Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II
- Thread starter NJDevs26
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- May 1, 2011
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Since Shero was brought up, I feel the need to remind everyone that John Hynes is available for hire if we need an assistant coach! 
we could probably get Novo to ask him if this current Devils team is fast, attacking, and supportive.Since Shero was brought up, I feel the need to remind everyone that John Hynes is available for hire if we need an assistant coach!
JimEIV
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- Feb 19, 2003
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And that was another massive Shero fail. I don't know how that guy had a job....Since Shero was brought up, I feel the need to remind everyone that John Hynes is available for hire if we need an assistant coach!
And he was a freaking weasel on top of it all. He frequently blamed players "not getting it" to deflect from his horrible system.
njdevils1982
Hell Toupée!!!
Since Shero was brought up, I feel the need to remind everyone that John Hynes is available for hire if we need an assistant coach!
but wouldnt you rather the bench? (hydra or ftorek)
NJ DevLolz
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Obviously it turned out to be the best thing that the team crashed and burned, but your post reeks of hindsight. Devils were banking on the following happening and it wasn't really that difficult to imagine they would be a playoff team:
-Natural progression from young roster players like Nico, Bratt, Zacha, and Butcher.
-Subban coming in as a 1D (a level he had played at for almost a decade - yes there were signs of decline)
-Hughes putting up 50-60 points like nearly everyone expected.
-Gusev putting up 50-60 points and fitting in sooner.
-A full season of Blackwood where he .918 for over a quarter of a season's worth of games. Ironically, Blackwood held up his end of the bargain the next season.
-A healthy, ~ppg Hall coming back into the fold.
This team still had cap flexibility to make a splash for future UFA and Shero never traded a 1st.
I'm not saying Shero was perfect, but I think he did an average to above average job considering what he inherited.
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Since Shero was brought up, I feel the need to remind everyone that John Hynes is available for hire if we need an assistant coach!
NJ DevLolz
The Many Saints of Newark
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The Devils got back what they paid for Johansson. Butcher was literally a free agent. As was Simmonds. The only one I really didn't like at the time was Mueller, but it was made a few days before the draft where NJ took Nico so I'm sure that was part of it. He was certainly bargain bin hunting for guys in their early to mid 20s with high pedigree. The good news is none of them required long-term commitments. I bet if you go back into the trade threads most of the trades you're shitting on now would be met with praise.
Edit - they were.
Subban: Confirmed with Link: - P.K.Subban traded to NJ for Santini, Davies, two 2nds
MoJo:
Confirmed with Link: - Devils acquire Marcus Johansson from WSH
People here and on social media were literally begging Shero to acquire Gusev. Can't find the trade thread from this board but it was another lauded move at the time.
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SteveCangialosi123
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I don’t think any more needs to be said about Shero. We’re all happy with the guy we have now.
- May 1, 2011
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Ehhh... I'm a well-documented and vocal non-believer in Hynes. I don't think he's a good NHL head coach (maybe he's okay, he's definitely not particularly good), but the team was pretty bad on paper during his years here, so it's kind of hard to blame him a whole lot. I wouldn't say he was a weasel, he seemed like a nice guy, but yeah I'm not a fan of him as a head coach. I was VERY SHOCKED he got a head coaching job as quickly as he did. I was very naive to think DeBoer wouldn't get hired the next offseason after us, so I'll eat that one, but I still don't understand how Hynes got another head coaching job THAT quick AND from THAT GOOD of a team back in 2020.
So yeah, I don't think he was good, it's hard to prove he was bad. And this is really gonna open up more Shero talk, but I really think Hynes staying about 6-7 weeks longer than he should have probably ruins both Hynes AND Shero's goodwill among Devils fans. And it probably cost Shero his job, but that's something we'll never know. I'm not saying Devils would have liked Hynes or had nothing but positive things or ANY positive things to say about Hynes had he been canned 6-7 weeks earlier than he was, but I think the Fitz to the bench to babysit Hynes (what good did that do?) and keeping him on life support for over 1.5 months probably made the perception of him worse. I don't think there was ever going to be much positive out of the Hynes era, simply because the team just wasn't good or talented enough to do anything under Hynes, but I think keeping his job on life support for 6-7 weeks did no favors for either of their reputations among Devils fans.
Nashville also wasn't any count this past year. which I don't blame Hynes for. They were still a good team when he got there, but they were still in the tail end of their contendership when he got there. They kind of became what it looks like Washington has also become.
EDIT - I don't think hiring him was ever a fail, but he definitely stayed 6-7 weeks longer than he should have and it was really evident that he needed to go and there was no reason to keep trying with him by the time he sent Fitz to the bench to babysit.
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- May 1, 2011
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I always liked Schlemko, even though I was not too happy when we signed him, I was afraid he'd block the kids, but I thought he was good here. Most of us wanted to bring him back, but he was about to turn 29 and I don't think he was ever getting brought back.
The Sharks wound up signing him to a 4 year deal (which we were NEVER gonna give him at 29) and he quickly fell out of favor with DeBoer and was a healthy scratch several times.
He wound up being the Sharks selection from Vegas in the expansion draft, but was later flipped that offseason to Montreal for draft picks. He started struggling with injuries in Montreal and was never the same and didn't play many more NHL games over the next couple of years.
He was traded to the Flyers, which I didn't even remember, but would never play a game for the NHL Flyers and the Flyers bought out the last year of his deal that offseason and he never played pro hockey again at any level. I actually didn't remember him ever getting traded to the Flyers and didn't know he was bought out. I just figured he went on LTIR the last year of his deal and that was the end of his career.
So a Monkey would've found Bratt in the 6th round?
I think Jim's point is that he got really lucky with a 6th round pick.
While, statistically, the chances of finding an NHL player (let alone someone of Bratt's level) in the 6th round are extremely slim, and therefore one might want to give a lot of credit to whomever made the call ... I think it's also very fair (and more accurate) to say that the Devils got very lucky ... if they thought he might develop into anything close to what he is ... they wouldn't have drafted 7 players before him. And they also drafted and then traded that player for Beau Bennett. So another opportunity to have drafted Bratt earlier.
So ... yeah ... they clearly didn't think they had much there
- Dec 20, 2018
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It’s not just hindsight if you look at the complete lack of depth everywhere, but particularly at defense. And the difficulty we would have filling that depth after trading those picks.
Also, if we were a playoff team we would have entered the 2020 TDL already missing our 2020 2nd or 3rd or 2021 2nd.
We also had a thinner prospect pool then we should have because we previously had zero extra 1sts or 2nds under Shero and had used one 2nd in last two drafts (2019 BOS 2nd #61 Okhotiuk).
Getting better costs assets.
I liked how Shero ran our drafts but it was always a bunch of later extra picks. We’re amazingly lucky that we hit as much as we did on these picks (Bratt, Sharangovich, Schmid) but that’s as much as you can hope for in later rounds.
Trading all those 2nds was bad. Sorry, there was no way that Summer of Shero roster had enough depth. You could have expected to get more from Subban, and I didn’t think he was going to be as awful as he was, and know the defense wasn’t there.
I thought we were trading for soon to be UFAs that we would likely flip, if possible, for less assets later, because we weren’t turning around that fast.
Also, I don’t care what fans thought at the time, right or wrong. It’s obviously bad if a GM makes a move everyone on earth sees as a bad at the time and in hindsight looks bad too. But that’s not the only thing that qualifies as bad.
And sorry, we were very bad at time the Summer of Shero, so saying we were likely to stay bad was more realistic. And they felt like moves to keep Hall, which felt dumb.
It’s like defending Dorian’s “win now” moves in Ottawa. Sorry, they don’t make sense without the winning part.
I’m not saying don’t make any trades, part of what’s frustrating is Shero had at least limited himself to trading away a bunch of “extra” picks.
But two of future 2nds, on top 34th pick, when we were just the 3rd worst team in the NHL? I still believe if it was different Metro team’s GM you would be way more critical.
I’ve said this multiple times recently so I’m going to try to stop repeating myself. I swear. I just don’t know why people have an issue with Shero being criticized. We’re successful because the Summer of Shero went tits up, he doesn’t get credit for us rising out of the ashes.
Shero appeared to be a very good executive. He filled out Hockey Management nicely, made some good hires and trades. I don’t think he did a terrible job. I thought he needed to be fired when he was fired though and that seemed to work out for us.
njdevils1982
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fitz's worst move: obtaining andreas the dud
fitz's best move: sending him out for timo
i think for the first time in a while i have no problems with anyone on the roster.....good times ahead
Eggtimer
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Pffft . I knew it was Bratt …… I was ummm thinking how hood Bratt looked and know Jack can do the same or better …. Ya that’s it
Since the start of the 2005-06 season, the Devils have traded 8 players who were selections made by them in the 1st round, who had never played for another franchise.
They are, as follows -
2007: David Hale, dealt with a 5th for a 3rd
2010: Niclas Bergfors, traded with a 1st, Cormier, and Oduya for Kovalchuk, a 2nd, and Salmela
2016: Stefan Matteau, traded for Devante Smith-Pelly
2016: Adam Larsson, traded for Taylor Hall
2019: John Quenneville, traded for John Hayden
2022: Pavel Zacha, traded for Erik Haula
2022: Ty Smith, traded with a 3rd for John Marino
2023: Shakir Mukhamadullin, traded with a billion guys + a 1st + conditional 1st for Timo Meier and a billion guys
It's pretty easy to gauge the relative worth of these players in trade. It's pretty easy to gauge the value of any prospect in a trade - some guys are throw-ins, some guys are the basis of the deal. Some players maintain much of their relative draft slot value, some guys get more, most players get less.
The Devils have traded 4 players they picked in the 2016 draft (Anderson, Rykov, Maltsev, Davies) and lost one to the expansion draft (Bastian). They also drafted a 1st line player in that draft (Bratt). They had a B+/A- sort of draft. Could've been an A+ had they drafted a future star in the 1st round.
They are, as follows -
2007: David Hale, dealt with a 5th for a 3rd
2010: Niclas Bergfors, traded with a 1st, Cormier, and Oduya for Kovalchuk, a 2nd, and Salmela
2016: Stefan Matteau, traded for Devante Smith-Pelly
2016: Adam Larsson, traded for Taylor Hall
2019: John Quenneville, traded for John Hayden
2022: Pavel Zacha, traded for Erik Haula
2022: Ty Smith, traded with a 3rd for John Marino
2023: Shakir Mukhamadullin, traded with a billion guys + a 1st + conditional 1st for Timo Meier and a billion guys
It's pretty easy to gauge the relative worth of these players in trade. It's pretty easy to gauge the value of any prospect in a trade - some guys are throw-ins, some guys are the basis of the deal. Some players maintain much of their relative draft slot value, some guys get more, most players get less.
The Devils have traded 4 players they picked in the 2016 draft (Anderson, Rykov, Maltsev, Davies) and lost one to the expansion draft (Bastian). They also drafted a 1st line player in that draft (Bratt). They had a B+/A- sort of draft. Could've been an A+ had they drafted a future star in the 1st round.
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JrFischer54
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Don’t feel bad. I have no idea what the job pays but there’s gotta be more lucrative jobs to get into. How the heck is there even a sales force to sell tickets in 2023?
Eggtimer
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Ya I was referring to Jack . I looked at the Bratt video and thought it was Jack so was talking about him and how he had a muffin for a shot thst he improved dramatically
JrFischer54
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Did any of those seconds that we so desperately needed actually turn out to be anything good. I’ve looked in the past and I don’t think they did.
Bottom line is this. Shero got here with shit players worth no trade value. His scouting department I’m sure was in no better condition as well as player development throughout the organization. If you think that can all be changed in short amount of time well i dunno what to tell you. Fast forward a few years with better trade chips you’re able to acquire better returns. To go from trading scraps for peanuts to trading hall palm Coleman for actual value. Smh
This isn’t over the top defense of Shero either it’s just being honest on what he did here. He did more good then bad that’s for sure.
JrFischer54
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Well we certainly wouldn’t have gotten a first from the yotes if he didn’t trade for hall. Not to mention getting bahl in that deal and the third which was later sent for sieg. All possible because you have better chips to trade.
Shero didn’t hand out bad contracts because he got lucky that no one wanted to sign in Nj at the time
He went after the likes of jvr,shattenkirk and trouba
Imagine those contracts right about now
He went after the likes of jvr,shattenkirk and trouba
Imagine those contracts right about now
Offseason Champs
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I don't have a horse in this race, or want one, but I was looking at the trade history and funny enough trading Wedgewood to Arizona got us the pick that got us Akira Schmid. That may end up being a good one.
JrFischer54
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You mention all those players but you realize we were a rebuilding team. What do you really expect to get for a second round pick? A lot of players that buried in good teams and go to a basement team and put in higher lineup spot aren’t going to produce. Eh whatever you think what you want
JrFischer54
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I don’t know if I believe that. You could argue being taken that late makes the player want it more and drives them more to work harder. Pretty much Tom Brady saying that
Offseason Champs
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A few other interesting Shero trades (in terms of results not at the time)
in 2019:
the 2nd traded in the PK deal turned into Bobby Brink
Ben Lovejoy trade package included a pick that turned into Graeme Clarke
This one is a little wild.
Boyle trade turned into a 2nd that we then flipped for two 3rds, one of which is Vukojevik, the other of which we flipped for a 4th and a 5th. The 4th is Case McCarthy and the 5th is Arseni Gritsyuk.
The 2nd round pick that was originally for the Boyle trade is Dillon Hamaliuk in the Pens system now, and the 3rd we traded is Aliaksei Protas for the Capitals.
Break it all the way down and it's Brian Boyle for Vukojevik, Case McCarthy, and Arseni Gritsyuk. Not much of anything yet but... hey.
One last fun fact. Dillon Hamaliuk joined the Penguins in the Erik Karlsson trade.
in 2019:
the 2nd traded in the PK deal turned into Bobby Brink
Ben Lovejoy trade package included a pick that turned into Graeme Clarke
This one is a little wild.
Boyle trade turned into a 2nd that we then flipped for two 3rds, one of which is Vukojevik, the other of which we flipped for a 4th and a 5th. The 4th is Case McCarthy and the 5th is Arseni Gritsyuk.
The 2nd round pick that was originally for the Boyle trade is Dillon Hamaliuk in the Pens system now, and the 3rd we traded is Aliaksei Protas for the Capitals.
Break it all the way down and it's Brian Boyle for Vukojevik, Case McCarthy, and Arseni Gritsyuk. Not much of anything yet but... hey.
One last fun fact. Dillon Hamaliuk joined the Penguins in the Erik Karlsson trade.
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