Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[TheUnseenHand]

Actually it was a statement that extends beyond the board.

Obviously not EVERYONE. Dont be so obtuse.

Your statement, in my opinion, applies to the loud minority.

 

[glenwo2]

Just as a general statement not directed at anyone in particular but: Kinda weird that the only time everyone is up in arms over evidence and innocent until proven guilty is when someone's raped or some dude beats the hell out of a woman

I don't want to open a can of worms here but I'm just wondering what you are implying here IN THIS FORUM of Devils fans. (emphasis bolded)

All I recall from this forum is Devils hockey talk and none of the statement you mentioned here.

 

[Normal Devil]

Now the Mikey McLeod trade rumors are making a little more sense.

 

[Derps]

I don't want to open a can of worms here but I'm just wondering what you are implying here IN THIS FORUM of Devils fans. (emphasis bolded)

All I recall from this forum is Devils hockey talk and none of the statement you mentioned here.

Nothing really in this forum; I dont recall having this convo in here before.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

If I were on a jury, that's the concept I'd take into it. This is not a court room and that's certainly not the standard that's applied anywhere else. Like I said, I have personally seen enough over the last two years to know this is a guy I would not touch.

Picutres, settled lawsuits. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes here, and clearly there's enough evidence so

I’ve actively searched out the details and had a hard time finding a whole lot.

It obviously looks like something that should not have happened happened. Enough that you cut ties with anyone with any connection to this? I don’t know. Everyone involved (police, Hockey Canada, NHL) seems to have handled it horribly.

 

[glenwo2]

Right…not directed at anyone yet implying that some posters are seemingly fine with these types of actions.

Beyond inappropriate post and suggestion on your part.

Yeah.

I mean... whenever someone says he's not directing any statement at someone, it usually means he is but doesn't want to say.

IMO, if you got something to say to someone, then say it. (don't beat around the bush here)

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Best case is McLeod was there and didn't do anything nor did he stop anything. Still a piece of shit move. Worst case is pretty obvious. Foote sucks so whatever. I just hope one way or another the woman feels justice is served somehow regardless of who is involved. I think the majority of us, or those who don't automatically victim blame, kinda knew McLeod might be involved because he was only one of a very small group who never issued any kind of statement. When I mentioned this last year ppl said it didn't mean anything but I certainly thought it did then and obviously do now as well. Also, Lazar having an extra year made him seem like a plan B and then bringing in Nosek solidified a contingency IMO if McLeod was in fact in trouble.

I keep bringing this up only to get flamed the entire day

 

[glenwo2]

Nothing really in this forum; I dont recall having this convo in here before.

Well that's good.

But what's not good is making such a statement in the first place that IMPLIES things around HERE that are not true.

Also, calling people "obtuse"? C'mon man...That's just arrogant.

No one person's OPINION is better than the other around here.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I’ve actively searched out the details and had a hard time finding a whole lot.

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It obviously looks like something that should not have happened happened. Enough that you cut ties with anyone with any connection to this? I don’t know. Everyone involved (police, Hockey Canada, NHL) seems to have handled it horribly.

I mean we have to realize it's a criminal case too, you don't randomly take up a case as a prosecutor if there's no legs to stand on because the entire burden is on you in that court case. It's not a civil case where a he she said would win and juries are more likely to side with the abused in that situation.

 

[forceten]

Breathe guys and gals. We don’t need to fight each other over this.

There’s a lot that goes into the team. Everyone knew there was uncertainty about McLeod with the offseason actions. If you’re a GM you’re likely trying to thread the needle. Getting something for these players is clearly a consideration due to the Hart and McLeod trade rumors. McLeod was a 12 overall pick, a significant asset - it isn’t easy to just not sign him and if nothing came of it you’d be out an important asset.

And it sucks to “meet” your heroes. They’re people and sometimes bad people. I think we are all disappointed in this result and that makes me happy. We have nobody on here defending McLeod. We at least - guys and gals of various ages, all across the globe, all agree this is bad. And we are concerned for the victim, the image of our franchise, etc. not for McLeod.

Perspective. We don’t know the answers to a lot of things. It’s not good to speculate on these things. Let’s trust that those in charge had the best intent at heart

 

[TrufleShufle]

Just as a general statement not directed at anyone in particular but: Kinda weird that the only time everyone is up in arms over evidence and innocent until proven guilty is when someone's raped or some dude beats the hell out of a woman


We're really going to pretend this was just "suspicion"

okay lmfao

Generally because those accusations have the most emotional filled responses. But Brunette's arrest for DUI had basically the same two responses, but less people get angry about drunk driving, so the "wait for the full story" crew weren't painted as monsters.

So basically, it always happens, it just becomes way bigger with certain subject matters.

But what's happening here is a lot more people are coming to the conclusion that the Devils did nothing wrong in their approach and getting lumped in with the random victim blamers/deniers.

 

[My3Sons]

Well that's good.

But what's not good is making such a statement in the first place that IMPLIES things around HERE that are not true.

Also, calling people "obtuse"? C'mon man...That's just arrogant.

No one person's OPINION is better than the other around here.

You and I both know my opinion is better than everyone else’s. Just ask me I’ll tell you.

 

[guitarguyvic]

And you are projecting that it is riskless. You call my earlier posts stupid (albeit edit it away) but I don't see how you cant see risk with his moves earlier. You go on the premise he had no idea that this could be or if he did he judged it appropriate to take risk.

The team can lose real money from fans fed up of teams signing players tied to sexual assault. Or sort of looking the other way. In theory I could call my rep and cancel season tickets tomorrow. Sponsors could leave over bad reputational connection. There is business risk in the moves Fitz made to have both guys on team.

Team chemistry is now disrupted, season situation is even worse than yesterday. Depth is less. Chances of making playoffs lessened. Money lost.

There is real outcome from what just transpired today.

I never said it was riskless, so you’re starting from a strawman outright. In fact, I specifically pointed out that Fitz clearly saw SOME risk as evidenced by the contract length and trade rumors.

You are still projecting. Just because you might decide to cancel season tickets because of this does mean there’s a good probability that enough people will feel the same for it to ultimately matter enough from a risk standpoint. There’s inherent risk in every decision the org makes, it’s a question of how much and how it compares to the reward. I am very confident that the vast majority of people do not pin blame on Gitz for this the way you are. If I was a bookie, I’d place the odds of the blowback towards Fitz on this at like +5000.

It’s not a clear cut ethical issue. If Fitz decided not to keep McLeod around because he wasn’t comfortable with the possibility of this happening no matter what the chances were, I’d totally respect that. I can also understand why he’d go the other way, as he did. Especially given that he put in some contingencies for worst case scenario. I think the vast majority of fans and others see it the same way.

 

[glenwo2]

Gonna post what @NJDevs26 did over in ATL 'cause it's a good point :

imagine if this had come out the week of the outdoor game with McLeod, Hart and Foote all involved

Wow. That would've been an absolute PR nightmare of biblical proportions all around.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I honestly can't wait for next season. I'm beyond doomer status. I just can't take any more of this season. It's just too much to process. All the things are happening. All the bad things.

 

[Whaddagoal]

I never said it was riskless, so you’re starting from a strawman outright. In fact, I specifically pointed out that Fitz clearly saw SOME risk as evidenced by the contract length and trade rumors.

You are still projecting. Just because you might decide to cancel season tickets because of this does mean there’s a good probability that enough people will feel the same for it to ultimately matter enough from a risk standpoint. There’s inherent risk in every decision the org makes, it’s a question of how much and how it compares to the reward. I am very confident that the vast majority of people do not pin blame on Gitz for this the way you are. If I was a bookie, I’d place the odds of the blowback towards Fitz on this at like +5000.

It’s not a clear cut ethical issue. If Fitz decided not to keep McLeod around because he wasn’t comfortable with the possibility of this happening no matter what the chances were, I’d totally respect that. I can also understand why he’d go the other way, as he did. Especially given that he put in some contingencies for worst case scenario. I think the vast majority of fans and others see it the same way.

Your exact quote: "You keep saying there’s significant risk but no there isn’t"

I interpret that as you saying it is no risk.

You can paint me into a corner as being the only one with this view and I will stand there.

I feel this was not handled by our gm/team well for all the reasons I outlined in the many posts before over the last number of pages. It's a shame the team decided to go that way and sign not 1 but 2 of these guys to begin with.

I'm done being tagged. It's ridiculous that I have to go to lengths to even defend my view over the terrible handling of this situation.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I honestly can't wait for next season. I'm beyond doomer status. I just can't take any more of this season. It's just too much to process. All the things are happening. All the bad things.

Worst part is Lindy is gonna get a reprieve.

 

[Blackjack]

My six second 'this was consensual, right?' video has people asking a lot of questions already answered by the video.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Your exact quote: "You keep saying there’s significant risk but no there isn’t"

I interpret that as you saying it is no risk.

You can paint me into a corner as being the only one with this view and I will stand there.

I feel this was not handled by our gm/team well for all the reasons I outlined in the many posts before over the last number of pages. It's a shame the team decided to go that way and sign not 1 but 2 of these guys.

People have been saying the Foote one was inexcusable but I can at least understand Fitz on that one more so because of his agent saying he was absolved of any wrong doing + Nolan's brother. That being said, he's a dime or dozen dmen, it was probably nepotism. McLeod I have more anger since he's been here for so long and there was so much smoke but a good playoffs saved him.


Also another thing too, why would McLeod take a 1 year deal from us when any other team would've offered him more term after his playoffs? I have a feeling Fitz tried to kick the can down the road until it blew up in his face and boy did it.

 

[jkrdevil]

Re: McLeod he was already on the team and playing after the story broke and most people could connect that he was probably one of the players. The team probably figured the black eye was already there and hoped it would go away vs. raising suspicion of not re-signing the game 7 hero who was an RFA.

 

[mdj12784]

I honestly can't wait for next season. I'm beyond doomer status. I just can't take any more of this season. It's just too much to process. All the things are happening. All the bad things.

AMEN to that

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Re: McLeod he was already on the team and playing after the story broke and most people could connect that he was probably one of the players. The team probably figured the black eye was already there and hoped it would go away vs. raising suspicion of not re-signing the game 7 hero who was an RFA.

I think we knew the writing on the wall was there when Nosek came in though and McLeod wasn't qualified. The Lazar trade raised eyebrows too

 

[njdevils1982]

You and I both know my opinion is better than everyone else’s. Just ask me I’ll tell you.

f***!

tell me that's a groucho quote i forgot.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Philly's been trying to get rid of Hart for a few years, that's not something that started recently.

He stunk something terrible for a year, so they wanted to get rid of him. Then he turned it around a little, and they were supposed to be rebuilding, so they were hoping he'd have a little value in a trade.

 

[glenwo2]

f***!

tell me that's a groucho quote i forgot.

If it's anything groucho-related, I'm sure you'll find a youtube clip on it.