Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[JimEIV]

Terrible move for NJ might depend on your perspective. He no doubt brought attention to the team and was exceptionally marketable. And is now our biggest hype man. That probably translates to dollars for the team, even if it didn't translate to more wins.

Two second rounders for a 189 games at -45 of a broken down Dman with a massive burden of contract that Nashville should've paid us to take is what made it terrible.

 

[Killing Joke]

It does suck about Subban because you could see flashes of what he was even in his last year here. But that would be it, he’d use like one bit of energy for one of his prime like rushes then would be cooked for the game.

 

[OmNomNom]

i mean idk if anyone's into wrestling, but i did come across this yesterday, ironically



he doesn't seem out of shape (disclaimer, not saying to 100% get him, but moreso acknowledging he isn't out of shape)

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[MasterofGrond]

mods ban this user for a NSFL post

 

[JrFischer54]

Tom is a massive failure if he throws a season of contention away and sits still for the offseason. What a pud. And we extended this f***ing idiot. https://x.com/myNHLTradeRumor/status/1752772986526970161?s=20

i know this will make a ton of people happy because they dont want to waste a pick to get someone. smh this season is a waste then even if they make the playoffs. if he doesn't land a legit top goalie in the summer then he should go. you can't punt on this season and then go into next year with another unknown goalie aka vitek 2.0 just simply can't do it

 

[Billdo]

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment because I'm having withdrawal even though we've played like shit the last two months.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Two second rounders for a 189 games at -45 of a broken down Dman with a massive burden of contract that Nashville should've paid us to take is what made it terrible.

I get the on ice part. I'm saying sometimes the publicity is worth more, and that's important to owners looking to increase the value of the franchise.

 

[Nubmer6]

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment because I'm having withdrawal even though we've played like shit the last two months.

Frankly, aside from a few one-offs, I don't feel like we've been firing on all cylinders from day 1 of the season. I don't know if it's the added pressure of last year, loss of defensemen, or what, but even the wins we've had were mostly squeaked out and left me an uneasy feeling.

 

[My3Sons]

i know this will make a ton of people happy because they dont want to waste a pick to get someone. smh this season is a waste then even if they make the playoffs. if he doesn't land a legit top goalie in the summer then he should go. you can't punt on this season and then go into next year with another unknown goalie aka vitek 2.0 just simply can't do it

I'm skeptical a difference making goalie can be acquired with a single pick? More likely the Gibsons and Markstroms of the world are hoping to return Mercer. I am skeptical Fitz is sitting on his hands when he has said multiple times he wants to add a goalie. Either the goalies on the block are all bad or the prices are unrealistic. Let's see if a real goalie moves anytime soon and what the price paid would be. In general, the trade market seems a bit slow to me this season.

 

[youryeah]

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment because I'm having withdrawal even though we've played like shit the last two months.

same! win or lose I wish there was a game on every night. I just really watching my favorite team play hockey

 

[JrFischer54]

Two second rounders for a 189 games at -45 of a broken down Dman with a massive burden of contract that Nashville should've paid us to take is what made it terrible.

none of the package that went to nashville turned into much of anything and the devils got a washed up player that didn't do much on the ice for them but is well worth it off the ice in terms of marketing and visibility.

 

[Devils Trap]

I'm skeptical a difference making goalie can be acquired with a single pick? More likely the Gibsons and Markstroms of the world are hoping to return Mercer. I am skeptical Fitz is sitting on his hands when he has said multiple times he wants to add a goalie. Either the goalies on the block are all bad or the prices are unrealistic. Let's see if a real goalie moves anytime soon and what the price paid would be. In general, the trade market seems a bit slow to me this season.

Its a pretty big difference.

5 on 5, the Devils are like 5th in the entire NHL by every advanced analytic. Problem is we are at like -20 goals more then expected to have given up. Thats loads of points given up the course of the year. If we were dead even, Id argue that 8-10 more points for the team.

I agree with the first part. Because o the market, goalies are severely overpriced. None of what you said is worth Mercer, Saros may be but even he is a UFA in 16 months.

It seems to me the only fix is hoping the ask comes down OR hoping that Vitek goes back to last season, which he has been better of late. Basically we will need an in house fix with one of Vitek, Daws, Schmid to figure it out

 

[Better Call Sal]

For the goaltending conversation, again, there hasn't been a goalie worth a damn moved all season long unless you wanted to pick one up off the waiver wire. Likely because the cost would be significant given supply and demand. There are too many teams that would love an upgrade in goal and not enough worthwhile ones available.

If you want Fitz to potentially overpay for a goalie, that's fine. But don't be surprised when the cost ends up being more than you might have envisioned.

 

[JrFischer54]

I'm skeptical a difference making goalie can be acquired with a single pick? More likely the Gibsons and Markstroms of the world are hoping to return Mercer. I am skeptical Fitz is sitting on his hands when he has said multiple times he wants to add a goalie. Either the goalies on the block are all bad or the prices are unrealistic. Let's see if a real goalie moves anytime soon and what the price paid would be. In general, the trade market seems a bit slow to me this season.

this is all based on IF the team gets healthy this season before the playoffs only fitz knows so maybe he knows they won't ?

i dunno if a single pick gets it done but as long as long as its not an A level prospect or a roster player i would make a move. even if you sneak in as the 8 seed this team still needs as much playoff exposure you can get. its a win now mode you have to try and actually win now. you punt because goalie prices are high? they are going to be just as high 6 months from now. if gibson and markstrom is what he will finally settle on in the summer just bite the bullet and get the guy now.

 

[Better Call Sal]

this is all based on IF the team gets healthy this season before the playoffs only fitz knows so maybe he knows they won't ?

i dunno if a single pick gets it done but as long as long as its not an A level prospect or a roster player i would make a move. even if you sneak in as the 8 seed this team still needs as much playoff exposure you can get. its a win now mode you have to try and actually win now. you punt because goalie prices are high? they are going to be just as high 6 months from now. if gibson and markstrom is what he will finally settle on in the summer just bite the bullet and get the guy now.

That isn't necessarily true. Teams are more open to making moves in the offseason since there's more flexibility on what can be done. It's why you didn't see a guy like Erik Karlsson dealt mid-season last year due to the size of his contract.

That's why Pagnotta said he thinks Fitz could wait until the summer because he might be targeting someone with term. But I think he's just speculating. He's really hit or miss when it comes to this stuff.

 

[jkrdevil]

I get the on ice part. I'm saying sometimes the publicity is worth more, and that's important to owners looking to increase the value of the franchise.

The hype without the actual performance probably actually cost the Devils from a business standpoint. It hurt the front office’s credibility to be able to point at other moves to show progress. Maybe without that the crowds come back faster during last season than they did. Maybe the don’t even hit as low as they did during the first half of last season.

Hype without substance only hurts long term. It is the boy who cries wolf.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Seeing Kappo Kakko on the trade block just made me really want to log on here and remind folks of all the crap I took for saying there were such a wide gulf between Jack Hughes and Kakko that there was no debate at the top of the 2019 draft.

Sometimes it's just better to be nice.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

The hype without the actual performance probably actually cost the Devils from a business standpoint. It hurt the front office’s credibility to be able to point at other moves to show progress. Maybe without that the crowds come back faster during last season than they did. Maybe the don’t even hit as low as they did during the first half of last season.

Hype without substance only hurts long term. It is the boy who cries wolf.

When was the last time the Cowboys were successful?

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying. But getting eyes on a franchise whose previous GM did everything he could to repress the public eye from knowing anything at all about it or it's players isn't a bad thing right now. It's about winning, yes. But it's also about entertainment, and winning is only one part of that. It's the most important part for us diehards, but it might not always be for casual or new fans when picking a team. Or for the media when covering a team.

 

[NJDevs26]

Seeing Kappo Kakko on the trade block just made me really want to log on here and remind folks of all the crap I took for saying there were such a wide gulf between Jack Hughes and Kakko that there was no debate at the top of the 2019 draft.

Sometimes it's just better to be nice.

That was one of the worst debates here (which is saying something) with people lazily comparing it to 2017 and complaining we should give the #2 more consideration because of Nico-Nolan as if that happens in more than a handful of drafts

 

[JrFischer54]

That isn't necessarily true. Teams are more open to making moves in the offseason since there's more flexibility on what can be done. It's why you didn't see a guy like Erik Karlsson dealt mid-season last year due to the size of his contract.

That's why Pagnotta said he thinks Fitz could wait until the summer because he might be targeting someone with term. But I think he's just speculating. He's really hit or miss when it comes to this stuff.

i get it thats when "big trades" happen is at the draft and the summer but if demand is still high teams aren't going to change their approach. maybe they will but thats a big gamble and again if its for gibson markstrom who he can get now and try and salvage a playoff push? well the savings better be astronomical in the summer.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Tom is a massive failure if he throws a season of contention away and sits still for the offseason. What a pud. And we extended this f***ing idiot. https://x.com/myNHLTradeRumor/status/1752772986526970161?s=20

Yeah it would be much better if Tom gave up multiple picks for Kaapo Kahkonen or some other loser only for them to be marginally better than what we have.

 

[tailfins]

i know this will make a ton of people happy because they dont want to waste a pick to get someone. smh this season is a waste then even if they make the playoffs. if he doesn't land a legit top goalie in the summer then he should go. you can't punt on this season and then go into next year with another unknown goalie aka vitek 2.0 just simply can't do it

You keep saying stuff like this, but not identifying who to get. Who is a "legit goalie" that Fitz should get?

Is it Gibson? Or Markstrom? Or Elvis? Elvis sucks. Marstrom is 75 years old and inconsistent. Gibson has been outplayed by his back-ups for years. Are these guys legit? Or are they vitek 2.0?

Or is it Saros - who is currently ranked 46th by Moneypuck in Goals Saved Above Average / 60 (min 10 games)? And who turns 29 at the end of this year and is having by far his worst season? Will we then be complaining about a second time Nashville dumped a has been superstar on us? I'm actually all for taking the risk on Saros, but there's no way you can say he's definitely going to fix the Devils' issues in net.

Swayman seems unrealistic. I doubt the Bruins trade him, and if they do I can't see them trading him to a contender in the East.

Askarov, Wallstedt, Wolf, and Levi are pipe dreams. The only way those guys get traded is if their org is giving up on them for some reason.

Which maybe happens with Knight? He's obviously coming back from whatever issue (OCD?), and he wasn't great before going out. So, maybe Florida cuts bait. But, with that history, is he "legit"?

Totally not clear what it is you want Fitz to do other than wave a magic wand and make the pain go away.

 

[My3Sons]

Seeing Kappo Kakko on the trade block just made me really want to log on here and remind folks of all the crap I took for saying there were such a wide gulf between Jack Hughes and Kakko that there was no debate at the top of the 2019 draft.

Sometimes it's just better to be nice.

Meh. Hughes still hasn’t played against men and watching those wide pond hockey turns really gets frustrating they take so long. I think he’s still coming out of the corner from the last game he played weeks ago. Rangers schooled NJ who obviously panicked and took Hughes.

 

[Guttersniped]

Scott Wheeler is doing his Mid-Season Prospect Pool Rankings.
32. NYI
31. OTT

Spoiler: The Rules for Eligibility

The Good News: We were 2nd last year!

The Bad News: Holy shit, we’re going to drop like stone.

How far?

Definitely Graduated or Gone:
1) Luke
3) Holtz
5) Mukhamadullin
8) Bahl
9) Foote (aged out)
13) Okhotyuk

Very Likely Graduated, but Maybe Not!
(Often these lists often don’t reflect more recent NHL roster additions and/or Wheeler is sometimes weird about this.)
2) Nemec

Obviously whether or not Nemec is still included will have a big effect on our rankings.

Even without Nemec we won’t completely bottom out.

He really likes Casey obviously, undersized defensemen are his crack cocaine lol. He had him 27th on his 2022 draft board.

He also likes Gritsyuk and his current torrid scoring should help.

Additions?

From the Feb 8, 2023 article:

The Devils’ prospect pool breaks down into four tiers divided as such: 1-2, 3, 4-5, 6-15.

Also considered were Spartak Moskva defenseman Daniil Orlov (the final cut), HockeyAllsvenskan star Nikola Pasic, UConn forward Samu Salminen (an old favorite of mine), Lokomotiv Yaroslavl defenseman Daniil Misyul, Providence College senior Patrick Moynihan, smooth-skating Michigan defenseman Ethan Edwards, Northern Michigan standout Artem Shlaine, and Ilves goaltender Jakub Malek.

Plus:
Lenni!

Wheeler’s comment from World Junior’s wrap up. link

Lenni Hameenaho (F, New Jersey Devils): Nice to see him flashing some skill in one-on-one sequences and playing with some real confidence. He danced a handful of defenders over the course of the tournament. He has built a successful track record at the pro level playing a very well-rounded game, but he’s got talent and it was on display back against his peer group. Finland’s best forward against Canada and probably against Slovakia and in the bronze medal game, too. Around it, as usual. Was particularly impressed by his vision. He made some NHL-level passes. Teammates didn’t connect on some of the plays he made for them. Smart around the net.

Cam Squires was #90 on Wheeler’s Top 100 2023 Draft Board. Daniil Karpovich made his 27 Honorable Mentions after his Top 100.

Still, we had three of his Top 50 Drafted Prospects (#7, #8, #34) from his July 2023 list.
Now we only have one of his ~75 Honorable Mentions (Casey) from that article.

Without any blue chip players we’re going to show up pretty soon.