Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[njdevil26]

fitz 100% shouldn't have brought him back he had a clear out when the contract ran out. i'm sure he knew more then we knew about the situation. even if he didn't he still would've known enough thats why he only gave him a 1 year deal. he took a gamble on this story coming out after the season ends and it backfired he should apologize for it. not only does he put the fans in a awkward emotional place he left the team in mid season incredibly weakened.

Since we are all on day 2/3 of this now I am trying to think more rationally. I would imagine McLeod told the Devils "I didn't do anything wrong. I haven't been charged with anything" and the Devils operated under that assumption with a way out if he does get in trouble. The one year deal... I wouldn't be surprised if there's a termination clause in his contract if he was charged/convicted of something.

We have heard that the Flyers tried to trade Hart. I wonder if Fitz had McLeod's name out there saying "this is hanging over the players head, he has told he he's innocent"

The Devils are not 100% free and clear.. The Foote signing makes less sense... but again his agent put a statement out that he was cleared of wrong doing last year... and now here his is being called in to face the music.

This incident also happened 3 years after McLeod was drafted by the Devils. So I would imagine the team has been very aware of this for the entirety of McLeod's tenure here since the original allegations came out.

 

[minibrodeur]

Game tn, players coming back, New New Jersey jerseys? Let's goo

 

[JrFischer54]

Since we are all on day 2/3 of this now I am trying to think more rationally. I would imagine McLeod told the Devils "I didn't do anything wrong. I haven't been charged with anything" and the Devils operated under that assumption with a way out if he does get in trouble. The one year deal... I wouldn't be surprised if there's a termination clause in his contract if he was charged/convicted of something.

We have heard that the Flyers tried to trade Hart. I wonder if Fitz had McLeod's name out there saying "this is hanging over the players head, he has told he he's innocent"

The Devils are not 100% free and clear.. The Foote signing makes less sense... but again his agent put a statement out that he was cleared of wrong doing last year... and now here his is being called in to face the music.

This incident also happened 3 years after McLeod was drafted by the Devils. So I would imagine the team has been very aware of this for the entirety of McLeod's tenure here since the original allegations came out.

prison is filled with people who say they didn't do anything.

you have to assume the worse and say to yourself is the juice worth the squeeze here. certainly it was not and in no universe would it ever have been. total bonehead move in bringing him back and i really wonder if he had to run this up the ladder to sign him. like did the owners know he was exposing them to this type of stuff? granted this is the nhl i dont watch much sports center or sports talk did anyone even mention this outside the internet? so the owners exposure is limited compared to a similar situation happening with the commanders and the nfl.

Game tn, players coming back, New New Jersey jerseys? Let's goo

are the players going to be asked about this? or is it just going to be swept under the rug and never mentioned ?

 

[JrFischer54]

View attachment 810103
View attachment 810104

part of the reason why i wouldn't want that rookie on the preds. i get the ceiling is incredible but you dont know what your going to get long term. i much rather have a proven capable workhorse goalie.

 

[HersheyBob27]

prison is filled with people who say they didn't do anything.

you have to assume the worse and say to yourself is the juice worth the squeeze here. certainly it was not and in no universe would it ever have been. total bonehead move in bringing him back and i really wonder if he had to run this up the ladder to sign him. like did the owners know he was exposing them to this type of stuff? granted this is the nhl i dont watch much sports center or sports talk did anyone even mention this outside the internet? so the owners exposure is limited compared to a similar situation happening with the commanders and the nfl.



are the players going to be asked about this? or is it just going to be swept under the rug and never mentioned ?

Act like nothing happened of course

 

[HBK27]

Specific knowledge? Perhaps that he and other GMs knew the likely strong list of suspects in this case...formenton was already "blacklisted' for awhile. Ottawa was safe enough to never play this game and never signed him. They did right in this situation.

Doesn't seem unreasonable to think GMs know something more.

You are asking me to provide me to provide proof about my view when you know I don't have full proof. It's conjecture and speculation the same way you are speculating Fitz has no special insight. You don't know either. My view is as reasonable as your view based on what we know but I am giving credence that the GMs and org had an insight to what was going on last 1.5 years, while you give weight that no info leaks around. I feel that is unlikely. Word spreads around.

Fitz signed McLeod to short deal in off season. Signed a bunch of bottom 6 guys (Lazar, Nosek - good faceoff 4th liner, Tierney). He knew what he was doing in that McLeod maybe out. We were all speculating that a season ago or in the off-season. I just wish he put the organization above this and didn't play to give McLeod and foote some deference.

Ownership and Fitz rushed out a press conference two days ago to pat himself on the back on the heels that players were taking leaves (Carter hart, dube). Seems like they knew things coming.

And just a small fan level reason why this sucks.

Some fans have to explain to their kids why two players are not on the team. You cant tell a 10 year old fan who is big on the team the full reason why McLeod is out. What about a 13 year old?. It's not like she didn't see cal Foote on tv either.

I have 3 girls and they are all fans of this team. I'm a season ticket holder and pissed that this gm put up this team in a situation like this.

It is a problem with how the team handled the situation. You can belittle my view but it isn't unreasonable to put some blame with Fitz handling it last 2 years.

I personally do not have a problem with how Fitz handled things with this situation, but I understand why you and others do. In hindsight, I'm not sure there was necessarily a perfect way to handle it, but I also don't believe that pre-emptively getting rid of someone because they may be under investigation and eventually charged is the way to go either.

Not sure if you believe that Fitz knew it was a foregone conclusion that charges would be brought...or merely a possibility, or if that difference even matters to you. I personally think it was the latter. Really tough to speculate as to what odds Fitz actually through charges would be brought. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the London police originally declined to bring charges? Was that because they didn't think a crime was committed, didn't think they'd be able to prove a crime was committed, incompetence, interference/influence from Team Canada? Tough to say, though there was always the possibility that charges might not have come from this 2nd round of investigation as these types of cases are generally he said/she said and difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

I do agree though that Fitz had to know to a certain extent more than the general public. I'm sure there were some general rumors about the situation within hockey circles, though who knows how credible any of those were. At the very least, I would think he had a very candid conversation with McLeod about his involvement and getting his side of the story. I mean, we've seen the stories about how Fitz is around the players/locker room quite a bit - I would find it strange if he didn't ask McLeod about it. Who knows what the response would've been - he could've declined to say anything since he's facing pending legal action (which would've been a huge red flag), flat out lied to Fitz about his involvement and/or details of that night or maybe even told his side of the story in which he honestly believed the alleged victim was a willing participant throughout that night. I understand why a lot of people want to discount that last option, particularly when reading about the alleged incidents and full well knowing that only a small number of accusations are false, but it is not an impossibility (nor some road I want to go down further). But yes, I think it's fair to believe that Fitz had a bit more insight into this situation, though who knows where that was leading him or how accurate any additional information he had was.

I personally had a good conversation with my 15-year old last night about this situation (we had a 90 minute round trip car ride) and others. He's at an age though where we can talk about some of the alleged details of the case and use it as springboard for advice on how to behave in the future. He's certainly not someone that would commit sexual assault or even participate in group sexual acts, but I also wanted to reinforce not putting yourself in potentially bad situations that could be life altering. Fortunately (or perhaps unfortunately) my 13 year old doesn't follow the team in enough detail to notice McLeod and Foote going missing, but I can sympathize with parents of younger kids on the situation, but that's part of parenting.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Yeah, getting back to the team itself, continuing to hang around during this next stretch is critical. At some point they've got to rattle off a win streak if they're going to make the playoffs. Might as well do it tonight.

The team is in rough shape from a personnel standpoint. You just have to hope Luke, Nemec, and Bahl are all getting a lot out of being thrown to the wolves they way they have this season and eventually Marino will find his groove again, we'll get a little healthier up front, and the team can actually put it together.

If they can do that and get some decent play in net, they're right back in this thing as a real threat come playoff time. Vanecek needs to call up Samsonov and ask him how he just put himself back together.

are the players going to be asked about this? or is it just going to be swept under the rug and never mentioned ?

They may be asked, but their response will be no comment. There are a host of legal reasons why it's a terrible idea for someone to comment on a coworkers legal proceedings publicly.

So given that, what's the point of asking?

 

[britdevil]

I can't even begin to imagine how bad McLeod's parents must feel about this.

The pride of your son representing your country, making the NHL, also your other son making the Oilers and contributing.

Horrible situation for them. I hope they stand by their son and help him whatever comes of this. He will need support to recompense for this horrific crime.

In the interim, I will hold out a small hope that he didn't actively participate, however unlikely that is.

Whatever the outcome, I think it's clear that he should never represent this franchise again.

 

[Triumph]

It must be mentioned that since this time (and following the Kyle Beach & Chicago scandal), Bettman seems to be extremely proactive and trying to set a zero tolerance standard with criminal cases involving any NHL staff. Especially anything that’s incredibly damaging media-wise like SA or bullying.

He’s making Quenneville/Bowman clear a high bar to be allowed back into the league. He’s doing the same for Mitchell Miller and Logan Mailloux, if I recall his name correctly. I don’t think he’s going to do any different for the 2018 Hockey Canada team.

Mailloux is back in, Miller will never get in, because it's been clear that Miller is and was unrepentant for the truly awful he things he did. While Bettman claims to have the power to instate him, it hasn't mattered because both teams who got involved with him immediately did a 180.

 

[HBK27]

Since we are all on day 2/3 of this now I am trying to think more rationally. I would imagine McLeod told the Devils "I didn't do anything wrong. I haven't been charged with anything" and the Devils operated under that assumption with a way out if he does get in trouble. The one year deal... I wouldn't be surprised if there's a termination clause in his contract if he was charged/convicted of something.

We have heard that the Flyers tried to trade Hart. I wonder if Fitz had McLeod's name out there saying "this is hanging over the players head, he has told he he's innocent"

The Devils are not 100% free and clear.. The Foote signing makes less sense... but again his agent put a statement out that he was cleared of wrong doing last year... and now here his is being called in to face the music.

This incident also happened 3 years after McLeod was drafted by the Devils. So I would imagine the team has been very aware of this for the entirety of McLeod's tenure here since the original allegations came out.

The 4 NHL players that went on "voluntary" leave are all in the final year of their contracts. I'd be surprised if any of those were terminated as I don't think the court case would even start before the end of the season, let alone a verdict be rendered.

If I had to guess, the NHL strongly suggested these players take the "voluntary" leave from the team to keep things from getting messy (imagine if any of these players tried to play through this) and forcing the team or league to suspend them, in exchange for not having the remainder of their contracts terminated (which legally, I'm not sure if the teams/league could do anyway).

What do you mean by "the Devils are not 100% free and clear"?

 

[Zippy316]

Yeah, getting back to the team itself, continuing to hang around during this next stretch is critical. At some point they've got to rattle off a win streak if they're going to make the playoffs. Might as well do it tonight.

The team is in rough shape from a personnel standpoint. You just have to hope Luke, Nemec, and Bahl are all getting a lot out of being thrown to the wolves they way they have this season and eventually Marino will find his groove again, we'll get a little healthier up front, and the team can actually put it together.

If they can do that and get some decent play in net, they're right back in this thing as a real threat come playoff time. Vanecek needs to call up Samsonov and ask him how he just put himself back together.

It’s not perfect by any means, but I think the defense right now could be somewhat passable. Our big issue is we need to be able to work through the rookie issues that are bound to happen as all the young defenders inevitably make rookie mistakes.

Samsonov seems to have fallen apart again so I don’t think VV should be taking any advice from him. They’re both making Washington look shrewd for moving on from both of them as RFAs.

 

[HBK27]

It’s not perfect by any means, but I think the defense right now could be somewhat passable. Our big issue is we need to be able to work through the rookie issues that are bound to happen as all the young defenders inevitably make rookie mistakes.

Samsonov seems to have fallen apart again so I don’t think VV should be taking any advice from him. They’re both making Washington look shrewd for moving on from both of them as RFAs.

Samsonov had a great game last night - shutting out the Jets in OT. Fans were chanting his name & he made two great saves on a 2-0.



Maybe there's still some hope for a bounce back from our boy Vitek after all...

 

[My3Sons]

I personally do not have a problem with how Fitz handled things with this situation, but I understand why you and others do. In hindsight, I'm not sure there was necessarily a perfect way to handle it, but I also don't believe that pre-emptively getting rid of someone because they may be under investigation and eventually charged is the way to go either.

Not sure if you believe that Fitz knew it was a foregone conclusion that charges would be brought...or merely a possibility, or if that difference even matters to you. I personally think it was the latter. Really tough to speculate as to what odds Fitz actually through charges would be brought. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the London police originally declined to bring charges? Was that because they didn't think a crime was committed, didn't think they'd be able to prove a crime was committed, incompetence, interference/influence from Team Canada? Tough to say, though there was always the possibility that charges might not have come from this 2nd round of investigation as these types of cases are generally he said/she said and difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

I do agree though that Fitz had to know to a certain extent more than the general public. I'm sure there were some general rumors about the situation within hockey circles, though who knows how credible any of those were. At the very least, I would think he had a very candid conversation with McLeod about his involvement and getting his side of the story. I mean, we've seen the stories about how Fitz is around the players/locker room quite a bit - I would find it strange if he didn't ask McLeod about it. Who knows what the response would've been - he could've declined to say anything since he's facing pending legal action (which would've been a huge red flag), flat out lied to Fitz about his involvement and/or details of that night or maybe even told his side of the story in which he honestly believed the alleged victim was a willing participant throughout that night. I understand why a lot of people want to discount that last option, particularly when reading about the alleged incidents and full well knowing that only a small number of accusations are false, but it is not an impossibility (nor some road I want to go down further). But yes, I think it's fair to believe that Fitz had a bit more insight into this situation, though who knows where that was leading him or how accurate any additional information he had was.

I personally had a good conversation with my 15-year old last night about this situation (we had a 90 minute round trip car ride) and others. He's at an age though where we can talk about some of the alleged details of the case and use it as springboard for advice on how to behave in the future. He's certainly not someone that would commit sexual assault or even participate in group sexual acts, but I also wanted to reinforce not putting yourself in potentially bad situations that could be life altering. Fortunately (or perhaps unfortunately) my 13 year old doesn't follow the team in enough detail to notice McLeod and Foote going missing, but I can sympathize with parents of younger kids on the situation, but that's part of parenting.

When my oldest was 15 he thought it was perfectly acceptable to stand around and watch somebody doing something stupid or destructive if he thought it was funny/entertaining. His basic premise was he wasn't doing anything and if someone wanted to do something idiotic he was within his rights to watch for entertainment value. I had to explain to him that's not acceptable both from a "you need to help people" standpoint and from a self preservation standpoint. it took a while but he eventually understood. Young people sometimes see the world in terms dictated by their peers. I'd like to think 15-16 is much different than 18-19 but for some the difference may be less than we think. As a parent you have to give your kids the benefit of your experience in a way they will see it as assistance not oppression.

 

[Rhodes 81]

It’s not perfect by any means, but I think the defense right now could be somewhat passable. Our big issue is we need to be able to work through the rookie issues that are bound to happen as all the young defenders inevitably make rookie mistakes.

Samsonov seems to have fallen apart again so I don’t think VV should be taking any advice from him. They’re both making Washington look shrewd for moving on from both of them as RFAs.

It was mostly a joke, but Samsonov had 16 saves on 17 shots and a 32 save shutout in his last two games, so that's what I was referring to.

 

[OmNomNom]

 

[R8Devs]

wrong thread

 

[Cheddabombs]

Finally, the Misyul era begins

 

[forceten]

Defense
Ready and up (6) - Marino, Nemec, Hughes, Bahl, Miller, and Hatakka.
Injured - Hamilton (until April), Siegenthaler (until March?), Smith (likely shorter term).
Option to call up Misyul? Vilen? Russo? to have a 7th on the roster.
This could be fine.

Forwards
Ready and up in NHL (12) - Hischier, Meier, Mercer, Toffoli, Bratt, Holtz, Haula, Palat (back), Bastian, Lazar, Tierney, Willman.
Injured - Hughes (1-2 weeks away), Nolan Foote (???), Tomas Nosek (skating?)
Option to call up Brian Halonen or Graeme Clarke or Shane Bowers to have an extra body on the roster, even if Nosek returns.
This group still is lacking. I'm not a lover of Tierney even with his "chemistry" with Holtz which is more Holtz than Tierney IMO. Willman is a hard worker but I'd rather have Nosek in the lineup.

Goal - we know this situation

It's not ideal, but having Hughes and Nosek back would be a huge lift to the forward roster. Russo in Utica seems to have a solid +/- and he's a veteran if we needed someone to come in, although he hasn't played in the NHL for us yet.

EDIT: I hit save and I see that D Misyul is recalled along with F Dowling ... I'll leave it to @Bad Goalie to opine but Dowling's a -6. not the greatest stat to use but ...

 

[njdevil26]

The 4 NHL players that went on "voluntary" leave are all in the final year of their contracts. I'd be surprised if any of those were terminated as I don't think the court case would even start before the end of the season, let alone a verdict be rendered.

If I had to guess, the NHL strongly suggested these players take the "voluntary" leave from the team to keep things from getting messy (imagine if any of these players tried to play through this) and forcing the team or league to suspend them, in exchange for not having the remainder of their contracts terminated (which legally, I'm not sure if the teams/league could do anyway).

What do you mean by "the Devils are not 100% free and clear"?

I just mean free and clear from criticism... not saying the team is guilty of wrong doing.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Did Craig Anderson come out of retirement and come back into the league as Justin Dowling? Bro looks like his twin.

 

[AfroThunder396]

So we had the Mexican Missile, now we have the Minsk Misyul

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Misyul is probably better than Foote anyway. Bum was a -14 in Utica, Misyul was even.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

While much stock shouldn’t be put into +/- anyway, Utica is pretty cheeks this year so every player on that team is probably going to have a bad one

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[TrufleShufle]

There also wasn’t a six year investigation for Brunette, whose accused crime was victimless since nobody got hurt. If these charges came out this year on All-Star weekend and the players were brought in the next day ‘wait for the evidence’ would at least be fair, after a six year investigation and attempted coverup? Don’t want to hear it.

There is a discussion to be had on how much the Devils deserve ‘blame’ but we’ll never really know what they knew and when. I suspect it wasn’t much more than us and the lack of a statement at the time from MM was a big enough red flag for him to get non tendered and just take a one year deal without even attempting to test the FA market at noon on FA day.

And unfortunately the Devils trying to prioritize on ice and hope the off ice questions go away or never come to light isn’t exactly atypical of any sports franchise, so I can’t really rip them for taking the same low ground of see no evil, hear no evil just about everyone else would.

The person I was responding to about "these types of situations" was clear about not talking about this one specifically, so I answered in the general sense in which I believe is absolutely true, and not talking about this specific case.