft thinking they got a 30G/70pt player. If they DID, then they got really lucky after giving every team multiple chances to pick Bratt, while they themselves chose:

Joey Anderson
Brandon Gignac
Mikhail Maltsev
Evan Cormier
Yegor Rykov

They also could have taken Bratt at pick #77 (which they traded for Beau Bennett).

I am not even counting McLeod and Bastian, as (based on prospect rankings) no one was taking Bratt in the first two rounds.

A 6th round pick is a lottery ticket and, like any lottery ticket, they almost always end up worthless. They hit on this one ... in a big way

 

[Bleedred]

There's a decent chance Ristolainen gets to 1000 games. Flyers are stuck with him for 4 more years.

And he'll probably still get a job somewhere else after that contract expires, if he's still healthy enough to play.

Brooks Orpik (who I already mentioned) was another that played a long time and over 1000 games.

Although I think it's fair to say Orpik was a good or at least adequate defenseman way back at the time he was with the Pens when they won the cup.