Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Guttersniped]

Yeah, Foote, the guy they called up, didn't play in the top 6, he played in the bottom 6. This is my point.

And Bratt didn't move freely between the top 3 lines. 90% of his toi was with Hughes or Nico. Tatar was at 80%.

Shara was with Hughes in the top 6, then was demoted to and never returned. This will probably be an example where I don't have the actual splits, so you'll dispute it, but anyone who watched knows this is true.

Is there some movement between guys who struggle and drop down to the 3rd like Shara or Palat, or vice versa with Mercer? Yes there is. But guess what, Shara played 167 minutes with McLeod too (again 2nd half of the year). Zetterlund played 200 minutes with Nico, and 100 minutes with McLeod. So there is movement throughout the lineup.

We’ve reach that magical moment where I don’t even know what you guys are debating about but here yay go:

Spoiler: 2022-23 Hockey Viz charts & stuff

Spoiler: 2021-22 Hockey Viz charts and stuff

Yer welcome.

 

[devilsblood]

We’ve reach that magical moment where I don’t even know what you guys are debating about but here yay go:

Spoiler: 2022-23 Hockey Viz charts & stuff

View attachment 735133View attachment 735135View attachment 735134View attachment 735136View attachment 735139View attachment 735140View attachment 735138

Spoiler: 2021-22 Hockey Viz charts and stuff

View attachment 735141View attachment 735142View attachment 735143View attachment 735144View attachment 735148View attachment 735145View attachment 735146

Yer welcome.

Well I've never understood these charts you post so it's all good.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I think it’s pretty clear that Devils execs had higher hopes for Foote in the past than they do going into this season.

I say it’s clear but i have no hard evidence for it aside from that blurb from an interview i’ve mostly forgotten, and i don’t plan i finding anything more than that. He’s not that good, he used to have some promise, now he sorta doesn’t but maybe he can still be a good third line winger. Is there more to it than that?

 

[My3Sons]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-jersey-devils/features/devils-foote-could-follow-in-bastians-footsteps-as-he-learns-to-reinvent-his-game

"I don't know how many people go through their careers, and their game changes as drastically as mine has," he explained. "When I was younger, I was scoring goals, toe dragging, and I don't have the skill to do that at this level. It's a matter of knowing your game, believing in it, and finding a way to contribute."

When speaking about Foote, Fitzgerald said, "I think with our guidance and help through our development team and coaches (in Utica) educating him on what he would look like at the NHL level, how he would be successful, and try to help him reinvent himself."

If Foote earns a roster spot for the 2023-24 season, he will likely serve a bottom-six role, like Bastian. Utica Comets general manager Dan MacKinnon alluded to as much during an interview with Ben Birnell of Sentinel Media.

"We've been happy with Nolan Foote from a maturity standpoint in his game and a commitment to playing a style of game that will keep him in the NHL one day full-time."

"A heavier presence on the wing. He's in traffic more. He's a little more physical, causing turnovers, MacKinnon continued. "All that great stuff that can translate to a middle six or bottom six role in the NHL rather than trying to define your game as just a straight shooter."

Fitz has given other interviews where he explained that he had to reinvent himself as a former first round pick who could not play a skilled role in the NHL and he embraced it. My recollection is that he first talked about that issue with McLeod a few years ago. It's good to see him take an interest in the depth guys. On some teams I imagine they are treated as fungible goods.

 

[devilsblood]

Fitz has given other interviews where he explained that he had to reinvent himself as a former first round pick who could not play a skilled role in the NHL and he embraced it. My recollection is that he first talked about that issue with McLeod a few years ago. It's good to see him take an interest in the depth guys. On some teams I imagine they are treated as fungible goods.

That's interesting that Fitz having had to reinvent his game, is now able to identify young players who also need to make that change of style, and has it as a focus to guide those players to do just that.

 

[My3Sons]

That's interesting that Fitz having had to reinvent his game, is now able to identify young players who also need to make that change of style, and has it as a focus to guide those players to do just that.

Fitz seems like a pretty candid and genuine guy. I don’t doubt he feels kinship with a player that has to go through that process to carve out an NHL role.

 

[devilsblood]

Fitz seems like a pretty candid and genuine guy. I don’t doubt he feels kinship with a player that has to go through that process to carve out an NHL role.

And I think he is probably able to communicate that the transition is not a negative, but a positive.

Which helps these guys embrace the change of roles as a new track to success, instead of thinking their careers have been derailed.

 

[devilsblood]

I think it’s pretty clear that Devils execs had higher hopes for Foote in the past than they do going into this season.

I say it’s clear but i have no hard evidence for it aside from that blurb from an interview i’ve mostly forgotten, and i don’t plan i finding anything more than that. He’s not that good, he used to have some promise, now he sorta doesn’t but maybe he can still be a good third line winger. Is there more to it than that?

I think your timeline is off. If they had higher hopes it was just after they acquired him, they transitioned pretty quickly.

They realized he was not going to be a high end offensive players whiles ago. The goal has been as a physical bottom 6 guy, hopefully one who can score some goals due to his shot.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It’s good that we can just bicker about who will fill out the 3rd or 4th line or whatever instead of hoping and praying to find a crumb of 1st line/1st pairing talent. A prospect like Holtz or even Foote to some degree would be seen as some pivotal piece in the past and now they’re basically just in the “it would be nice if they were pretty good” bin. They could both flop and it isn’t a huge deal.

 

[Billdo]

For anyone who listens, even those who don't, Fitz was the interview on Spittin Chiclets this week.

 

[devilsblood]

It’s good that we can just bicker

Say no more my friend.

 

[My3Sons]

Say no more my friend.

People that live in glass houses.....

 

[Bleedred]

For anyone who listens, even those who don't, Fitz was the interview on Spittin Chiclets this week.

I'm gonna have to listen to it.

I bet this didn't happen, but I'd love for Biz to bring up how he still hopes we don't make the conference finals again this year, so he doesn't have to get NJ tattooed on his ass as per the lost bet.

 

[devilsblood]

People that live in glass houses.....

Shouldn't masturbate in the daytime?

 

[Better Call Sal]

Shouldn't masturbate in the daytime?

Hey, do I criticize your hobbies?

 

[My3Sons]

Shouldn't masturbate in the daytime?

But that’s not funny either. Either everyone gets to indulge their own funny bone or no one does. The ToS don’t ban humor you don’t like because you don’t think it’s funny.

 

[devilsblood]

But that’s not funny either. Either everyone gets to indulge their own funny bone or no one does. The ToS don’t ban humor you don’t like because you don’t think it’s funny.

Perv.

But you do know I was busting your chops? I thought we agreed we weren't being serious.

 

[Triumph]

The AHL literally is a development league, they have rules making it a development league.

Why not give a prospect special team work if you want him to work on that? Why else would the Devils own an AHL team? To compete for Calder Cup glory?

I'm skeptical of the efficacy of 'development'. I more think that the AHL is a place to store people who didn't make the NHL team. Obviously there's more practices, players are given opportunities they might otherwise not receive, and occasionally players do massively improve there.

I didn't say it was bad to give prospects special teams work in the AHL. For a guy who didn't kill penalties in junior and whose skating is dodgy, the reason to do this is likely to give that player more to think about how time and space work on the rink. It's fine. I'm skeptical he's going to do it at the NHL level, that's all.

McLeod definitely played a shut down role in the AHL and he was developed in the AHL. Do people think the team doesn’t know what’s happening with these guys? That player development is a myth?

They do know, and surely there is some ego checking and working on less flashy stuff, but he was still playing a different role down there.

Yeah, Foote, the guy they called up, didn't play in the top 6, he played in the bottom 6. This is my point.

It's a silly point but okay, I will grant you that the guy they called up as like the 16th forward played mostly with the bottom of the roster.

And Bratt didn't move freely between the top 3 lines. 90% of his toi was with Hughes or Nico. Tatar was at 80%.

Bratt is the one guy who was rarely put on a 3rd line. Everyone else was, and Bratt certainly was the year before.

Shara was with Hughes in the top 6, then was demoted and never returned. This will probably be an example where I don't have the actual splits, so you'll dispute it, but anyone who watched knows this is true.

'Anyone who watched' knew the Devils power play wasn't very good at passing. It wouldn't be that hard to find the actual splits, but I agree with you that this is my perception of how the season went also.

Is there some movement between guys who struggle and drop down to the 3rd like Shara or Palat, or vice versa with Mercer? Yes there is. But guess what, Shara played 167 minutes with McLeod too (again 2nd half of the year). Zetterlund played 200 minutes with Nico, and 100 minutes with McLeod. So there is movement throughout the lineup.

This is my point. There is movement throughout the lineup.

"A heavier presence on the wing. He's in traffic more. He's a little more physical, causing turnovers, MacKinnon continued. "All that great stuff that can translate to a middle six or bottom six role in the NHL rather than trying to define your game as just a straight shooter."

I'm always deeply skeptical of this sort of article, which I redacted for space reasons, because I've seen it written about 20 guys, and yeah, Foote likely did have to unlearn some habits from junior hockey, but also they're going to impress on him how much different his game is now. He'll also have learned a lot more about how to use time and space in the intervening 3 years.

If he was just going to the shooting areas and waiting for the puck to show up there for him, yeah that's not going to work in the NHL for all but like 5 guys, maybe.

 

[devilsblood]

This is my point. There is movement throughout the lineup.

No you're point was the movement from our wingers was in the top 9. But there is movement throughout the lineup. Does that mean there is no distinction between any of the lines? No, of course not. There was a very clear distinction on the Devils.


Now Fitz is trying to create a top 9 environment in NJ. He recently said as much. Maybe we see a 3rd line with Meier, or some other mix which makes that a reality. But in recent years we've very much been a top 6 team, and I wouldn't be surprised if we are again.

Nice redaction though. Just ignore all the quotes which contradict your argument. It was your only play so I don't blame you.

 

[My3Sons]

Perv.

But you do know I was busting your chops? I thought we agreed we weren't being serious.

I lose track at times. I’m old. It happens like when I forget to change my depends.

 

[Billdo]

I'm gonna have to listen to it.

I bet this didn't happen, but I'd love for Biz to bring up how he still hopes we don't make the conference finals again this year, so he doesn't have to get NJ tattooed on his ass as per the lost bet.

He mentioned it.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I didn't say that you said he played center. What I said was 'he played center'. That's because he did play center.



Change course how? That course has already been determined a long time ago. It is rare that e.g. players who don't kill penalties in the AHL start killing them in the NHL and it's usually because of other considerations that they do.



Due to lack of alternatives in NJ? What are you talking about? You've also given no evidence that Foote's transition happened in the AHL except that he played with a guy who was a defensive specialist in the NHL (but is not one in the AHL, he scored at a 2nd line rate there).

Because due to the weaknesses at Center he progressed quickly up the lineup and was the #2 and at times the #1 in the 2nd half of that season. He was not playing a defensive role at all even though he could still defend with top line wingers. He was dearly missed by the top 2 lines when he missed the last few games and the playoffs with an injury of his own.

 

[Nubmer6]

I bet this didn't happen, but I'd love for Biz to bring up how he still hopes we don't make the conference finals again this year, so he doesn't have to get NJ tattooed on his ass as per the lost bet.

He was trying to get Fitz's stamp of approval to back out of the bet.

 

[TrufleShufle]

He was trying to get Fitz's stamp of approval to back out of the bet.

So glad he shut him down quick on that.

 

[devilsblood]

I lose track at times. I’m old. It happens like when I forget to change my depends.

So not funny