Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

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Whaddagoal

The Sheldon Keefe Era Begins
Nov 28, 2005
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People have been saying the Foote one was inexcusable but I can at least understand Fitz on that one more so because of his agent saying he was absolved of any wrong doing + Nolan's brother. That being said, he's a dime or dozen dmen, it was probably nepotism. McLeod I have more anger since he's been here for so long and there was so much smoke but a good playoffs saved him.


Also another thing too, why would McLeod take a 1 year deal from us when any other team would've offered him more term after his playoffs? I have a feeling Fitz tried to kick the can down the road until it blew up in his face and boy did it.

I mean, that is part of my point. Fitz knowingly took on this situation and it blew up. And it looks stupid as shit to me as it's a Trainwreck you see in advance. He sort of doubled up by taking on Foote... Although you can envision he was caught perhaps slightly off guard, but I imagine among the GM circles everyone knows the deal. Formenton erc.

Everyone talks, there is closed old boys club. For people to say it wasn't well understood and Fitz is like a common citizen. I don't buy that one minute. That's how my how my whole train of argument started. After I saw the claim that Fitz is like any other citizen and didn't know better like 10 pages ago - that bothered me. I don't like how our GM put our team in this position today, and I don't like the excuses that he is not at fault in any capacity.

Anyway the horse is beaten thoroughly. It is exhausting. I'll end my points on this since I'm somehow being casted in a corner on this.
 
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glenwo2

JESPER BRATWURST
Oct 18, 2008
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clever jab.
1706155319318.jpeg
 

guitarguyvic

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
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Your exact quote: "You keep saying there’s significant risk but no there isn’t"

I interpret that as you saying it is no risk.

You can paint me into a corner as being the only one with this view and I will stand there.

I feel this was not handled by our gm/team well for all the reasons I outlined in the many posts before over the last number of pages. It's a shame the team decided to go that way and sign not 1 but 2 of these guys to begin with.

I'm done being tagged. It's ridiculous that I have to go to lengths to even defend my view over the terrible handling of this situation.
"Significant" is the key word there.

Look, you can have your opinion. That doesn't make it reasonable.

You're not alone, but you are in the minority. One thing I keep seeing repeated is that Fitz must have known more about what was going to happen. I'm curious...what specific knowledge do you think the NHL GM's had that was not made public, and why do you think they would have this knowledge? Criminal investigations are typically confidential, do we have credible reason to believe someone with knowledge of it was leaking information to NHL execs? Is there any reporting or evidence to suggest Hockey Canada conducted any kind of credible investigation, and that the results of those were getting leaked to NHL execs?

You guys make these assumptions and then get defensive when it's called out as speculation, as if it's a given that Fitz had information that would reasonably change the calculus of his decisions. It's not.
 

Triumph

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Oct 2, 2007
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I think we knew the writing on the wall was there when Nosek came in though and McLeod wasn't qualified. The Lazar trade raised eyebrows too

McLeod not being qualified likely had nothing at all to do with this, 'bottom six' players are often not qualified now as teams don't want them to file for arbitration.
 
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NjDevsRR

Anything Can Happen In Jersey
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Apr 24, 2012
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I must commend our board for a very mature and civil discussion. This place is a breath of fresh air compared to other boards and the horrific comments I have seen on social media. We are a rowdy and different kind of bunch on here with our inside jokes and memes and colorful characters (and even imaginary characters, totally not looking at you @Bleedred) . But when it comes to serious matters, the majority of people on here are good folk. There are differing perspectives on how things were handled but everyone here understands the severity of the situation and has treated it with respect.

It’s been a really difficult season but we will push through. Better days are ahead.
 
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guitarguyvic

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
9,012
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I must commend our board for a very marture and civil discussion. This place is a breath of fresh air compared to other boards and the horrific comments I have seen on social media. We are a rowdy and different bunch on here with our inside joke and memes and colorful characters (and even imaginary characters, totally not looking at you @Bleedred) . But when it comes to serious matters, the majority of people on here are good folk.

It’s been a really difficult season but we will push through. Better days are ahead.
Yeah one thing we can say for sure is that this team is facing just a shit ton of adversity. I hope we look back on it and they were able to rise above it to some degree. But at this point, even if they miss the playoffs, it's gonna be hard to have strong opinions about how much better they should have done (barring some complete meltdown that puts them in the cellar or something).
 

Camille the Eel

Registered User
I dont even know where to start or what to say to this, but what you wrote is all bad and you should not write similar things in the future.
Don’t read it if you don’t like it. You can just block me if you like. It won’t do me any harm. My view is let the justice system take its course and see what we think about it when we have the facts. I feel very sorry for everyone involved. I don’t like to see peoples lives ruined but there has to be a reckoning for whatever happened. That’s the business of the courts and then of the league and the teams once the courts have acted. I am surprised that you can’t feel any sympathy for kids, because even 25 year olds still seem so young to me, who may face very painful consequences for something they did when they were in their teens or barely out of it. The situation is tragic.
 
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Bad Goalie

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Jan 2, 2014
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I'm sure the KHL will accept them.
Jake Virtanen ring any bells? He's another NHLer accused in a sexual assault case.

Upon learning of the accusation Benning placed him on leave pending the results of the investigation on 5/1/2021.

Then on July 25, 2021 he was placed on unconditional waivers for the purpose of buying out his contract.

Edmonton invited him to camp 21-22, but did not sign him. No other NHL team showed any interest and he ended up signing with Spartak Moscow of the KHL. Spartak released him for breach of contract.

He was found not guilty in a jury trial in July of 2022. Still no offers from any NHL team.

He signed signed with EHC Visp of the Swiss League for 22-23. After 21 games he he got into an altercation on the bench which turned physical and he was suspended. His teammates told management he was a bad teammate and they said either him or us and he was released.

He was picked up by the Fischtown Pinguins of the DEL for the duration of their season and the the DEL playoffs. They in turn signed him to the 23-24 season and he played 30 games and missed the last 12. I can't find out what happened, but he has not played since according to Elite Prospects.

Vancouver did not wait. When the news of the investigation was announced he was placed on leave. At the end of the season he was bought out and that was it for his NHL career. How does this compare with what went on with the Canadian WJC team. They have been involved in an investigation for years. and none have been placed on leave let alone waived and bought out.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame

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Aug 24, 2020
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I must commend our board for a very marture and civil discussion. This place is a breath of fresh air compared to other boards and the horrific comments I have seen on social media. We are a rowdy and different kind of bunch on here with our inside jokes and memes and colorful characters (and even imaginary characters, totally not looking at you @Bleedred) . But when it comes to serious matters, the majority of people on here are good folk. There are differing perspectives on how things were handled but everyone here understands the severity of the situation and has treated it with respect.

It’s been a really difficult season but we will push through. Better days are ahead.

Eh I think most of us don't take sports that seriously compared to what happened today, most of our fanbase is also pretty young too considering a lot of Rangers/Islanders/Flyers fans are grandfathered in while the Devils are basically the "new kid on the block". The past decade is also proof that this fanbase has gone through shitty times and still smile regardless of what happens in a particular game or season granted today was no laughing matter.

Yeah one thing we can say for sure is that this team is facing just a shit ton of adversity. I hope we look back on it and they were able to rise above it to some degree. But at this point, even if they miss the playoffs, it's gonna be hard to have strong opinions about how much better they should have done (barring some complete meltdown that puts them in the cellar or something).

It's basically their version of 21-22 Vegas, shit happens. Vegas won a cup right after that season of hell. It'll show them to not take nights off against bad teams or take for granted B2B's
 

bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
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"Significant" is the key word there.

Look, you can have your opinion. That doesn't make it reasonable.

You're not alone, but you are in the minority. One thing I keep seeing repeated is that Fitz must have known more about what was going to happen. I'm curious...what specific knowledge do you think the NHL GM's had that was not made public, and why do you think they would have this knowledge? Criminal investigations are typically confidential, do we have credible reason to believe someone with knowledge of it was leaking information to NHL execs? Is there any reporting or evidence to suggest Hockey Canada conducted any kind of credible investigation, and that the results of those were getting leaked to NHL execs?

You guys make these assumptions and then get defensive when it's called out as speculation, as if it's a given that Fitz had information that would reasonably change the calculus of his decisions. It's not.
There's a circle and people talk within it. Everyone on the team knew who was involved. You think they didn't tell anyone outside of the team? It didn't spread beyond that? I find it hard to believe Fitz had no inkling this could happen, given everyone in hockey knew Formenton would be one of the perpetrators. No one needed information "from the investigation" to know that. Fitz really didn't think this would be a possibility with Mcleod and Foote? Seriously? I think he likely knew they were on the shortlist and just didn't care - all he cared about was the on-ice product. And a dash of nepotism for Foote.

Is it speculation? Yeah, because there isn't proof of what Fitz did or didn't know because we can't read his mind and he's never going to say. But it's reasoned speculation, looking at the balance of probabilities here. Let's get real. Fitz knew something could come up, and likely more. There was already a ton of smoke.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
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Generally because those accusations have the most emotional filled responses. But Brunette's arrest for DUI had basically the same two responses, but less people get angry about drunk driving, so the "wait for the full story" crew weren't painted as monsters.

So basically, it always happens, it just becomes way bigger with certain subject matters.

But what's happening here is a lot more people are coming to the conclusion that the Devils did nothing wrong in their approach and getting lumped in with the random victim blamers/deniers.
There also wasn’t a six year investigation for Brunette, whose accused crime was victimless since nobody got hurt. If these charges came out this year on All-Star weekend and the players were brought in the next day ‘wait for the evidence’ would at least be fair, after a six year investigation and attempted coverup? Don’t want to hear it.

There is a discussion to be had on how much the Devils deserve ‘blame’ but we’ll never really know what they knew and when. I suspect it wasn’t much more than us and the lack of a statement at the time from MM was a big enough red flag for him to get non tendered and just take a one year deal without even attempting to test the FA market at noon on FA day.

And unfortunately the Devils trying to prioritize on ice and hope the off ice questions go away or never come to light isn’t exactly atypical of any sports franchise, so I can’t really rip them for taking the same low ground of see no evil, hear no evil just about everyone else would.
 
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NJ07102

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Apr 15, 2012
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He was picked up by the Fischtown Pinguins of the DEL for the duration of their season and the the DEL playoffs. They in turn signed him to the 23-24 season and he played 30 games and missed the last 12. I can't find out what happened, but he has not played since according to Elite Prospects.
Virtanen suffered an injury on December 28th in a game against Ingolstadt.
 

Bad Goalie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2014
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another devil of yesteryear
After NJ he played in Vancouver, which led to him playing in Utica with the Comets.
2017-18 25G/46 Pts/45GP
2018-19 31G/ 64 Pts/56GP
2019-20 34G/67 Pts/53GP and then the season was canceled.

The following year he opted for the KHL and a bigger paycheck. He has become a star in his 4 years in Russia. This season he currently has 38G/ 67Pts/51GP projected to score 48G/85 Pts/65GP.

He is still only 30-yrs-old. Won't be 31 until next September.

He was a teenage dirtbag. In January/2022, his 3rd KHL season, he pleaded guilty to "sexually assaulting a minor" in 2011 when he was 17. The girl was 12 at the time.

Obviously the KHL sees sex offenders a lot differently than the US and Canada. If he was still playing in North America at the time, I don't think he would have managed to stay on any team. The public furor would have made him a pariah. The guilty plea came when he was 28, 11 years after the fact when he was a minor.

I taught in a Jr/Sr High School for 35 years. I saw many a relationship between Jr. and Sr. boys with 8th and 9th grade girls. Like many kids based upon brithdays I too was younger than most kids in my grade. I started the 8th grade at 12 years old and thus, my senior year at 16. So, there were quite a few early developing 12 year old 8th grade girls when I was teaching and the 16 and later to be 17-yr-old boys who were later developing and younger than the average 11th or 12th grade boy. These 2 age groups were often attracted to each other. These boys were also shunned by the girls 2 years older than them in their own class. Those girls wouldn't normally date a boy 2 yrs younger than them. They were much more attracted to the guys who drove cars, had muscles, and grew beards or staches, had part time jobs and money. They could take a girl out without having to be driven to and from by a parent.

It was an issue I tried to steer my athletes , as well as the rest of the kids, clear of. It wasn't easy. A little dating was one thing, but serious teenage romances could become real dangerous when two teens think they are in love and you know what that can lead to, especially if their parents haven't done a lot to deal with sexual issues up front and personal.

Teenage pregnancies were never uncommon. It was never a good thing, but pregnant 12 and 13-yr-old girls was just the worst. Tough to try and be an adult with no actual connection to these kids and try to offer sound guidance. Again it's not easy, but I did everything I could with all of them grades 8-12. I taught Health so sex, drugs, and rock and roll were all parts of my curriculum. So, I could broach the subject head on in the classroom.

A whole bunch of those kids, now somewhere in their mid thirties to retirement age, have run into me at various places and during a short discussion thanked me for my direct delivery. "You told us like it is and it registered for a whole lot of us. We wish our kids had someone who cared as much as you did and did all you could to help us find the right path and let us believe it was we who came to the right decisions." The conversations go something like that. It does a person good to hear stuff like that. It's good to know I got through to a lot of them without the lecturing, preaching, or browbeating that so many adults do with kids. You have to treat them like they have a brain and can understand if you tell them directly, clearly, and don't pull punches. Honesty is the best approach.

I don't know what Reid's situation was, but I understand how some of these things happen with 2 immature kids who have not been properly educated. They can allow emotions and physical feelings to overpower their brains and lead to behaviors that can have devastating results.
 
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NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
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Brunette was in a f***ing golf cart in a part of Florida where they drive those drunk as a sport, I'm not excusing him but there's no way you can compare to the two
Unless he somehow ran over another pedestrian it’s not like in general that a DUI in a golf cart even carried the same risk to everyone that driving a full speed car late at night would.
 
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Bad Goalie

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Jan 2, 2014
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I actually dont think he is that bad. He has played 39 games this season and he's better than Tierney. We have zero AHL center depth. Shane Bowers is probably next up if Ruzicka isn't claimed.

He'll be a smart claim. Even his fellow teammate on waivers DeSimone would be an OK claim as a depth defenseman if Smith is out long term.
I'd do some serious rethinking on Bowers. The guy has 8 points with Utica in 32 GP. He is not an NHL center. You guys have seen Dowling. He is much better than Bowers and he impressed nobody in NJ. @Guttersniped has spelled it out as well as myself, the Devils haven't drafted centers and they have not acquired any for the Comets. So, now when you might need one there aren't any here. Fitz has drafted and acquired a bunch of players who were centers and they have been sticking them into the middle when desperate and have had some success, but not what you'd get from actual centers.

It's like all sportds the best kids all seem to have played the key positions. Baseball players were all pitchers, centerfielders, or shortstops. Football players were all QBs and running backs. Hockey players are centers. As they grow through the ranks they end up elsewhere in the lineups or they don't end up anywhere.

Why we train people at a young age to accept this is beyond me. I think most of it gets shut down in today's world but it's obviously not gone.
Not by a long shot!
 
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BurntToast

Registered User
May 27, 2007
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I can’t hold anything against the organization and Fitz. The world of law can be frustrating at times. I don’t know what they legally can and can’t do with “hearsay”. The NFL had guys under Murder investigations that still played. I remember when NBA superstar Kobe Bryant was arrested and charged with a similar crime. The only reason there wasn’t a trial was the victim didn’t want to take the stand. He ended up settling with the victim in civil court and he remained a marquee player for the NBA. I don’t agree with it, but until someone is convicted there is little organizations can do.
 

Guadana

Registered User
Mar 7, 2012
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About goalies. I truly think there will be enough one back up/1b level goalie


Kahkonen
Screenshot_20240125-132929_Samsung Internet.jpg

Nedelkovic
Screenshot_20240125-132826_Samsung Internet.jpg

Lankinen
Screenshot_20240125-132345_Samsung Internet.jpg


All of them are UFA, all of them will be cheap. And I believe VV will be much better with experienced backup, will be calmer and will play better, especially when he will hit the cold streak, team can easily roll on the new goalie with young backup as a tandem. It will be cheap and productive to use three or even four goalies with two experienced goalies.

Because even with great career, Ullmark will be 32 when his next deal will start. He will have Hellebuyck level deal and we don't know how long he will be on the level, goalies are not working well in nhl now after 32-34 years.
I don't think Saros is realistically available for what we can pay for him.
I don't think Askarov or Wallstedt are available at all.
I don't believe Markstrom, he is 34, he is on a bad deal, his injury history isn't good and Fitz should learn something from Bernier/Crawford/Schneider story.
Gibson is the same story, younger, but worser deal, worser injury history, less consistency in recent years.

I would be happy, if Fitz will trade VV+ for Vejmelka AND sign Lankinen/Nedelkovic/Kahkonen or Stolarz with Daws/Schmid as third goalies for rotation and more AHL starts.
 
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