Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[NjDevsRR]

The issue there is in a relatively weak UFA class, he probably wants to cash in one final time. I've been team don't re-sign him but I wouldn't hate a 2-3 year deal if the AAV is right. Issue is you can't have about, what, 11-12M in Palat and Toff?

Absolutely depends if he takes a friendly deal. If not Fitz will get a good return.

Will be interesting to see what happens if we are still on the playoff bubble come TDL, and the state of the team in terms of health

 

[theoptimist]

I think I'd rather have a 1st than an extended Toffoli with Holtz looking so good. I'd then like to move a first this offseason for Ullmark.

I'd rather go after Chandler Stephenson with Toffoli's money. I doubt he leaves VGK tho

 

[JrFischer54]

Your idea of getting someone "average" I think is unrealistic. Many goalies are having a rough season, and then random ones are playing unexpectedly well (Lindgren, Adin Hill, Montembault). Everyone is going to come with question marks.

But, if your point is that the goalie options aren't going to improve in the off-season so Fitz might as well make a move now vs waiting until the off-season to take our medicine - that's interesting.

I still favor waiting only because the current options are unappealing and I hope something else might shake loose this summer. Personally, I don't see how the goalies who are rumored to be available will help us materially this year.

I also think it takes time for players to adjust to new teams. So, it's not clear that picking someone up now helps us this year. Sometimes they'll need a full year (see Dougie and Timo - though both are impacted by injury).

It's why I was wanting to pick up Spencer Maritn. He was moving anyway. And he would have been free and immediate. We'd have had a chance to see if he could put together some random "change of scenery" win streak that could at least buy us time - whether to see what happens with the goalie market this year, or until the off-season.

Vitek has set this team back so much this year that literally anyone on that list would be an improvement just from the sake of being on a new club and going on a heater possibly. An average goalie we probably have 8 more points if not more.

I dunno who Fitz will get but I doubt it will be saros quality so again we get a meh goalie now or get him in the summer. If he doesn’t make a move then I don’t even want this team to bother making the playoffs to just get bounced in 4

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Absolutely depends if he takes a friendly deal. If not Fitz will get a good return.

Will be interesting to see what happens if we are still on the playoff bubble come TDL, and the state of the team in terms of health

If they're on the bubble, they're going act like he's their rental for the rest of the year without making extra moves. Not sure I agree with it but it is what it is at this point. It also depends if Jack is back or doesn't have a set back

 

[JrFischer54]

Not sure if your lack of reasoning or lack of punctuation is more infuriating.

Saying he should just be "targeting any of them" is severely short-sighted, as we'd be potentially stuck with the high cap hits for another 3 1/2 seasons for a couple of those options. There are other teams such as Carolina, Toronto and Edmonton that are just as, if not more, desperate than us for a goaltending upgrade and guess what...none of them have made moves either. Maybe it's because the acquisition costs being asked right now are sky-high. You seem to be saying doing literally anything - even if it's a bad deal - is preferable to Fitz doing nothing and not getting raked over the coals.

We're about 5 weeks out from the trade deadline - let's have a little patience and see what happens between now and then, what goaltenders do get moved at what acquisition costs and then roast Fitz if appropriate.

sorry not sorry

The guy asked me who he should target he gave a list I said he should be looking into any of them now that means it’s automatic going to be a bad move? a bad contract? come on now I also never said to do a bad deal I do think not doing anything when your playing Vitek is a bad move. Just because one team gets one goalie doesnt mean the devils would’ve gotten him for similar price
Do you really believe in the summer the market and ask is going to be substantially different then today? Esp considering if other teams don’t bite now for a goalie?

I definitely think Toffoli could fetch a 1st. High scoring top-6 winger, playoff experience. Also not too expensive cap wise.

How about we keep players that can put the puck in the net and try and resign them? No thanks on a mid round 1st round pick

 

[NjDevsRR]

I actually like Toffoli a lot. He is the right shot vet we needed. Yes, hes slow but he will do fine with Jack. Fitz has to make sure the bottom 6 is faster next season to compensate. I want some more speed on the wings in the bottom 6. Especially with no McLeod.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

We never needed it. Didnt affect anything so I just didnt think we really cared about it lol

We had to put Dougie on LTIR now cause with the 2 callups and McLeod / Foote contracts still on the books we were over the cap otherwise

So just laziness? I can get behind that.

I imagine they would have done it at some point to get the savings, and i guess now is that time.

 

[Forge]

I'd rather go after Chandler Stephenson with Toffoli's money. I doubt he leaves VGK tho

On the other hand, VGK don't always let their guys stay lol

 

[BurntToast]

Just because Graves and Sevs are playing poorly on team xyz, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make the Devils better. I feel like you are delusional @Devils Trap.

My point. If Fitz didn’t panic sign Palat to a 6M contract, the Devils could of kept 1 of Graves or Sev. This has nothing to do with Hughes and Nemec. I would rather have a 4 or 6 million per defenseman, instead of Palats contract.

2nd issue, healthy or not this team hasn’t played well, and Toffoli is close to scoring at a 40 goal pace. This team needs to get better on defense or goaltending or they won’t win shit. The Devils will end up like the Leafs with a loaded offense and nothing to show for it. They hope is you sell high on Toffoli, and 1) restock for sustained success or get a goalie or defenseman.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Just because Graves and Sevs are playing poorly on team xyz, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make the Devils better. I feel like you are delusional @Devils Trap.

My point. If Fitz didn’t panic sign Palat to a 6M contract, the Devils could of kept 1 of Graves or Sev. This has nothing to do with Hughes and Nemec. I would rather have a 4 or 6 million per defenseman, instead of Palats contract.

2nd issue, healthy or not this team hasn’t played well, and Toffoli is close to scoring at a 40 goal pace. This team needs to get better on defense or goaltending or they won’t win shit. The Devils will end up like the Leafs with a loaded offense and nothing to show for it. They hope is you sell high on Toffoli, and 1) restock for sustained success or get a goalie or defenseman.

like I said, Ryan Graves and Damon Severson aint helping you with anything. And if you had re-signed one of them, you likely don't have Nemec up at all right now. Who by the way is playing already better than those guys.

The Palat signing has nothing to do with anything. Its like 7% of the salary cap.

 

[Devils731]

So just laziness? I can get behind that.

I imagine they would have done it at some point to get the savings, and i guess now is that time.

I think there is something about wanting to have your cap as high as possible before using LTIR to maximize LTIR space added.

I didn’t totally get it when I read up on it but apparently the rest of your cap makeup matters when a guy goes on LTIR. So maybe something related to that.

 

[HBK27]

So just laziness? I can get behind that.

I imagine they would have done it at some point to get the savings, and i guess now is that time.

It's not laziness - Devils were still accruing cap space while they were not over the cap limit on LTIR so there was no point in putting Dougie on LTRI until they absolutely needed to.

I know at the beginning of the season there are tricks you use to maximize cap space, but I'm not sure if/how that applies in-season. There were certainly reasons as to why they waited though.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I mean, the point that Severson and Graves would be better here than elsewhere and where they actually signed isn't that great of a point as to why you should keep them. We should be better than CBJ/PIT, it's the asset management that ultimately drove them out.

 

[Call Me Al]

no team can keep all of their vets once they hit 27-28, it’s a matter of deciding who is a core piece that you want into their 30s. A case could be made for Sevs and I really like him, but with the pipeline we have it’s not the best use of assets to spend that much on mid to bottom pairing D men.

there’s clearly a year of growing pains and being decimated by injuries hurts, but both of those guys are signed for 6-8 years. i would love for someone here to say that we will have been better off in years 3-8 with these guys signed, with the cap space required for that, than we will be as it is

 

[Lou Bloom]

Toffoli's a good player but he's a floater on a team that needs to play at a higher pace. Holtz has shown enough this season to earn a spot higher in the lineup and can replace Toffoli in the lineup. Fitz should focus on adding forwards that can forecheck, win puck battles, play good defense and play good complimentary hockey.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Just because Graves and Sevs are playing poorly on team xyz, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make the Devils better. I feel like you are delusional @Devils Trap.

My point. If Fitz didn’t panic sign Palat to a 6M contract, the Devils could of kept 1 of Graves or Sev. This has nothing to do with Hughes and Nemec. I would rather have a 4 or 6 million per defenseman, instead of Palats contract.

2nd issue, healthy or not this team hasn’t played well, and Toffoli is close to scoring at a 40 goal pace. This team needs to get better on defense or goaltending or they won’t win shit. The Devils will end up like the Leafs with a loaded offense and nothing to show for it. They hope is you sell high on Toffoli, and 1) restock for sustained success or get a goalie or defenseman.

We were never bringing Severson back, and it had nothing to do with Palat. Just way too much money to a 3rd pairing D with Nemec ready (and already better than Severson). Miller was the right move. Marginally worse, but on a 1 year deal — he’s been more than fine.

Graves is whatever. Better than Bahl, but a very mediocre player and a net negative on the contract he signed.

The defense is down the entire 1st pairing, that’s a big reason for some struggles. Siegs was having a poor year, but his loss still put way more pressure on everyone else.

Palat needs to stay healthy, but he’s been the second best defensive forward on the team and his underlying numbers have been sensational. I get not wanting the deal on the back end, but is he not close to exactly what we’d want come playoff time?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Also I'd be remissed if I didn't mention CGY's firesale currently. If we wanted Fitz to save this year, he'd be on the phone with Conroy for one of Tanev/Hanifin and Markstrom

 

[BurntToast]

like I said, Ryan Graves and Damon Severson aint helping you with anything. And if you had re-signed one of them, you likely don't have Nemec up at all right now. Who by the way is playing already better than those guys.

The Palat signing has nothing to do with anything. Its like 7% of the salary cap.

Who said you can’t have Graves over Bahl, with Nemec and Hughes in?!

There is no point talking about it. They let Graves and Sevs walk, a calculated risk that backfired.

Palat makes like 7% but his contract in AVV could of went to a different/more useful player. Does that help you understand or are you still having a hard time grasping simple math?

 

[JrFischer54]

People want to sell tofolli when he’s going to put up 30-35 with this depleted roster. You get rid of him for a mid first. Who are you getting to replace him? Are there a lot of 30+ goal scorers out there on the market this summer? Think they will be cheap?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I'd 100% rather have Palat than Ryan Graves. I'd certainly rather Palat's contract than Severson's given the makeup of the current roster.

so no, your point isn't really making much sense.

 

[JrFischer54]

Also I'd be remissed if I didn't mention CGY's firesale currently. If we wanted Fitz to save this year, he'd be on the phone with Conroy for one of Tanev/Hanifin and Markstrom

He absolutely should be.

 

[Call Me Al]

Toffoli's a good player but he's a floater on a team that needs to play at a higher pace. Holtz has shown enough this season to earn a spot higher in the lineup and can replace Toffoli in the lineup. Fitz should focus on adding forwards that can forecheck, win puck battles, play good defense and play good complimentary hockey.

this exactly. yes toffoli has a good shot and gets streaky where he puts up points, but i don’t think he fits the tempo of how this team tries to play. he’s not that great on the forecheck or the breakout. he had a hot 2 weeks with jack and than a month where jack barely put up any even strength points and that was the only combo that went unchanged. their chemistry is wildly exaggerated and honestly i would rather see holtz in his place long term

 

[Devs3cups]

sorry not sorry

The guy asked me who he should target he gave a list I said he should be looking into any of them now that means it’s automatic going to be a bad move? a bad contract? come on now I also never said to do a bad deal I do think not doing anything when your playing Vitek is a bad move. Just because one team gets one goalie doesnt mean the devils would’ve gotten him for similar price
Do you really believe in the summer the market and ask is going to be substantially different then today? Esp considering if other teams don’t bite now for a goalie?

How about we keep players that can put the puck in the net and try and resign them? No thanks on a mid round 1st round pick

Toff is a good player, and if he stays he stays, but I don’t really see him as a fit and I’d rather save the money for our core young guys down the line.

 

[Call Me Al]

Who said you can’t have Graves over Bahl, with Nemec and Hughes in?!

There is no point talking about it. They let Graves and Sevs walk, a calculated risk that backfired.

Palat makes like 7% but his contract in AVV could have went to a different/more useful player. Does that help you understand or are you still having a hard time grasping simple math?

it backfired in year 1 but we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot long term tying ourselves up for the next half decade with them. it’s not even a question

 

[jkrdevil]

When was the last time the Cowboys were successful?

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying. But getting eyes on a franchise whose previous GM did everything he could to repress the public eye from knowing anything at all about it or its players isn't a bad thing right now. It's about winning, yes. But it's also about entertainment, and winning is only one part of that. It's the most important part for us diehards, but it might not always be for casual or new fans when picking a team. Or for the media when covering a team.

Awful example. The Cowboys literally won their division this year and finished 2nd in the NFC. They been a consistent competitor NFL team for past 18 years after a brief step back in the late 90’s following winning 3 Super Bowls. Not to mentions the Cowboys are the Cowboys because the were the league’s most consistent winners from the Mid-60’s into the 80’s.

I’m not saying making big player acquisitions are in themselves bad, but you have to back them up. At the end of the day no one cares about individual players in team sports. Star players are star players because they make their teams winners. You have to win first and establish credibility then you can then you can do the extra marketing.

But if you try doing the second before the first, you end up looking like a jackass. Or worse you look like the f***ing Jets where everyone knows who have no clue what you are doing.

PK coming here was like the Browns drafting Manziel or the Jaguars hiring Urban Meyer. Got a sugar high of attention, but hurt credibility of the team. And of course the building was empty PK’s entire tenure here.