Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

And if McLeod wasn’t one of the players charged or nothing came of this investigation?

Better to be safe than sorry and oh well, guess he’s just collateral damage?



What evidence is there that the Flyers knew charges were going to be brought against Hart, let alone 6 months before they were announced?

Strickland said that's why the Flyers wanted to trade him last summer for that exact reason and get ahead of this news

 

[My3Sons]

Strickland said that's why the Flyers wanted to trade him last summer for that exact reason and get ahead of this news

As if the other teams didn’t know this was out there?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

As if the other teams didn’t know this was out there?

That's probably why he wasn't traded, there's no reason Carter Hart wouldn't have had suitors with how porous goaltending is around the league. You're (general you, not saying specifically you, lol) telling me a team like Edmonton or Toronto wouldn't have been all over Hart?

 

[Lou Bloom]

If the Flyers were trying to trade Carter Hart on the basis of they knew something was up and coming within the next 6 months, I highly doubt the Devils didn't know something either in regards to McLeod. This league is one of the most tight lipped but word gets around quickly.

If that's true than why would any team have been interested in trading for him? And why would they have been asking for a 1st+ and not have traded him for much less if this information was widely known around the league? I'm sure the knowledge he was under investigation contributed to wanting to trade him but the idea they have full knowledge of the investigation and his involvement doesn't track.

 

[Derps]

More logical explanation is that teams knew something could come of this investigation and protected themselves appropriately by only giving out one year deals.

Not sure why you’d automatically assume they knew something was definitely going to come of this. Do you think the police leaked that information to them?

The Devils were the only team to sign a player in this group of 5 to a 1 year deal. The others tried to trade their players. That suggests less of an ambiguity to me than it apparently does to you.

Quite frankly, it doesnt even matter if the team thought official criminal charges would come of this. In my opinion, there was enough smoke to avoid the situation altogether -- which clearly many GMs thought too since no one wanted Formenton or Hart. Like I said before, McLeod did not have a contract and businesses are generally off put by applicants that are under criminal investigation. Not that it should matter, but the fact that its a 4th center makes the situation even more mind-boggling. I don't understand the line of thinking here. They stuck their neck out for McLeod and I think they looked stupid.

I doubt the leaking was as systematic as I think youre trying to get me to say it was, but considering how big the investigation was and the fact that there were multiple investigations ongoing at the same time by different entities, and how the players were handled by the teams it's not exactly surprising that the NHL would have a rough idea of what is going on and where the investigation was going. People can pretend like these leagues don't have special status, but that's simply not true. They know more.

I simply don't believe that in July when they signed McLeod that they thought he was innocent and that bothers me as a fan.

 

[My3Sons]

If that's true than why would any team have been interested in trading for him? And why would they have been asking for a 1st+ and not have traded him for much less if this information was widely known around the league? I'm sure the knowledge he was under investigation contributed to wanting to trade him but the idea they have full knowledge of the investigation and his involvement doesn't track.

And yet they either got rebuffed or really thought some other team wouldn’t realize their trade target was under investigation? Just sad all around.

 

[guitarguyvic]

He was one of the guys who had a very lukewarm statement when initially confronted.

The PR problem I'm referring to is NOW. Not then. It is not nonsensical to take a cautious approach to both bringing back McLeod and taking on Cal. Something which Fitz didn't do cautiously for the team.

Most companies or businesses would be weary hiring people under circumstances that both mcLeod and Foote were in.

The foresight to get this team into not just singular problem with McLeod but also Foote seems bad business/gm handling.

I think you’re projecting here. You want Fitz to take an Uber conservative approach because the guy’s statement was perceived as fishy? That’s a pretty subjective standard.

You keep saying there’s significant risk but no there isn’t…the organization did not have hard evidence of wrongdoing. You’re making it seem like they did.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Our guy Akira. Hope he can get on a roll down there

 

[JrFischer54]

That seems like a terrible precedent that no team should sign a player during an investigation that hasn't even been charged for a crime yet, let alone been convicted.

I mean people get held accountable in the real world pending outcome of an investigation

 

[HBK27]

Strickland said that's why the Flyers wanted to trade him last summer for that exact reason and get ahead of this news

One tweet doesn’t make it true.

Really, you think the Flyers knew for sure back in the summer that Hart was going to be charged? How did they know that 1/2 year ago? And how did that information not leak during that time?

 

[guitarguyvic]

Well I mean he knew everything that we knew. He had a chance to get away from him in the summer. He knew if he brought him back there was a real chance of this happening mid season. He either figured it wouldn’t be during the season or he didn’t do anything wrong. He took a shot but messed up should’ve walked away

He knew what we knew. Right. And not a single person in this board that I can recall said that Fitz should not have signed him.

The only way this stance makes any sense is if you believe Fitz had more concrete evidence that wasn’t available publicly. Which would be mere speculation.

I mean people get held accountable in the real world pending outcome of an investigation

No not really. Typically organizations will take action against an individual if they have evidence that leads them to believe wrongdoing occurred. This is a totally separate process and standard from legal accountability, but it is not the same thing as taking action just based on “suspicion”.

 

[Derps]

Just as a general statement not directed at anyone in particular but: Kinda weird that the only time everyone is up in arms over evidence and innocent until proven guilty is when someone's raped or some dude beats the hell out of a woman

No not really. Typically organizations will take action against an individual if they have evidence that leads them to believe wrongdoing occurred. This is a totally separate process and standard from legal accountability, but it is not the same thing as taking action just based on “suspicion”.

We're really going to pretend this was just "suspicion"

okay lmfao

 

[HBK27]

The Devils were the only team to sign a player in this group of 5 to a 1 year deal. The others tried to trade their players. That suggests less of an ambiguity to me than it apparently does to you.

Quite frankly, it doesnt even matter if the team thought official criminal charges would come of this. In my opinion, there was enough smoke to avoid the situation altogether -- which clearly many GMs thought too since no one wanted Formenton or Hart. Like I said before, McLeod did not have a contract and businesses are generally off put by applicants that are under criminal investigation. Not that it should matter, but the fact that its a 4th center makes the situation even more mind-boggling. I don't understand the line of thinking here. They stuck their neck out for McLeod and I think they looked stupid.

I doubt the leaking was as systematic as I think youre trying to get me to say it was, but considering how big the investigation was and the fact that there were multiple investigations ongoing at the same time by different entities, and how the players were handled by the teams it's not exactly surprising that the NHL would have a rough idea of what is going on and where the investigation was going. People can pretend like these leagues don't have special status, but that's simply not true. They know more.

I simply don't believe that in July when they signed McLeod that they thought he was innocent and that bothers me as a fan.

I don’t think they for sure thought he was innocent either when they signed him in July, but I also don’t fault Fitz for not presuming guilt.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

One tweet doesn’t make it true.

Really, you think the Flyers knew for sure back in the summer that Hart was going to be charged? How did they know that 1/2 year ago? And how did that information not leak during that time?

I mean lol Strickland is pretty well respected

and yes, I think they knew something was coming down the pike. I don't get why that is so hard for you to believe?

 

[JrFischer54]

He knew what we knew. Right. And not a single person in this board that I can recall said that Fitz should not have signed him.

The only way this stance makes any sense is if you believe Fitz had more concrete evidence that wasn’t available publicly. Which would be mere speculation.


No not really. Typically organizations will take action against an individual if they have evidence that leads them to believe wrongdoing occurred. This is a totally separate process and standard from legal accountability, but it is not the same thing as taking action just based on “suspicion”.

All I know if I was Fitz I wouldn’t have signed him the risks far outweighed the gains and Fitz obviously knew something was being he only gave him a one year dear. People get suspended without any charges being brought when the investigation is over then they either come back or they get fired and worse.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Just as a general statement not directed at anyone in particular but: Kinda weird that the only time everyone is up in arms over evidence and innocent until proven guilty is when someone's raped or some dude beats the hell out of a woman


We're really going to pretend this was just "suspicion"

okay lmfao

What do you mean? Of course it’s suspicion. No one knew for sure which players were involved and to what extent until today.

What is wrong with you guys?

 

[HBK27]

I mean people get held accountable in the real world pending outcome of an investigation

How so?

And why should people “be held accountable” for accusations before the criminal/legal process plays out?

 

[Lou Bloom]

Just as a general statement not directed at anyone in particular but: Kinda weird that the only time everyone is up in arms over evidence and innocent until proven guilty is when someone's raped or some dude beats the hell out of a woman


We're really going to pretend this was just "suspicion"

okay lmfao

What is wrong with waiting for evidence and information until coming to a conclusion on guilt?

 

[HBK27]

Just as a general statement not directed at anyone in particular but: Kinda weird that the only time everyone is up in arms over evidence and innocent until proven guilty is when someone's raped or some dude beats the hell out of a woman

Right…not directed at anyone yet implying that some posters are seemingly fine with these types of actions.

Beyond inappropriate post and suggestion on your part.

 

[guitarguyvic]

All I know if I was Fitz I wouldn’t have signed him the risks far outweighed the gains and Fitz obviously knew something was being he only gave him a one year dear. People get suspended without any charges being brought when the investigation is over then they either come back or they get fired and worse.

Well yeah exactly…the risk didn’t outweigh the potential gain. That’s exactly the entire point here.

as usual you’re just arguing for the sake of it, it seems.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Brian Halonen has been playing well for Utica since coming back from injury. He has 7 goals and 1 assist in 11 games. He's listed at 6 feet and 207 lbs. I don't know much about him since he was injured most of this year but he had a respectable rookie season in the AHL last year. He might be a good call up for the 4th line if we need to tweak the lineup. He's playing himself into a potential call up. Maybe we have a Bastian replacement if this guy has a somewhat decent 2 way game and plays a physical game.

 

[Whaddagoal]

The Devils were the only team to sign a player in this group of 5 to a 1 year deal. The others tried to trade their players. That suggests less of an ambiguity to me than it apparently does to you.

Quite frankly, it doesnt even matter if the team thought official criminal charges would come of this. In my opinion, there was enough smoke to avoid the situation altogether -- which clearly many GMs thought too since no one wanted Formenton or Hart. Like I said before, McLeod did not have a contract and businesses are generally off put by applicants that are under criminal investigation. Not that it should matter, but the fact that its a 4th center makes the situation even more mind-boggling. I don't understand the line of thinking here. They stuck their neck out for McLeod and I think they looked stupid.

I doubt the leaking was as systematic as I think youre trying to get me to say it was, but considering how big the investigation was and the fact that there were multiple investigations ongoing at the same time by different entities, and how the players were handled by the teams it's not exactly surprising that the NHL would have a rough idea of what is going on and where the investigation was going. People can pretend like these leagues don't have special status, but that's simply not true. They know more.

I simply don't believe that in July when they signed McLeod that they thought he was innocent and that bothers me as a fan.

I know I'm getting quoted/HFB ratioed up the wazoo here. But I agree with Derps.

Just so much smoke over the whole allegations for last year and half and we end up signing two guys. Seems bad to me. seems dishonest to me to say Fitz doing it out of not knowing anything etc. be fair etc.

If I was in same situation in real world I'd never get a job.

People/fans weren't exactly complaining about McLeod but everyone knew what was up as fans. It was cautious pessimism/optimism about him on team. I was never a big McLeod supporter specifically after the allegations a year or so ago, but I had softened on him given how good of a player he be since the playoffs.

McLeod and foote can go take a hike if they are indeed guilty of something.

I just don't like how this organization ended up with two of the 5 guys. And it doesn't seem out of pure innocence or good nature of team to give them a chance.

 

[Mgd31]

Brian Halonen has been playing well for Utica since coming back from injury. He has 7 goals and 1 assist in 11 games. He's listed at 6 feet and 207 lbs. I don't know much about him since he was injured most of this year but he had a respectable rookie season in the AHL last year. He might be a good call up for the 4th line if we need to tweak the lineup. He's playing himself into a potential call up. Maybe we have a Bastian replacement if this guy has a somewhat decent 2 way game and plays a physical game.

I was thinking that too. Try him over Willman

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

If that's true than why would any team have been interested in trading for him? And why would they have been asking for a 1st+ and not have traded him for much less if this information was widely known around the league? I'm sure the knowledge he was under investigation contributed to wanting to trade him but the idea they have full knowledge of the investigation and his involvement doesn't track.

Because it's still Carter Hart, you want respectable assets based on how good the player is for your franchise. If we had a signed McLeod for term, do you think this fanbase would be ok with just getting a 5th or 6th for him?

I mean lol Strickland is pretty well respected

and yes, I think they knew something was coming down the pike. I don't get why that is so hard for you to believe?

Same franchise that was absurdly quiet about trading a top 5-10 prospect being tight lipped about a SA'er on their roster they wanted to trade? Couldn't fathom that.

 

[guitarguyvic]

It’s a totally nonsensical stance. Why would Fitz sign a player if he knew that there was anything better than a coin flip chance that said player would be getting criminally charged and leaving the team halfway through the season? PR and ethics aside, it doesn’t even make sense from a hockey Ops perspective.

He estimated there to be some risk, enough to limit the contract to one year but not enough to avoid signing the player altogether.

This really isn’t that complicated to understand.